157 replies to this topic

[Raidyr]

I start assuming premades when several things happen: they have a lot of ECM (particularly Ravens, DDC Atlases), they are sporting the same or similar camo, and they play more aggressively. If they kill 4 of us before we can even get one of their mechs critical I ask "premade?" in chat as a simple question. More than half the time I get an affirmative, either by way of a simple yes or an advertisement.

[Joseph Mallan]

Serapth, on 28 January 2013 - 11:17 AM, said:

No, I generally call them on it in the public chat channel.

A, B, C and D... are you going to join us, or just wait for the fodder to die off? Pretty much 100% of the time they start moving instantly after.

Interesting? Wouldn't you like to wait to find out where the enemy is and move in force against them? unless you are a Scout Mech, then you are kinda expected to stick your neck out.

[Havyek]

Triordinant, on 28 January 2013 - 11:03 AM, said:

The best way to kill the boogeyman is to have a PUG-only, premade-free queue. You can't mistake PUGs for premades if you KNOW there are no premades in your queue.

Then we'll just be getting more QQ threads about how the MM is failing and pre-mades are making it into the PUG queue, or how people are waiting until they're in game and then joining TS channels or some nonsense.

Never underestimate people's abilities to make up excuses for why nothing is their fault.

[Raidyr]

BDU Havoc, on 28 January 2013 - 11:27 AM, said:

Then we'll just be getting more QQ threads about how the MM is failing and pre-mades are making it into the PUG queue, or how people are waiting until they're in game and then joining TS channels or some nonsense.

Never underestimate people's abilities to make up excuses for why nothing is their fault.

It's very rarely people blaming premades for everything and more that having one team with 4 people on voice comms is better than a team with no one on voice comms. It's a pretty legitimate complaint, and this is coming from someone who often 4 mans.

[Tarman]

BDU Havoc, on 28 January 2013 - 11:27 AM, said:

Then we'll just be getting more QQ threads about how the MM is failing and pre-mades are making it into the PUG queue, or how people are waiting until they're in game and then joining TS channels or some nonsense.

Never underestimate people's abilities to make up excuses for why nothing is their fault.

Now you're simply being bitter. You're not even helping yourself dude.

[Grand Ayatollah Kerensky]

I love coming across 4 man groups who type their clan URL into chat and then goon stomping them into dust.

[Vlad Ward]

Tarman, on 28 January 2013 - 11:28 AM, said:

Now you're simply being bitter. You're not even helping yourself dude.

If you want to see bitter, you should see the Corps who refuse to do 8-mans because killing Atlases is hard.

[Serapth]

Joseph Mallan, on 28 January 2013 - 11:25 AM, said:

Interesting? Wouldn't you like to wait to find out where the enemy is and move in force against them? unless you are a Scout Mech, then you are kinda expected to stick your neck out.

I almost never ride scout mechs. I generally drop in a medium like an 8ML HBK, which needs to stay with the pack, in my Flame ( as a scout hunter now that netcode works ), otherwise I'm in an Assault mech.

[Havyek]

Tarman, on 28 January 2013 - 11:08 AM, said:

Guy, I appreciate your passion for the game, but you're taking your unit-based gaming WAY too seriously; you're looking at it from a dirtside perspective only. OFC heroes die alone, puggers know that too, except for the rookies, and the supercasuals who don't care. But dial out a level. If you chase off new players and crappy casuals with an elitist attitude, your playerbase is going to be far too small to hold up the rest of making this game. Not many folks want to game with people that hate them merely for existing, let alone trying to lurn2pilot.

If you want to talk tired of hearing things, how about OMG PUGS DONT WANT TO PLAY AS A TEAM. This is simply not true. If you don't play with the seven blues on your side ofc you die, only a Leeroy doesn't know that and you can't save them. Puggers are just not playing as a team with the same dudes every match, for plenty of valid reasons that have been gone over billions of times. Pugs are harder because of the randomness but if you don't take that into account when you pug then you shouldn't do it.

Thinking that there are enough team-based players to hold up the entire game by themselves, well that's not true either. F2P lives off the cash of the masses, supplanted by veterans ofc but certainly not the main pillar of financial support. A constant stream of semi-casuals with a % that turns regular player, combined with a hardcore base, that's what the game needs. There's enough game here for everybody if we can reduce the asinine friction in the playerbase. It doesn't need to be dumbed down, it just needs to be matched up. Rookies don't need to face veterans till they've at least mastered weapon grouping, regardless of premade. Blaming people because they're new is probably not helpful.

