17 replies to this topic

[Blackfire1]

Customization is gone. The days of weight saving XL's and running with less then 10 heat sinks are long gone. There are no longer room to experiment, room to play, or ways to make my mech my own. You either run build x, y, or z. Otherwise your not using all your slots, don't have enough heat sinks, or can't move fast enough to mean anything.

ECM will get fixed.
Groups are already 75% fixed.

I miss the Mechwarrior of last August, because there was room for people to make a build that fits a play style.

Alrighty, I feel better. This has been bugging me for while.

[Gallowglas]

Blackfire1, on 29 January 2013 - 11:03 AM, said:

Customization is gone. The days of weight saving XL's and running with less then 10 heat sinks are long gone. There are no longer room to experiment, room to play, or ways to make my mech my own. You either run build x, y, or z. Otherwise your not using all your slots, don't have enough heat sinks, or can't move fast enough to mean anything.

ECM will get fixed.
Groups are already 75% fixed.

I miss the Mechwarrior of last August, because there was room for people to make a build that fits a play style.

Alrighty, I feel better. This has been bugging me for while.

Why is it then that none of my group runs the same weapon configurations, despite having many of the same chassis? YMMV, of course, but I respectfully disagree.

[Roughneck45]

No, customization is still there. FOTM mechs have been there since the start as well. First it was gausscats, then it was streak boats, then is was 3L's, now it is splat cats.

If you are a good pilot, you can still run whatever the heck you want and get good results. Ive been rocking Dragons since closed beta, with a mixed loadout, and doing great with them.\

That being said, there is always going to be a min/max situation for each mech, and 9/10 times those loadouts will be better than anything else you can put on the mech. Its just the nature of the beast for a multiplayer competative game.

Edited by Roughneck45, 29 January 2013 - 11:17 AM.

[Redshift2k5]

If you were running with less than 10 heatsinks, you were cheating. The engines are discounted to cover the cost of the required(up to 10) heatsink.

Mech variability is still very high. Fewer mechs can run XLs and get away with it, because it is supposed to be a very risky upgrade (high risk/high reward).

Are there cookiecutter builds? There always were and always will be. But there is still tons of room for innovation, and a brand new mech is coming out soon (Trebuchet)

[Fate 6]

Roughneck45, on 29 January 2013 - 11:10 AM, said:

No, customization is still there. FOTM mechs have been there since the start as well. First it was gausscats, then it was streak boats, then is was 3L's, now it is splat cats.

If you are a good pilot, you can still run whatever the heck you want and get good results. Ive been rocking Dragons since closed beta, with a mixed loadout, and doing great with them.\

That being said, there is always going to be a min/max situation for each mech, and 9/10 times those loadouts will be better than anything else you can put on the mech. Its just the nature of the beast for a multiplayer competative game.

This.

Although, all the other FotM mechs were nerfed in some way. I doubt there will be any changes to the Splatapult, unless it's actually a change to the A1. SRMs are all that's left for missile hardpoints. If they nerf those, I quit.

[Fate 6]

Redshift2k5, on 29 January 2013 - 11:31 AM, said:

If you were running with less than 10 heatsinks, you were cheating. The engines are discounted to cover the cost of the required(up to 10) heatsink.

Mech variability is still very high. Fewer mechs can run XLs and get away with it, because it is supposed to be a very risky upgrade (high risk/high reward).

Are there cookiecutter builds? There always were and always will be. But there is still tons of room for innovation, and a brand new mech is coming out soon (Trebuchet)

Trebuchet will suck unless it can run an XL safely or has 4 Missile hardpoints. For everything else, there's the 4SP/4J/CN9-A

[Mechteric]

So you hate having choice in how to build your own mech? Interesting...

[Taemien]

FOTM configs only blow away brand new players. Once they figure out how to counter it.. guess what? Another FOTM comes out.

Configs I've came up with in CB still work to this day. FOTM isn't nor have ever been a threat to me. My configs are my own creations and I do not need outside 'guides' to dictate what I use. Unfortunately not everyone is capable of doing this. Just keep at it, you'll find something that works.

[Grraarrgghh]

Yes lets make it huge free-for-all customization again. I miss extracting pubbie tears via my Swayback.

[Kurshuk]

I can understand what you mean. I don't necessarily think of it as gone, but most of my mechs are seasoned veterans and most are approaching master level. I see it more as a result than a change. Having played so many rounds with each of the mechs I own I know the flavors that worked best. I made an SSRM cat in CB, didn't like it. So I pulled the SSRMS and put on SRMS making that splatcats we see today. I've been running it just like that since back in CB since I don't like firing LRMS (I seem to close range when I'm trying to play keep away) so I generally just left it all SRMS.

But I think the biggest issues come from engine size and the number of advantages bestowed upon a larger engine. In the MW games it's an easy call to short the engine size, but in MWO you find a different dynamic. Since we're fighting real people who also want to win they tend to use tactics that work best. That means a large engine in MWO. The increase in speed (combined with until recently crappy netcode) made it very difficult to hit targets effectively when they were moving at speed. Additionally the torso twist and left turn happens faster with a larger engine.

Because the manuverability is so important taking the largest engine possible is usually the first step. Then from there you can customize. But if everyone is taking the largest engine possible then some of the customization goes away because you only have so much tonnage left and it's fairly easy to math the best number machine and put it into the game. Since the number of permutations are limited you run into a funnel problem where you have a group of weapons that make up the base of most mechs which makes it feel like there are less options to run with.

