56 replies to this topic

[Joseph Mallan]

Ilwrath, on 31 January 2013 - 04:55 AM, said:

People that don't agree only do so because they want to stomp the pubs and are very afraid about being stomped themselves by the good premades. Pathetic people really.

This is a faulty generalization. and Ad hominem

15 yard penalty. Replay of 2nd down.

[Ilwrath]

Joseph Mallan, on 31 January 2013 - 05:07 AM, said:

This is a faulty generalization.

I think I am right about that. If we got enforced 4+4 vs 4+4 que you will find lots of the premaders trying to sync drop into whatever pub que there may be.

Even if we got tonnage or some other restriction on the 8 vs 8 que you would still find most of the premades back in the 4 man que, shivering in fear by just the very idea about joining a fair fight in the 8 vs 8 que.

If you let people join the 8 vs 8 que with anything from 3-7 players premade with fill-in from other non-8 premades, guess who you will find in the 4 man que? Yeah.. those premades. The real pick up groups, unable to prevail unless they have some sort of advantage - like voice come vs people that are pubbing.

Edited by Ilwrath, 31 January 2013 - 05:17 AM.

[Critical Fumble]

Joseph Mallan, on 31 January 2013 - 05:07 AM, said:

This is a faulty generalization. and Ad hominem

15 yard penalty. Replay of 2nd down.

Also wrong, really, seeing as there are solo droppers like me who have no real issue playing with premades and say things like:

Critical Fumble, on 30 January 2013 - 10:17 PM, said:

If ELO manages to make the match ups more balanced, then no. There's no real point then, and the mixed queue is part of the intended path from total newbie to faction member expert.

[Joseph Mallan]

I don't disagree with may have LOTS of them. It is the implied ALL of us that makes it faulty. When The Que was made into 4+4 Murphy's did not try to sync drop. We played within the rules the DEVs gave us(we still are). Not all Premades are evil PUG stompers.

Critical Fumble, on 31 January 2013 - 05:19 AM, said:

Also wrong, really, seeing as there are solo droppers like me who have no real issue playing with premades and say things like:

I didn't flag you on the play.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 31 January 2013 - 05:21 AM.

[Moridan]

Just wait and see what Elo does.

My suggestion to all of those people complaining about "those evil pre-mades unfairly stomped the PUG I was in" is simple. Go play some single player shooter. There are a lot of them out there. They will make you happy (or maybe not).

Again, this is a team game and I love it because of that. If you dont like loosing in a PUG then find a damn group. Simple, effective. Everyone in my clan came to that same realization. Together we stand, alone we die. If you can't figure that out, then either take my suggestion above... or continue being a solo-minded-moron and an easy target for me and my friends. But honestly, we prefer a challenge. 9-(

[Zolaz]

What I want is really want from PGI is a stupid forum and then another forum for the rest of us.

[Ilwrath]

Joseph Mallan, on 31 January 2013 - 05:20 AM, said:

I don't disagree with may have LOTS of them. It is the implied ALL of us that makes it faulty.

Okay. Not all of you. You are the 10%.

Zolaz, on 31 January 2013 - 06:03 AM, said:

What I want is really want from PGI is a stupid forum and then another forum for the rest of us.

They can do that when they split the que. The premade forum will be a joy to read after a split.

[Joseph Mallan]

Zolaz, on 31 January 2013 - 06:03 AM, said:

What I want is really want from PGI is a stupid forum and then another forum for the rest of us.

What makes you think you belong with "the rest of us"?

[Yokaiko]

Ilwrath, on 31 January 2013 - 05:13 AM, said:

I think I am right about that. If we got enforced 4+4 vs 4+4 que you will find lots of the premaders trying to sync drop into whatever pub que there may be.

Even if we got tonnage or some other restriction on the 8 vs 8 que you would still find most of the premades back in the 4 man que, shivering in fear by just the very idea about joining a fair fight in the 8 vs 8 que.

If you let people join the 8 vs 8 que with anything from 3-7 players premade with fill-in from other non-8 premades, guess who you will find in the 4 man que? Yeah.. those premades. The real pick up groups, unable to prevail unless they have some sort of advantage - like voice come vs people that are pubbing.

if there was an enforced 4+4 vs 4+4 queue you would never get a match started. Not with the class matching in place.

[Feetwet]

Other:
Same queue:
1. Hurry the *** up with elo already.
2. Matchmaker does its best to even premades on each team
3. Premades are marked for easier coordination
4. Simple hot keys for things like attack my target(not spam able)

Out.

