50 replies to this topic

[Lege]

I'm willing to give up pinpoint accuracy of lasers for real double heat sinks.
Long as gauss a pults are not using a 2 heat 30 damage weapon and the hits go to different locations.

[Krellek]

I figured I would link this because someone else had a similar question:

http://mwomercs.com/.../66086-archive/

It may or may not help the OP but it clears up specifics on how HS's and engines work.

[Splinters]

The case for single heat sinks is for cost, if your leveling a 2nd and 3rd chassis just so you can master the 1st one, it may not be worth it to pay the 1.5m to get Double Heat Sinks (DHS) if your only going to level the basic's.

Another case for Single Heat Sinks (SHS) is in assault mechs that are laser heavy since you can critical slots will run out much faster than in a light or medium mech. If your mech is running between 10-15 heat sinks, usually DHS' will have a significant impact and will almost always be the better option, but if your running in excess of 30 HS cooling capacity, you should use a mechlab to see if you can do more with SHS' than DHS'.

BTW, I haven't been shown any proof that DHS' are 2.0 cooling efficiency in the engine since November 4th patch, so I say they are 1.4 in the engine and external until I can see proof otherwise.

-S

Edited by Splinters, 29 January 2013 - 04:19 PM.

[Chet Beefstrong]

Thanks folks. I think I understand it better now.

[Wun]

Lege, on 29 January 2013 - 11:24 AM, said:

The only configuration DHS aren't better is in assault mechs.
Take an Atlas-RS with 4 large lasers and do some math, you will see single heat sinks are better.

Thats an academic exercise. An Atlas with XL engine and ONLY 4 Large Lasers is not a very good build. You can make better builds with both higher burst and sustained DPS using dual heatsinks and more weapons. For practical purposes there is no good reason to not use dual heatsinks.

XL engines in Atlas are just a bad idea. Most people strip an Atlas right torso to remove the heavy autocannon assumed to be there, which puts an XL Atlas out of commission quickly. Atlas has huge center torso armor, make them go through it to put you down.

Edited by Wun, 30 January 2013 - 04:11 PM.

[Alaskan Nobody]

Don't know how relevant it is, but according to the novels, they were called Double Heat Sinks, because they were double-chambered, not because they were double efficient (because even in the clans, not all DHS were double efficient - according to the Black Widow anyways >.>)

[Seth]

I like doubles in just about anything I drive. In an Atlas with an STD 300 and 18 double heat sinks, it dissipates 31 heat. I need 21 an extra 21 tons of single heat sinks vs just 8 tons of doubles to match that. With the two free spaces in the 300 engines, that requires 18 slots for double heat sinks vs 18 slots for single heat sinks (that do fit better). Play around with one of the online or offline 'Mech labs to test your build before spending any money though.

[OneEyed Jack]

SPencil, on 29 January 2013 - 07:23 AM, said:

I can't think of a build that wouldn't benefit from DHS off the top of my head, but it would be a build where critical slots were a premium, maybe if you had a mech with Endo, Ferro, and an XL.

If you run SHS to fit FF, you're doing it wrong. The weight return on FF is so small that it should never even be considered unless you are at max tonnage and still have more than 15+ crits open or 14 and are not at max armor. Even a 100 ton mech, the most armor you can have in the game, at max armor only saves 2.06 tons for 14 crits.

[Johnny Reb]

CapperDeluxe, on 29 January 2013 - 06:33 AM, said:

It may not be double precisely, but their effectiveness is apparent. I don't have a single configuration that uses single heat sinks.

I have one the Awesome 8Q it runs 2LL, 5 med laser, ams (1 ton) with a standard 280 engine. With endo it takes 23 single for a total w/ engine of 33 standard heat sinks a marginal but slightly higher efficiency with all slots used.

Edited by Johnny Reb, 30 January 2013 - 10:38 PM.

[UnseenFury]

Rushin Roulette, on 29 January 2013 - 06:30 AM, said:

Please note however, that the heatsinks in your engine are actually double, only heatsinks mounted outside of the engine are 1,4.

You mean all the heat sinks in additional engine heat sinks slots are real doubles? That's so awesome. Means my future Timber Wolf would have real 15 DHS.