I'm not trying to blame anyone for being new. Hell I can still remember when I was new and was terribad (back in the days of lag-shooting, which I didn't know about).
What I am sick of is hearing that PUGs want to play by themselves. I know some of them absolutely would so that they can just launch, die, launch, die etc etc. Others do it either because they are new, aren't affiliated with a unit, don't think they have time for one etc etc.

If I had been stuck in a lobby with PUGs when I first started playing on-line games in MW2:Mercs, I never would have met the people that I did that taught me how to play, taught me how to play better, and generally became some of the best friends I've never met since I first started playing with the majority of the guys that I'm still gaming with, almost 15 years later.

When I say "dumbing down the game" I'm worried that if the competitive aspect of the game is removed, there's no more incentive to play. How much will you want to play the game if in the end, the only thing that you're playing for is a "Good Job Player!"?

Not all PUGs are anti-team players, I know this and I've seen this. However from my experience ALL the players that are anti-team are PUGs.

See what I'm trying to get at?

[Triordinant]

BDU Havoc, on 28 January 2013 - 11:27 AM, said:

Then we'll just be getting more QQ threads about how the MM is failing and pre-mades are making it into the PUG queue, or how people are waiting until they're in game and then joining TS channels or some nonsense.

Better that than all premades getting a bad rap. It only takes a few taunting, sync-dropping, pugstomping premade teams to make PUGs avoid premades like the plague if they could.

[Joseph Mallan]

Raidyr, on 28 January 2013 - 11:28 AM, said:

It's very rarely people blaming premades for everything and more that having one team with 4 people on voice comms is better than a team with no one on voice comms. It's a pretty legitimate complaint, and this is coming from someone who often 4 mans.

no it is not a legitimate compliant. The Only ones with a legitimate complaint is those with hearing impairments, babies, and spouses who don't wanna hear them.

After that, There is no reason to not get on NGNG or ComStar. it's like saying I don't want to play against missile boats cause they kill me before I can reach brawling range. Seriously? Missiles are OP cause I don't want to use them? GaussCats are OP cause I don't use them. SRMCats are Op cause I don't use them. That is what I keep reading. There isn't a single thing being complained about that isn't available for everyone to use.

Serapth, on 28 January 2013 - 11:32 AM, said:

I almost never ride scout mechs. I generally drop in a medium like an 8ML HBK, which needs to stay with the pack, in my Flame ( as a scout hunter now that netcode works ), otherwise I'm in an Assault mech.

then I don't see why waiting with the 4 man would be a bad decision.

[Cranky Poed]

Wait for the SQUAAAAAAKK!

[Jel]

Seeing 3 or 4 mechs keeping together and not shooting each other in the back (much) means either a premade or a random grouping of skilled pilots. TAG + LRMs isn't indicative of anything. Some pilots mount TAG no matter what. Most trial mechs have LRMs, and so that doesn't mean anything either.

One way you might be able to tell if you're facing a VOIP premade is if you can observe how quickly your opponents react to information being fed to them by their scout(s). It's really difficult to type out a complex description and target heading when you're driving 150kph+ and dodging enemy fire. Much easier with voice comms. Very case specific though, and I have seen some competent PUG scouts.

Another and perhaps more easily observable but uncommon sight would be the group of mechs that all have AMS mounted. With the age of Angel ECM, AMS has fallen out of fashion, but some units always carry it on their mechs.

Multiples of the same cheesy mech with identical loadouts is a pretty good indication of a premade.

[Vedic]

I generally play with a few people, but I'll solo a lot too. The thing is, the people I group with aren't really that great yet we win a lot - and importantly, I'm sure we win more than equally-skilled pubs would on the same team. What I've learned is: Our success is disproportionate to our actual skill level because we work together and share information.

MWO makes that last part harder than it should be with missing features like built-in voicechat and auto-comms (i.e., BF3-style spotting, target marking, etc.), but it's not impossible. These are what premades do:

1) Suggest a plan at the start (I see this a lot) and go with the consensus if you lose the vote (I don't always see this). Rambo did not drive a mech, and for good reason - lone wolves are dead wolves in MWO, especially with lag shield mitigated.

2) If you spot someone, don't ever kick the hornet's nest alone. Just call the approach vector, "incoming E6" and maybe "Atlas and cat" in chat and make sure your team isn't leaving you behind.

3) Stay close to teammates, especially ECM. Proximity = teamplay, even if people don't ccoordinate on purpose. Watch the radar and don't get tunnel-vision and chase that armless Hunchback around the map.

4) The other players are not bots; watch what they're doing and act accordingly. Doing this means you'll focus fire consistently (the biggest advantage for premades) and you'll make smarter group choices (a couple lights check out the backcapper, instead of everybody looking for themselves).