Try making a crazy build sometimes. Take a mech like a hunch and put a standard 200 engine in it. Take everything else off, then start customizing from there since you have more available tonnage you end up having more weapon variety and usually better heat control, but not always.

Kurshuk
Alexi.Kurshuk@gmail.com

[BigMooingCow]

Yeah, SRM's are kinda ruling the roost right now, and ECM has killed some old tactics (streakcat, LRMs in general), but remember earlier in CB when a group with 2-3 missile boats was nigh invincible? Remember Streakcats being a CT-melting menace? There will be times when there is an orthodox build that you either use or lose to, and there will be times when the balance is good. I don't think that's a reason to dislike the game.

I get your point that you used to have to have lots of cash to run certain builds, so it added a dimension, but I think the majority of players have agreed (and I admit, I am one) that balancing gameplay through the economy isn't a good idea.

More variety in mech builds is a good thing, but I think there are plenty of ways to increase variety without relying on a punitive economy.

Weapon balance will add a lot of variety. Right now there is lots of under-represented equipment. ERPPC, AC10, LBX10, AC20, ERLL, ERPPC, SPL, LPL, MG, Flamer, and NARC are all seen infrequently. Some are never seen.

Larger maps will make long range weapons more viable. There are few places where an ERPPC is in range but a PPC is not, for example.

Larger maps will also make scouts useful. Note I said "scouts" and not "light mechs". Right now light mechs are useful primarily as strikers to keep light mechs off the assaults.

CW will hopefully introduce more mission types, like garrison duty, capture missions, and asymmetric strike missions. With those different roles we'll see certain mechs and weapons become more useful. (Wouldn't it be awesome if only mechs with hands could accomplish smash & grabs? THERE'S a use for your Spider!)

The Clan invasion will not just double the number of builds, but it will force IS mechs into using weapons that can take out Clan mechs quickly. Expect to see a lot of high-alpha builds on IS mechs, so they can land a lucky crit before being whittled down by a billion SSRM6's.

Anyway, I feel your pain; I'm not too enthusiastic about MWO right now, either. (My beef is that I'm bored with team deathmatch. I want CW, cause grinding cbills is boring when I already have a few nice mechs.) But I think the customization will come and go, so I think you've got some hope on the horizon as they play with balance.

[xRaeder]

If I see a D-DC I know hes got 2 SRMs a Gauss or AC/20 and a couple laser weapons. Very few D-DCs run with LRMs.

Very few A1 Catapults run with LRMs anymore and are usually all SRM6s.

These are the most common Mechs in the game right now.

[Sayyid]

I quit playing because of the massive customization and the FOTM mechs. The game has become CODBFWOT with mechs.

[Zenehre]

My big complaint about this game stems from how the way ECM was implemented it neutered tactical diversity. Excluding the **** poor implementation day 1 of artemis death rain from the gods, pre-ecm you actually saw tactics. You had scouting, you had flanking, you had to stay out of the open or missles/snipers would strip the armor off your mech. Post-ecm all you get is a blob of brawler mechs marching in a nearly straight line, running into another blob of brawler mechs devolving into a giant *********** with no tactics or thought behind it. Some people people are happy its like this, i am not.

I dont really see the issues you are having with customizing an individual mech though, its just builds that dont shine in the *********** are sub-optimal - as well as pre-lag shield fixes speed was > armor for defense so you were forced into using the biggest engine you could afford. Now that mechs moving at speed are hittable again, you can get much more viability out of smaller engine, bigger weapon loadouts than previously.

[Jman5]

Customization isn't gone, you just stopped customizing. You're probably one of those people who has gotten in with a group of friends that talk about FOTM builds. Most likely they have used lots of absolutes in the past like:
lag-shield ECM makes you invincible!
or
everyone knows the only way to compete in 8 mans is with 3 raven 3L and 5 DD-C atlas!
or
Jenner is the wrong choice!

Here is a tip. Make a build without too much thought, but commit to it for 15-20 solid games in a row without changing anything. The first handful of games will feel awful and you will be certain the build is garbage. However, after a little bit, you start to get the hang of it. Eventually, you will wonder how you ever played without it.

Obviously there are a handful of builds that are dead on arrival and not worth trying like quad flamer stalker in an XL 100. However, for the most part, there is a lot more viability in this game than people give credit.

Edited by Jman5, 29 January 2013 - 12:41 PM.

[Chronojam]

Lunchback will ride again?

[OneManWar]

I have an Atlas I run with 2 PPC's, an AC/10, 2 Med lasers and an LRM-15. I tend to average 2 or more kills with it these days. If you say there's no customization, it's because you don't want to.

[Grits N Gravy]

In a way your're right op. The general push in balance since closed beat has been to make combat longer. If you want to be at the top of leader boards there are less viable builds than there were in the past.

Toning down the damage output has resulted in a lot of side effects which I feel diminish the game. Mediums no longer can be rigged to make effective solo light/ecm killers, nor do most have the speed or firepower/heat capacity to effectively engage heavies and up. ECM and the SRM nerf has neutered the awesome. Mixed builds are less viable due to all the brawling, double armor and low heat efficiencies.

The game has been made more susceptible to flavor of the month builds, because everything in a weight class is relatively equal in terms of damage output. Which is why people pile into builds which give them an edge. If direct fire weapons had much greater lethality, tighter bands of effectiveness, and greater stratification of re fire times, you would have much more diverse loadouts and more dynamic combat.

Edited by Grits N Gravy, 29 January 2013 - 01:53 PM.