31 replies to this topic

[Troop]

Hi everyone, just a quick rant here

When i started playing in closed beta i knew that the 20 000 MC i recieved from geting the founders package would serve me well. I told myself that i would only spend MC on garage slots, premium time, and the ocasional hero (special mech) that i knew PGI would put in.

its been a long while since then and i still have most of my MC (granted i broke my own rule a bit and purchased some of those nifty cool cockpit accesories :-) i havent been spending my MC allmost at all for the following reason. I keep waiting for cooler hero mechs.

As it stands now hero mechs are just slight variations of the standar mechs we can allready get ( and in alot of cases you can mimic the build of a hero mech on a standard mech of the same chasi (maybe with a slight variation due to hardpoint differences)

What i invisioned when i started playing is that hero mechs would TRULY TRULY be unique... not another commando.... or another dragon or centurion but rather a UNIQUE mech alltogeather, such as a clan mech like the Mad Cat or Uller or ... i dont know... you know THOSE. i am still waiting for PGI to add some truly unique hero mechs for me to actually start spending my MC.

one thing i will never do is spend MC on a hero mech that i can allready get the chasi of with Cbills and try to mimic the build (or not mimic since alot of the hero mechs are nothing special)

Now i know there would be some complications with this and i know what you would say.... but complications only exist if WE MAKE THEM... for instance i know you would say that it would be impossible to get the elite proficiencies for a unique mech cause of how the game works since you need to unlock the basic proficiencies for 3 mehcs of the same chasi.. well that can easely be fixed by unlocking the elite and master proficiencies for a unique mech from the begining... people allready pay alot of money to get it... there is no reason to have the same rules going for these hero mechs. Say you add a Mad Cat, well unlock the elite and master proficiencies right away... since there is only one mad cat.... make it a fair MC price for both you and the customers and i guarantee you .. you will get alot of people spending MORE mc.

There is another plroblem players might flame this threat with... and that is that a clanner mech will have clan technology. again a problem easy to fix... since its stil beta anyway, you could forgo the clan tech for regular tech on these mechs.... ( and if anything add clan tech later .... that is if your gona do that at all ) so we could have say a MAD CAT that uses regular in game gear right now but it is unique in variant... chasii... and hardpoint loadout.

Ive had more to say about this but its allready geting to be a big thread so ill stop here for now

Just a though....

PS. ADD SOME DAMN UNIQUE CLAN MECHS SO I CAN SPEND SOME OF MY TENS OF THOUSANDS OF MC PLEASE

[Roughneck45]

Clan will not be here for a while.

If the Hero mechs become "unique" in the way you described them, they also become P2W in the sense that they are better, and only available with cash.

PGI is walking a fine line with the Hero mechs, but they are doing well with their current plan.

[Doubtful Danary]

Cant mimic that CBill boost.....

[Troop]

Roughneck45, on 26 January 2013 - 09:44 AM, said:

Clan will not be here for a while.

If the Hero mechs become "unique" in the way you described them, they also become P2W in the sense that they are better, and only available with cash.

PGI is walking a fine line with the Hero mechs, but they are doing well with their current plan.

you are right in what you say *sigh but i do think that its also going on right now, i mean out of the hero mechs there are 2 truly good ones in my opinion and that would be the flame and the deths kneel, these are 2 mechs that are really good and better than their original counterparts. And thus that wouldnt be much different from what im saying man.... a mad cat is really just a supped up catapult with extra weapons... but it would STILL be a heavy mech and would still have to bow its head to the assault class of mechs, so it wouldnt really be PAY TO WIN any more than it is now really.... these would be unique mechs with proficiencies unlocked ( since there is only one ) and the same ability to put large lasers... missles ... autocanons ETC on it like an existing mech.

[Warrax the Chaos Warrior]

Sounds like you are waiting for P2W mechs and that's not going to happen. Heroes will always be side-grades to existing chassis; you buy them for the c-bill bonus, the custom paint job, the cool factor, and the uniqueness. Hardpoint location matters, the only hero mech that currently has hardpoints that are too close to a stock variant to be really unique is the Fang.

[Troop]

Warrax the Chaos Warrior, on 26 January 2013 - 09:55 AM, said:

Sounds like you are waiting for P2W mechs and that's not going to happen. Heroes will always be side-grades to existing chassis; you buy them for the c-bill bonus, the custom paint job, the cool factor, and the uniqueness. Hardpoint location matters, the only hero mech that currently has hardpoints that are too close to a stock variant to be really unique is the Fang.

please read the above post i explained in a nut shell why it wouldnt be pay to win any more than it is now... you guys are acting like clan mechs would one shot any other mech.... it would just be another mech on the field man not a god amongst mortals.... just like you said yourself it would be a mech with different paintjob ... cool factor.... and some weapons and it would also happen to LOOK different ( different chassie like the Mad Cat or whatever)

[CDLord HHGD]

To each his own for the Hero mechs. You mentioned the best in your opinion is the Flame and DN, but so many have flamed (haha) against the DN that I wasn't sure if anyone liked it. I plan to buy all the hero mechs. I currently have the YLW which I like and the Muro which I hate, but oh well..... The hero mechs are great for what they are. Filling that little niche in there for many players. Are you going to like every one? Probably not. When it's all said and done, will you have one that you really like (if not already)? Probably.

