108 replies to this topic

[Lightfoot]

Tennex, on 30 January 2013 - 08:37 PM, said:

the two SRM6s would need to be in chain fire. but other than that its probably a decent brawler. not as good as an A1 for sure. but still pretty good.

Probably true, but the 2X does a monsterous Alpha if you can land it all. Oddly, mouse users tend to try to ram you at very close range. That's a big mistake vs the 2X.

[Huntsman]

If you're brawling with a Cataphract you're doing it wrong.

If you're sniping with a Phract you would probably be better off with a heavier sniper like an RS since speed isn't a sniper's biggest concern and drop weight balancing isn't currently in the game. The only arguement I can see for a Phract sniper might be the 3D since that mech can poptart, a capability no heavier sniper can match.

[Ralgas]

It's more the cata's torso frame rather than the loadout, once you get targeted pretty much say goodbye to that ac/20 and both side torsos. They work much better boating gauss or small ac's and med range sniping behind the assaults using thier better speed to get attack angles.

You tend to find players with any experience are used to seeing them with the illya's xl and coring the side torsos for a quick kill.

I'd also take that ac/20 ammo in the arm and drop it in the head slot occupied by the structure, if the head armor is gone your dead anyway

[Vaneshi SnowCrash]

Lightfoot, on 30 January 2013 - 08:42 PM, said:

FF doesn't allow you to increase armor values, it just weighs less. A little less weight savings than Endo Steel.

Nope, 12% more protection (possibly more in MWO, I remember 14%) and the Clan version gives 20% over standard.

It weighs less, givese more protection but eats slots for all three meals,

[Tickdoff Tank]

This is my favorite 2X build: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...5eecc60a99f500f

AC20, 1 LL, 2 ML, 2 SSRM2s. A nice mix of damage and versatility. I like the LL for extra range and the SSRMs against lights, and I rarely have issues with ECM mechs. I don't rely on the Streaks, so if I can't use them it is not a big problem.

[Selfish]

It's a nice brawling mech, and really shines in elevated fights where it has less of a worry versus opponent's torso mounted weaponry. It's not exceptionally good at twisting/circle brawling since it has the least amount of arm range of any arm articulated mech and is as broad as a barn. It still has a very pungent alpha of 65 in its basic brawling form, and is speedy.

I wrote a guide on it way back when, but it still holds true. I prefer an AC/10 +LL in the arm over the AC20 full-on brawler. If I ran in 8man and wanted a build, I'd specialize for one role and equip the 20. In pugs/premades I like the flexibility a bit of range + extra ammo gives me. I'm able to do damage until I figure out the field, and then hit the opponents where I hope it will hurt most.

I don't play it much anymore, but it's never getting sold back. It's one of my favorite mechs, and it makes me look forward to more mechs with missile mountings on the arms.

[idle crow]

I actually have a 2X with this loadout. The problem I have found with it is survivability.

The Atlas can torso twist after firing and avoid hits to the torso with its big arms. The Cataphract cannot. You can hit a Catraphract side torso by firing just above the arm.

It's basically the loadout I used to level up my 2X in pug games.

Edited by idle crow, 31 January 2013 - 12:39 AM.

[Mr 144]

Vaneshi SnowCrash, on 30 January 2013 - 09:27 PM, said:

Nope, 12% more protection (possibly more in MWO, I remember 14%) and the Clan version gives 20% over standard.

It weighs less, givese more protection but eats slots for all three meals,

So, so wrong....
No additional protection: 1 point standard armor = 1 point ferrous fiber armor
The only thing saved is weight, and in that category, Endo is ALWAYS better.

Tennex, on 30 January 2013 - 08:37 PM, said:

the two SRM6s would need to be in chain fire. but other than that its probably a decent brawler. not as good as an A1 for sure. but still pretty good.

It's a mistake to chain fire 2xSRM6s. Doing so would result in a firing pattern of 4,2,4,2...as opposed to the group fire of 4,4,4.

I love 2X..soo versatile, but the missle arm does have it's issues when firing in water. Such a low mount means your missles are eaten by the water quite often.

Mr 144

Edited by Mr 144, 31 January 2013 - 02:16 AM.

[King Arthur IV]

the missiles have a pretty tight group because of the way it comes out. so imo its pretty good.
iv done this build before and the only bad things i have to say are, it doesnt turn or twist fast enough when brawling and the 4 second cool down on ac20 or gauss just feels way way too long. if you swap ac20 out for ac10 its much better. more shots, more ammo and more damage.
ac20 2 ton ammo: 280 damage
ac10 2 ton ammo: 300 damage
since the ac10 is 2 tons less that also mean you can add another 2 ton ammo.

dont get me wrong, i think the ac20 is great but the cool down is too long for me.

anyway iv played around with the 2x and i keep falling back to this build.CTF-2X

suits my play style.

