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Detecting A Pre-Made?


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#61 Joseph Mallan

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 10:54 AM

View PostTrauglodyte, on 28 January 2013 - 10:50 AM, said:


I totally see what you did there.

I'm really torn with how I feel about premades. On one hand, you should be able to play with your friends. On the other hand, it is kind of tough when you solo drop and don't know the quality of companion mechs and skills your team has vs people on coms on the other side.

Of course, the way to fix that would be to join a guild/clan (what is the term for MWO?) myself. But, without tags, I've got NO idea who is any good so I could just as easily be joining a crew full of bads like those that I solo drop along side.

Damn that catch 22!

When I Pug I don't worry how the team does over all. I will play my level best, and do everything I can to help the team win. But at the end of the match I can only be responsible for my actions on the field. So If my side looses and I have some kills and assists, I did my job and can retire to the Mechbay happy.

#62 Bguk

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 10:57 AM

View PostTeam Leader, on 28 January 2013 - 10:53 AM, said:

I have never, ever, seen or experienced a 8 man sync drop. I dont believe they exist, theyre just another excuse/myth for solo players to complain about how much they suck at this game.


I disagree. They most likely do occur, anything is possible. It's the percentage of times they occur that I have a problem with. Some would have you believe it's 1 out of 3 when it could be 1 out of a 1342. A boogeyman in gaming is more often built on perception rather than actual stats.

#63 Serapth

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 10:57 AM

View PostTeam Leader, on 28 January 2013 - 10:53 AM, said:

I have never, ever, seen or experienced a 8 man sync drop. I dont believe they exist, theyre just another excuse/myth for solo players to complain about how much they suck at this game.



I certainly have, but they are rare. Generally the type of people that sync drop are also the types that like to brag about it.

What I more commonly see though ( though thankfully, rarely ), is 4 people on my team DC, the result of a bad sync drop. These people are the lowest of the low and should have their manhood removed and used as a suppository.

#64 RavenX11R6

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 11:02 AM

i dont have anything against dropping with or against premades. i drop most of the time with a friend. doesnt mean we xoordinate well all the time.... and some premades still suck. in the end its about whos better im not much of a stat freak. i find pugs to be a fun challenge and as long as we dont get steamrolled in the first 2min i usually learn something really cool.

#65 Particle Man

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 11:02 AM

So OP, If you knew beforehand that they were a premade, what then? What would this info tell you and cause you to do?


unfortunately it isnt the teams, in a team game, that are a problem in this game. The problem comes from those that refuse to play a team game as a team and then cry on the forums about how it's unfair that it's hard to win a team game while playing solo

#66 Joseph Mallan

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 11:03 AM

View PostSerapth, on 28 January 2013 - 10:57 AM, said:



I certainly have, but they are rare. Generally the type of people that sync drop are also the types that like to brag about it.

What I more commonly see though ( though thankfully, rarely ), is 4 people on my team DC, the result of a bad sync drop. These people are the lowest of the low and should have their manhood removed and used as a suppository.

yeah. Murphy's doesn't try to sync drop. But we do occasionally drop opposite each other, and we try desperately to kill each other! One match we did anda PUG on my side offered to stay back at base and defend... then threw in something like, Cause these guys know each other. I was hurt, cause I wanted to try a true base defense as I thought was being suggested. :)

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 28 January 2013 - 11:04 AM.


#67 Bguk

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 11:03 AM

Wait, I just realized I was wrong. There is one definitive way to detect a premade on your side. Ask the other 1/2/3/7 guys you just grouped with if they're a premade. Sorry for the confusion.

#68 Triordinant

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 11:03 AM

View PostBguk, on 28 January 2013 - 10:57 AM, said:


A boogeyman in gaming is more often built on perception rather than actual stats.



The best way to kill the boogeyman is to have a PUG-only, premade-free queue. You can't mistake PUGs for premades if you KNOW there are no premades in your queue.

#69 Vlad Ward

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 11:04 AM

Randomly matching 3-4 good PUGs together works out almost entirely the same as running across a 4-man in the PUG queue.

As the number of good PUGs rises (which it does over time), so (ironically) does the perception of the number of premades.

End result? Pugs beating on Pugs complaining about other Pugs. The only premades you see in the 4-man queue these days fall into 1 of 2 categories:

1) Good premade players who don't have a full 8 in their TS3 roster and are just dicking around, usually grinding XP or c-bills for Mechs they don't use much. These typically don't even bother calling targets or coordinating between themselves. I know my personal strategy in 4-mans is "Throttle forward and shoot anything that moves".