[Ilwrath]

Yokaiko, on 31 January 2013 - 06:33 AM, said:

if there was an enforced 4+4 vs 4+4 queue you would never get a match started. Not with the class matching in place.

Just enforce a balanced setup for the premade based on tonnage. Yes this will make the 4 ECM Atlas gang scream but who cares?

[Yokaiko]

Ilwrath, on 31 January 2013 - 06:37 AM, said:

Just enforce a balanced setup for the premade based on tonnage. Yes this will make the 4 ECM Atlas gang scream but who cares?

We said that WAY WAY WAY back in CB when people started whining about 8 mans and Atlas online.

We got class for class matching instead. Even then, with drop limits you are further restricting what can happen and reducing the chance of a drop happening.

Say the limit is 600 tons and a 4 man drop with 4 atlases. That means unless there is another 4 man that equals 200 tonns no game. So once again the probabilities start shooting off through the roof when you look at this from a high level view.

....and I wouldn't want to de-bug that algorithm

[Mechteric]

What happens when there's some 3 man groups out there? They get matched with a 4 man, and then they're 1 man short from the enemy team that got two 4 man groups matched to the same team.

The ELO matchmaking ranking is the answer, not trying some weird scheme where solo players can't fill in the necessary gaps.

[Yokaiko]

CapperDeluxe, on 31 January 2013 - 06:47 AM, said:

What happens when there's some 3 man groups out there? They get matched with a 4 man, and then they're 1 man short from the enemy team that got two 4 man groups matched to the same team.

The ELO matchmaking ranking is the answer, not trying some weird scheme where solo players can't fill in the necessary gaps.

Forcing 4 mans to match first and then filling with randoms would be the real answer, and from a code point of view the easiest, its just two additional loops.

+ELO of course

Edited by Yokaiko, 31 January 2013 - 06:50 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Yokaiko, on 31 January 2013 - 06:33 AM, said:

if there was an enforced 4+4 vs 4+4 queue you would never get a match started. Not with the class matching in place.

I wouldn't say never. But how long has it been since we had a new MW game???

[Yokaiko]

Joseph Mallan, on 31 January 2013 - 06:50 AM, said:

I wouldn't say never. But how long has it been since we had a new MW game???

Yeah exactly

[Zaptruder]

CapperDeluxe, on 31 January 2013 - 06:47 AM, said:

What happens when there's some 3 man groups out there? They get matched with a 4 man, and then they're 1 man short from the enemy team that got two 4 man groups matched to the same team.

The ELO matchmaking ranking is the answer, not trying some weird scheme where solo players can't fill in the necessary gaps.

The impetus for making this thread largely came about by the comments from the devs on 12 man groups.

i.e. have groups and fill the rest with pugs. Which is kinda like what I'm suggesting, except with added ambiguity.

So potentially, you could have 12 man groups vs 6 2 man groups, or 3 4 man groups vs 4 3 man groups, or any combination thereof... the only point is to seperate out players that don't want to be playing in a grouped match, because that typically comes with a triple whammy of better team work, better skill level and better mechs.


To be honest, my first preference is still a detailed and transparent Battle Value system that multiples for skill level (like the TT game does for pilot skill) as well as providing a multiplier for group size; then using the Elo weighted BVs to match players and groups together.

In larger groups where the skill level is high and the mechs are well built - if there aren't enough groups that can match the BV, then they might fail to drop a few times. Each time they fail to drop, the variable range for BV matching increases. So in this way, they can still find games... but they'll be penalized by having to wait longer in doing so.

I think that's a better solution than the current system where groups larger than 4 pretty much don't exist.

[pcunite]

Ilwrath, on 31 January 2013 - 04:55 AM, said:

You can get great matches if you got a good premade on each side. I would like to have the choice to join up for that or just go pure pub if I want that.

This can be true, but often I see the premades not communicating to the pugs at all thus making the pugs play even worse. When I pug sometimes I'll state so and I get no response. Then I see four mechs going off by themselves and I'll hook up with them. Then I do more work than they do …

[Kill Dozer]

"Other solution (make post explaining)"

Lobby system with basic game options for the room creator, this has been available since Mechwarrior 2.

[Joseph Mallan]

Dozer there you go again trying to bring logical solutions to an irrational argument!

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 31 January 2013 - 07:50 AM.