[Edustaja]

Yeah I used to run this for a while. The thing is a D-DC with a similar load-out outperforms it in every way.

[Roadbuster]

Yes, the 2X is not your typical Cataphract. No 3D or Ilya or 4X.

But it's a very versatile variant and the missile arm is not only effective with SRM or SSRM.
Out of my head, I run mine with 1 ER PPC, 2 LRM10, 2 MPL, AMS, DHS, 300XL and max armor on everything except legs.

[HiplyRustic]

I like 'em, myself...although I run a bit of an oddball build with 3 MLs, 2 SRM6s, and AC10, and an AMS all driven by an XL310.

It's close to 80kph tweaked and although it's an XL in a 'phract it's fun to drive and fast enough that I can keep it alive pretty reliably. I've got an Ilya that's a UAC boat and a 4 I can't make a build I'm happy with...so I'm kind of partial to the chassis. I have a couple of cats...but meh, they are clearly better and at some things and harder to drop but they don't excite me a lot.

[Alex Wolfe]

Mr 144, on 31 January 2013 - 02:15 AM, said:

It's a mistake to chain fire 2xSRM6s. Doing so would result in a firing pattern of 4,2,4,2...as opposed to the group fire of 4,4,4.

2SRM6 are fired in two salvos from the missile arm. 2SRM4 are fired in one salvo.

One would think a person declaring he "loves the 2x" would notice this much while playing .

You're not botting, are you ?

[BigMooingCow]

My least successful Cataphract designs (all 4X) have been with short or mid-range weapons. My 4x AC5 build was great so long as nobody was shooting at me, cause I couldn't stand up to fire long enough for those 20pt salvos to strip armor.

I gave up on brawler builds entirely because at 48kph, the Atlas is just as fast as my 4X but can mount a lot more weapons and armor. The build linked here with 3xLL and 2xSSRM is a good loadout, but my Atlas adds two UAC5's to that and a lot of armor. Why would you take a Cataphract given that alternative, especially when PGI hugely nerfed the Cataphract's arms, while the Atlas has full articulation.

My most successful designs have been fire support. 4xAC2 works well... the heat is awful, but it's still better than what a PPC Awesome has to live with (sadly). At the moment my favored build is 2x Gauss. If I can avoid fire I have good luck shadowing a brawler to assist.

The Cataphract really could use its arm articulation back the way it was. It could also use a less-prominent CT. Right now it's largely outclassed by the K2.

[Kraven Kor]

For several reasons, the Cataphract is just not a great brawler.

It is a walking target, huge side torso hit boxes, and limited arm movement all combine to just make me not do well at close quarters in this.

Like the Awesome, I think it is intended as a medium to long range fire support mech.

It can brawl, I'm sure others have great luck with it, but not so much for me.

[Whompity]

It's a wonky build, but I run my 2X with Endo, DHS AND FF, to squeak out a few more tons for near-max armor. 1 x AC/20, 3xMPL and a big honkin' 330 engine to max out at 84kph. It doesn't sound like much damage, but you can get behind a lot of people at that speed, and if you pick your shots with the AC well...

Edited by Olivia Maybach, 31 January 2013 - 01:49 PM.

[Vaneshi SnowCrash]

Mr 144, on 31 January 2013 - 02:15 AM, said:

So, so wrong....
No additional protection: 1 point standard armor = 1 point ferrous fiber armor
The only thing saved is weight, and in that category, Endo is ALWAYS better.

I love people like you. So sure of yourself. Me? I went to Sarna and double checked what, exactly, Ferro' armour is, does and it's advantages/disadvantages over standard.

I'll leave you to find your reading glasses and do likewise, you may discover you aren't quite so correct about what Ferro does.

Better to stay silent and have people think your an *****, than open your mouth and remove all doubt.

[Pr8Dator]

I do use a 2X, I do own in it and no, I don't want to tell it to others.

The 2X is an extremely versatile chassis, in fact, I think it is the best Cataphract and like you said, works like a mini atlas. I run mine primarily with STD280, AC20, 3 ML and 2 SRM6.

Edited by Pr8Dator, 01 February 2013 - 04:19 PM.

[Rokuzachi]

Probably my favorite Phract.

I run it with either LL/SRM+Artemis or ML/UAC5/SRM+Artemis. Didn't have much luck brawling with it so I hang back in cover until the engagement is going and then try to sneak in. I usually hunt lights and mediums in it since all the gimmick Phracts give it trouble with their range advantage, and assaults just step on your face.

[Taizan]

This topc was moved to the Battlemechs sub forum, where it is more appropriate.