The ONLY thing I think PGI needs to do is allow us to sell the Hero mechs back for the same MC as we bought them for. Not half, not 3/4, but FULL price (minus gear/mods etc). It is REAL money after all, not fictional CB......

[Norris J Packard]

Adjusting for CBill parity to MC, a single ("regular") Daishi will cost around 15,000 MC.

Have fun with that knowledge.

[SteelJaws]

If they still used regular armor values, a Clan mech could one shot another mech, but then so could some of the Inner Sphere mechs.

As to being a "God" on the battlefield, Clan would have an edge. Their weapons are slightly better, and their technology is better.

As to the Hero mechs, they are flavor. They don't elevate the chassis to anything that is above what the other ones can do, the hard points are changed and it gets a +30% c-bill boost, so if you don't have the founder mechs you can now have one that does. Which to me says that they won't do a jenner/hunchback/catapult/atlas Hero mech, as to me that would negate the coolness of a founder mech.

But then again, when Daddy needs a new pair of shoes...

[Warrax the Chaos Warrior]

Troop, on 26 January 2013 - 09:59 AM, said:

please read the above post i explained in a nut shell why it wouldnt be pay to win any more than it is now... you guys are acting like clan mechs would one shot any other mech.... it would just be another mech on the field man not a god amongst mortals.... just like you said yourself it would be a mech with different paintjob ... cool factor.... and some weapons and it would also happen to LOOK different ( different chassie like the Mad Cat or whatever)

P2W doesn't mean unstoppable, indestructible, one-shot kill button, win-while-afk. It's kind of a debatable term that generally means putting something highly desirable behind a pay-wall; something that gives a measurable advantage, even if the advantage isn't huge.

If a Mad Cat or clan mech was MC only the forums would freaking explode in rage and cries of P2W; the people doing the crying and ragequitting might be melodramatic, but it would hurt PGI's reputation and bottom-line in a big way. By asking for too much uniqueness in hero mechs, you are asking for something that is P2W.

I get that you don't see it that way, but a whole hell of a lot of people will. I think we'll have to agree to disagree on the issue since the only way to find out for sure would be if PGI actually did it; and I can almost guarantee that they won't

[Roughneck45]

Troop, on 26 January 2013 - 09:52 AM, said:

you are right in what you say *sigh but i do think that its also going on right now, i mean out of the hero mechs there are 2 truly good ones in my opinion and that would be the flame and the deths kneel, these are 2 mechs that are really good and better than their original counterparts. And thus that wouldnt be much different from what im saying man.... a mad cat is really just a supped up catapult with extra weapons... but it would STILL be a heavy mech and would still have to bow its head to the assault class of mechs, so it wouldnt really be PAY TO WIN any more than it is now really.... these would be unique mechs with proficiencies unlocked ( since there is only one ) and the same ability to put large lasers... missles ... autocanons ETC on it like an existing mech.

The Flame is the same thing as a 1C with some hardpoints swapped.

The deathsknell is basically a jenner commando, dropping the missiles for lasers.

Better than the originals is debatable with both of these.

Ilya is probably the strongest one right now, when looking at flexabilbity and hardpoint comparisons to the originals.

The Clan mechs will be awesome, don't worry, you will get to pilot one eventually. They just won't arrive in the manor you suggested. We will get variants of them, with various strengths and weaknesses, just like the mechs now, and you can bet that they will have a hero timberwolf.

[Troop]

Warrax the Chaos Warrior, on 26 January 2013 - 10:12 AM, said:

P2W doesn't mean unstoppable, indestructible, one-shot kill button, win-while-afk. It's kind of a debatable term that generally means putting something highly desirable behind a pay-wall; something that gives a measurable advantage, even if the advantage isn't huge.

If a Mad Cat or clan mech was MC only the forums would freaking explode in rage and cries of P2W; the people doing the crying and ragequitting might be melodramatic, but it would hurt PGI's reputation and bottom-line in a big way. By asking for too much uniqueness in hero mechs, you are asking for something that is P2W.

I get that you don't see it that way, but a whole hell of a lot of people will. I think we'll have to agree to disagree on the issue since the only way to find out for sure would be if PGI actually did it; and I can almost guarantee that they won't

*sigh* yeah your probably right how about this just give me the mad cat skin and otherwise give me the same hardpoints and armour value of the catapult is that fair enough for yah

Roughneck45, on 26 January 2013 - 10:14 AM, said:

The Flame is the same thing as a 1C with some hardpoints swapped.

The deathsknell is basically a jenner commando, dropping the missiles for lasers.

Better than the originals is debatable with both of these.

Ilya is probably the strongest one right now, when looking at flexabilbity and hardpoint comparisons to the originals.