2) Bad premade players who aren't cut out for the 8v8 queue and take out their frustration on PUGs. While this situation best represents the community-painted picture of "Premades", it's important to realize that these players are generally really bad, so their overall advantage over PUGs is minimal. On top of that, these types generally hate anything they consider "Cheese", since that's clearly the only thing that can beat them in the 8v8 queue, so they're not actually running many RVN-3Ls or AS7-D-DCs.

#70 Bguk

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 11:05 AM

View PostTriordinant, on 28 January 2013 - 11:03 AM, said:

The best way to kill the boogeyman is to have a PUG-only, premade-free queue. You can't mistake PUGs for premades if you KNOW there are no premades in your queue.


Yes, that would work. Now the best part could definitely be "discussed".

#71 Joseph Mallan

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 11:05 AM

View PostTriordinant, on 28 January 2013 - 11:03 AM, said:


The best way to kill the boogeyman is to have a PUG-only, premade-free queue. You can't mistake PUGs for premades if you KNOW there are no premades in your queue.

Funny All my Boogiemen were killed by my growing up.
... just sayin'.

#72 Joe Mallad

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 11:07 AM

All I have to say is what does it really matter anymore? We all know pre-mades take part in pug games. The problem with it is... The pugs seem to think that pre-mades should not be in or are not allowed to play in the pug type games. If pre-mades were not allowed or were not supposed to play in pug games, PGI would have just made it that anyone teaming up in a 4 man would be pared with another 4 man and set against 2 other 4 man or an 8 man team. If pre-mades had no
Business being in pug games, PGI would have Mage the pug style game only accessible to pugs and the system would only pare 8 single players against 8 single players. But then the pugs would complain again that there is no one cooperating. Can we let the pre-made sneaking into pug games debate die already. Yes we pre mades do it from time to time.

View PostTriordinant, on 28 January 2013 - 11:03 AM, said:


The best way to kill the boogeyman is to have a PUG-only, premade-free queue. You can't mistake PUGs for premades if you KNOW there are no premades in your queue.
we had this once and all the pugs complained that no one else wanted to work as a team. Now you guys have some teams mixing in with you to help you get a win and you're still complaining lol

#73 Tarman

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 11:08 AM

View PostBDU Havoc, on 28 January 2013 - 10:49 AM, said:

The underlying attitude is I'm sick of people complaining about how pre-mades in a TEAM ORIENTED GAME are going to destroy it because people want to drop and play by themselves. NEWSFLASH: you CANNOT play this game by yourself and hope to come out on top.
You can certainly launch by yourself (as I do probably 60% of my matches) but you'd better play with the rest of your team or you will end up just another 'Mech on the scrap heap.

I'm sick of teamwork being treated like the Boogeyman. Teamwork is easier when you're either in 1) a coordinated group on your clan/guild's VOIP or 2) on the unofficial MWO TS servers (NA or EU) because you are grouped with a number of other people WHO WANT TO WORK TOGETHER.

The PUGs that anyone who runs groups or pre-mades or whatever you'd like to call them aren't looked down on because they are of inferior skill, or because they don't want to join VOIP. They're generally looked down on because they don't play as a team.

Do you think that an improved MM will cause new players to want to talk to each other, or follow the ECM Atlas, or have their LRM boats spread out so that they can cover each other if a ECM light jumps on one?
There are certain tactics that you can only develop and/or learn from working with a team. "Dumbing" down the game so that it becomes the PC version of MechAssault will be the fastest way to kill this project.



Guy, I appreciate your passion for the game, but you're taking your unit-based gaming WAY too seriously; you're looking at it from a dirtside perspective only. OFC heroes die alone, puggers know that too, except for the rookies, and the supercasuals who don't care. But dial out a level. If you chase off new players and crappy casuals with an elitist attitude, your playerbase is going to be far too small to hold up the rest of making this game. Not many folks want to game with people that hate them merely for existing, let alone trying to lurn2pilot.

If you want to talk tired of hearing things, how about OMG PUGS DONT WANT TO PLAY AS A TEAM. This is simply not true. If you don't play with the seven blues on your side ofc you die, only a Leeroy doesn't know that and you can't save them. Puggers are just not playing as a team with the same dudes every match, for plenty of valid reasons that have been gone over billions of times. Pugs are harder because of the randomness but if you don't take that into account when you pug then you shouldn't do it.