[Jaded Jasper]

Only build I've found where single heat sinks make sense is something like this:

AWS-8Q

Not exactly a stellar build, but 47 sinks!

Edited by Jaded Jasper, 30 January 2013 - 10:36 PM.

[Johnny Reb]

Jaded Jasper, on 30 January 2013 - 10:36 PM, said:

Only build I've found where single heat sinks make sense is something like this:

AWS-8Q

Not exactly a stellar build, but 47 sinks!

Yeah that is crap mine is much better! With 33! Here is the build arse:

Aws 8Q:

Armor max, except left arm is 32, legs 63 each
RA: 2x LL
RT: 2x ML, AMS, 9 STD heat
H: 1x ML
LT: 2X ML, 8 STD heat
LA: Nothing
CT: STD 280 w 1 hs, 2 STD heat
RL: 2 STD heat
LL: 1 STD heat, 1 AMW ammo
Endo
1 space left, with 1.22 efficiency! Doubles will be less. If you want left arm at 0 armor can get 1 more heat for 1.24.

Edited by Johnny Reb, 30 January 2013 - 10:54 PM.

[Seth]

Paran01ac, on 30 January 2013 - 10:26 PM, said:

You mean all the heat sinks in additional engine heat sinks slots are real doubles? That's so awesome. Means my future Timber Wolf would have real 15 DHS.

Only the heat sinks that are included in your engine are true double efficiency. The ones you can add to available slots do not operate at 2.0 efficiency.

[Jaded Jasper]

That's not gaining anything from single sinks though, as you can get 33.2 heat dissipation using double sinks and then better weapons to boot, e.g.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...dd96c589d933f7a

The wacky 47 sink mech does at least have better sustained firepower. But yeah, I agree something with large lasers is better.

Edited by Jaded Jasper, 30 January 2013 - 10:47 PM.

[Kmieciu]

A pure Gauspullt does not benefit from DHS. That`s why people use 2xGauss + 2xML with DHS to get 30% more DPS.

I use DHS even on my COM-2D (3xSSRM2+1ML), so I can run around inside the caldera on Caustic Valley...

Edited by Kmieciu, 30 January 2013 - 11:35 PM.

[UnseenFury]

Seth, on 30 January 2013 - 10:43 PM, said:

Only the heat sinks that are included in your engine are true double efficiency. The ones you can add to available slots do not operate at 2.0 efficiency.

So with DHS upgrade you can only have 10 real DHS? Additional slots in the engine are 1.4x?

[LtPoncho]

Nothing double about double heat sinks...

[Seth]

Paran01ac, on 31 January 2013 - 12:24 AM, said:

So with DHS upgrade you can only have 10 real DHS? Additional slots in the engine are 1.4x?

The most you can have that are true double heat sinks is 10. Engines with a rating of 245 or less come with less than 10 heat sinks. Engines with a rating of 275 or greater come with additional heat sink slots, but heat sinks installed there only work at 140% the rate of standard heat sinks.

[Flapdrol]

Rule of thumb, doubles are always better. Just because the 10 in engine ones now count as 20, that's 10 tons and 10 slots saved already. run out of space and have weight left? upgrade the engine for another slot and more speed.

only exceptions I've come across are the AC20 raven build and the 3x ssrm2 commando 2D, where heat isn't really a factor but weight is (endo + ferro). So basically, mechs with low heat weapons and low engine ratings.

[Rayah]

I've found DHS to be great on lighter mechs with very heavy weapons (thus very little weight for heat sinks as it is) so I use doubles to maximize my heat efficiency if I can only put on 2 - 6 heat sinks.

For example:
My Hunchback - 4P Is running with singles, because I'm not sure if the DHS efficiency boost can overcome the crit space, I also lose the crit space on the legs and torso because I have absolutely nothing to put in them.

My Hunchback - 4G and 4SP both run DHS because I have the room to spare, and the 4G can hardly function in battle without the DHS. I also don't lose the use of my leg crit space in these mechs because I can store my ammo there.

They are also great for mechs that only have a few small weapons, because you usually have the room to spare.

EDIT: Example

Edited by Rayzor, 31 January 2013 - 07:17 AM.