The Clan mechs will be awesome, don't worry, you will get to pilot one eventually. They just won't arrive in the manor you suggested. We will get variants of them, with various strengths and weaknesses, just like the mechs now, and you can bet that they will have a hero timberwolf.

you have given me a glimmer of hope Roughneck i hope your right and one day i will get to do the start up sequence in a mad cat one of my all time favs.... with that all clasic white and red paint. I TRULY hope we will get normal Cbill buyable variants of those. (the only reason i sugested them as hero mechs is cause i noticed their only doing hero mechs of existing chasies and i thought of hero mechs as suposing to be different)

[Warrax the Chaos Warrior]

Troop, on 26 January 2013 - 10:35 AM, said:

*sigh* yeah your probably right how about this just give me the mad cat skin and otherwise give me the same hardpoints and armour value of the catapult is that fair enough for yah

Oh I have absolutely no problem whatsoever with you carrying your side torsos up over you head

[Duckwalk]

Good:
Ilya Muromets is easily the best hero mech. 3ac5, 3ml? 2gauss,3ml? Able to run xl (and almost 80kph) or a standard engine in either one of these builds? Able to perform direct fire role as well or better than any of other CTF variants.

Bad:
Hero dragons: bad would be and exaggeration. I consider both of these mechs about average. Some people prefer the hard point layout od the dragon with the ballistics slot in torso. Otherwise both seems to do their jobs fine however most people are horrible at dragons and unable to fulfill the true potential of the chasis. This is the only reason i would list them under the Muromets.

Ugly:
Both of the mech are truely horrible and outclassed in thier respecctive roles by variants in very way.
Death Knells - worthless until streaks dps is lowered in light fights (or netcode is fixed more) and far to fragile. Also no ecm.
Yen Lo Wang- no flexibility. Essentially a cent d without the ability to mount a fast engine ie. 135+kph. Relies on 60% of its dps being in a weak and exposed arm. Alos gauss rifles arguably better or atleast equal to ac20s makes its "uniquness" irrelevant.

[Ngamok]

Troop, on 26 January 2013 - 09:52 AM, said:

you are right in what you say *sigh but i do think that its also going on right now, i mean out of the hero mechs there are 2 truly good ones in my opinion and that would be the flame and the deths kneel, these are 2 mechs that are really good and better than their original counterparts. And thus that wouldnt be much different from what im saying man.... a mad cat is really just a supped up catapult with extra weapons... but it would STILL be a heavy mech and would still have to bow its head to the assault class of mechs, so it wouldnt really be PAY TO WIN any more than it is now really.... these would be unique mechs with proficiencies unlocked ( since there is only one ) and the same ability to put large lasers... missles ... autocanons ETC on it like an existing mech.

A supped up catapult with extra weapons is Pay To Win, lol.

[Culler]

The only hero mech worth having is the Ilya Muromets - actually does something unique with 3 ballistics in different parts of the mech enabling some great builds

Then there are 2 OK ones with minor advantages:

Flame - nice to have all the lasers in arms and ballistic in torso
Yen-lo Wang - you can put a bigger engine in and sport an AC/20 in the arm but the arm can't aim/move/converge for jack and it has no missile slots. The CN9-D is better in pretty much every way except for some very niche builds

The other hero mechs are unabashedly awful:

The Fang has all the goofy hardpoint issues of other dragons
The death's knell is a jenner with less hardpoints, armor, speed, and no JJ. WHY?!

Edited by Culler, 26 January 2013 - 11:21 AM.

[RawheadRex]

Warhammer.....Rifleman.....

[verybad]

Troop, on 26 January 2013 - 09:52 AM, said:

you are right in what you say *sigh but i do think that its also going on right now, i mean out of the hero mechs there are 2 truly good ones in my opinion and that would be the flame and the deths kneel, these are 2 mechs that are really good and better than their original counterparts. And thus that wouldnt be much different from what im saying man.... a mad cat is really just a supped up catapult with extra weapons... but it would STILL be a heavy mech and would still have to bow its head to the assault class of mechs, so it wouldnt really be PAY TO WIN any more than it is now really.... these would be unique mechs with proficiencies unlocked ( since there is only one ) and the same ability to put large lasers... missles ... autocanons ETC on it like an existing mech.

Ilya is a beast also.

Hero mechs that are actually BETTTER than the standard mechs would mean camo would be useless because it wouldn't work on any of the legitimate mechs, and there would be a lot less diversity on the field.

Heros get 30% extra pay, that's enough bonus. They don't need bonuses in fighting.

[Fitzbattleaxe]

I wouldn't have a problem with there being truly unique IS-tech chassis, so long as they aren't clearly better than anything you can buy with c-bills (but may be better for some people's particular play styles, which is why they buy them). A Mad Cat with IS tech would just get confusing when real clan tech came along, but if someone wants to buy a Hollander or something, it would give them something different, but not so different as to be P2W.

Edited by Fitzbattleaxe, 26 January 2013 - 11:38 AM.

[MajorBludd]

I can see your point but I really like the idea of each mech having a hero spec. I just with their were more details changed cosmetically. Clearly and gun details and the skin is new but I'd of liked to have seen maybe more minor things tweeked so it basically looks more bad *** then a normal mech with a cool skin.