Thinking that there are enough team-based players to hold up the entire game by themselves, well that's not true either. F2P lives off the cash of the masses, supplanted by veterans ofc but certainly not the main pillar of financial support. A constant stream of semi-casuals with a % that turns regular player, combined with a hardcore base, that's what the game needs. There's enough game here for everybody if we can reduce the asinine friction in the playerbase. It doesn't need to be dumbed down, it just needs to be matched up. Rookies don't need to face veterans till they've at least mastered weapon grouping, regardless of premade. Blaming people because they're new is probably not helpful.

#74 Serapth

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 11:09 AM

View PostJoseph Mallan, on 28 January 2013 - 11:03 AM, said:

yeah. Murphy's doesn't try to sync drop. But we do occasionally drop opposite each other, and we try desperately to kill each other! One match we did anda PUG on my side offered to stay back at base and defend... then threw in something like, Cause these guys know each other. I was hurt, cause I wanted to try a true base defense as I thought was being suggested. :)



Well, to put it bluntly, there are a lot of complete ***** premades out there. I think boiling point came from all the 4xECM light swarms that were cheesing up the game like mad. The trend I noticed that was really starting to get to me, was when the premade was ON MY TEAM. I would see 3 or 4 mechs that would just sit on base doing nothing for the first 3 or 4 minutes of the match, until the pugs on the team got completely killed off, then they would go out and fight the weakened remnants. I saw a huge rise in this behavior when they changed the economy, and its disgusting to say the least.

After a while its pretty easy to lump all premades in the same boat, just like so many premades like to lump all pugs into the talentless cannonfodder mold.

#75 mekabuser

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 11:09 AM

The most obvious premades to me are the ones who just at the outset bee line it for the enemy base and dont stop. Iow, they roll out together, send the lights about half way with tag ssrm and ravens and 30 seconds later their assaults show up having never slowed down once and pound the enemy to dust within 2 minutes.
pugs dont roll en masse straight to the enemy base without stopping, only premades and griefer premades at that.

#76 Serapth

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 11:12 AM

View PostBguk, on 28 January 2013 - 11:05 AM, said:


Yes, that would work. Now the best part could definitely be "discussed".



I think the cause of the tension, and the rise in these threads, is due to the complete lack of progress in these regards. ELO has been "soon" for two plus months, and from what I saw of the projections for the next patch... its almost all fluff and stuff they can sell. The longer they delay any changes to the matchmaker or even the team screen, the less faith people have that these solutions are ever going to come.

#77 Joseph Mallan

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 11:12 AM

View PostSerapth, on 28 January 2013 - 11:09 AM, said:



Well, to put it bluntly, there are a lot of complete ***** premades out there. I think boiling point came from all the 4xECM light swarms that were cheesing up the game like mad. The trend I noticed that was really starting to get to me, was when the premade was ON MY TEAM. I would see 3 or 4 mechs that would just sit on base doing nothing for the first 3 or 4 minutes of the match, until the pugs on the team got completely killed off, then they would go out and fight the weakened remnants. I saw a huge rise in this behavior when they changed the economy, and its disgusting to say the least.

After a while its pretty easy to lump all premades in the same boat, just like so many premades like to lump all pugs into the talentless cannonfodder mold.
Did you ever go over where the 4 were standing and wait with the enemy with them? You adding more strength to the patient warriors? it's what I did when I notices teams doing this in closed beta.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 28 January 2013 - 11:13 AM.


#78 w0rm

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 11:14 AM

View PostSerapth, on 28 January 2013 - 11:09 AM, said:

I would see 3 or 4 mechs that would just sit on base doing nothing for the first 3 or 4 minutes of the match, until the pugs on the team got completely killed off, then they would go out and fight the weakened remnants. I saw a huge rise in this behavior when they changed the economy, and its disgusting to say the least.


Fun fact: You could troll those idiots by just waiting with them.

#79 Serapth

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 11:17 AM

View PostJoseph Mallan, on 28 January 2013 - 11:12 AM, said:

Did you ever go over where the 4 were standing and wait with the enemy with them? You adding more strength to the patient warriors? it's what I did when I notices teams doing this in closed beta.



No, I generally call them on it in the public chat channel.

A, B, C and D... are you going to join us, or just wait for the fodder to die off? Pretty much 100% of the time they start moving instantly after.

#80 PiVoR

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 11:21 AM

if you see 4 3L Ravens with same painting on oppossing team - you know its a premade..





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