Running in a premade just makes you do the stuff listed above more often, and you win more often as a result. I really don't think the skill gap is always that wide in pub matches, but the premades use better tactics because the people talking in their ear is a reminder to do so. If you can find even one other pub to work with you, it's a world of difference.

tl;dr Premades win because they make decisions with teammates in mind, not because they're better at the game. Think like a premade and you will play a better game.

Edited by Vedic, 28 January 2013 - 12:05 PM.

[Tarman]

BDU Havoc, on 28 January 2013 - 11:36 AM, said:

I'm not trying to blame anyone for being new. Hell I can still remember when I was new and was terribad (back in the days of lag-shooting, which I didn't know about).
What I am sick of is hearing that PUGs want to play by themselves. I know some of them absolutely would so that they can just launch, die, launch, die etc etc. Others do it either because they are new, aren't affiliated with a unit, don't think they have time for one etc etc.

If I had been stuck in a lobby with PUGs when I first started playing on-line games in MW2:Mercs, I never would have met the people that I did that taught me how to play, taught me how to play better, and generally became some of the best friends I've never met since I first started playing with the majority of the guys that I'm still gaming with, almost 15 years later.

When I say "dumbing down the game" I'm worried that if the competitive aspect of the game is removed, there's no more incentive to play. How much will you want to play the game if in the end, the only thing that you're playing for is a "Good Job Player!"?

Not all PUGs are anti-team players, I know this and I've seen this. However from my experience ALL the players that are anti-team are PUGs.

See what I'm trying to get at?

And all pug haters are on teams though not all teamplayers are pug haters. That's just asshattism. It's not exclusive to a single group here, everybody gets at least one. The forum matcher is even at least.

From my experience MANY of the teamguys are playing for hardcore keeps. This keeps them hot in the pit, but it blinds them to the reality of existence of the game as a video game. It puts you too far down inside the game. A lot of the static you see coming from unit players revolves around a near-real piloting attitude instead of a fellow video gamer. It's this tone that reads badly to everyone else regardless of where it's sourced. From the outside, "Gruff Veteran Corps Pilot" can sound a lot like "Elitist Jerkface".

And there's nothing about the dirtside gameplay (besides an actual bug) that needs smoothing down for rookies; the rookies and casuals just need a playpen so they're not out on the tarmac playground with guys who actively practice for tourney dates. Nobody is taking away the complexity of the gameplay, just filtering the simpler players into a less-lethal play area. Then good players get better opponents, and crappy players either get better or stay in the playpen where they're safe and nobody has to deal with their Leeroying but other Leeroys.

What needs to happen is better information and training going to said rookies, and giving casuals a casual game mode. The TDM that many people want will cover this niche nicely for folks looking to blow up robots once in a while (some people do play games this way) without all the extras of true teaming and then therefore will stay longer and possibly blow monies on stuff they don't need; and us people who want all Mechwarrior alldayerryday will get our CW funded. IDW game with or against these people much myself, vet pugs want a place for rookies and supercasuals to go away to so OUR game improves in quality as well.

[F lan Ker]

S!

You get to know the names after a while who are making 2-4 man drops. "TS collectibles" are harder to tell. Goons are easy to spot as they always tend to SQUAWK at the beginning. If they are fakes trying to use the Goon war cry you will find out quickly that too. Seen also 8 man sync drops as they happened to be on same TS so no excuse got them out of that Whatever there is, after pressing Launch = Fight is on

[Jel]

BDU Havoc, on 28 January 2013 - 11:36 AM, said:

If I had been stuck in a lobby with PUGs when I first started playing on-line games in MW2:Mercs, I never would have met the people that I did that taught me how to play, taught me how to play better, and generally became some of the best friends I've never met since I first started playing with the majority of the guys that I'm still gaming with, almost 15 years later.

Nice for you, but it doesn't have to be this way even. You can use VOIP and join a premade and not know the people you're playing with, and they don't have to know you. Established units (Merc or House) can be more social than the average generic premade found on the unofficial Comstar TS servers, the latter in which I might group with people I've never played with before and limit my communication to mentioning targets I see but nobody else can, but mostly just listening. We don't have to have a social relationship to play the game cooperatively.

[Dagger6T6]

have you installed this module into your cockpit?
it helps alot especially when you not using any form of voice comms

[Greyfyl]

Team Leader, on 28 January 2013 - 10:53 AM, said:

I have never, ever, seen or experienced a 8 man sync drop. I dont believe they exist, theyre just another excuse/myth for solo players to complain about how much they suck at this game.

You don't play much then?

[SI The Joker]

Be the premade...

Na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-naaaaaaa