60 replies to this topic

[MaddMaxx]

Thomas Dziegielewski, on 31 January 2013 - 01:07 PM, said:

Ya, I love BAP + SENSOR RANGE + DECAY

Now don't take this the wrong way Thomas, but did you actually play the game enough to cover the cost of that setup? Or did you get the Dev's discount package. lol

Modules, 8 million C-Bills, Install, 10,000 GXP and 400K C-Bills for the BAP component.

That is a serious outlay given the current economy....

Edited by MaddMaxx, 01 February 2013 - 09:56 AM.

[Gristle]

Solis Obscuri, on 01 February 2013 - 09:53 AM, said:

Or this:

Isn't that the PUG Stern Port Probe? Can't seem to find the Sarna page for it ATM...

[Protoculture]

Mr Everything, on 31 January 2013 - 12:37 PM, said:

Hello Guys I am Torn with What my Beagle active Probe actually does,,,,,,

It seams that the ECM disrupts (what ECM should do) but it also does what you would think BAP Should do and that is cut through ECM (Counter)

Does BAP do anything in MWO or is it just a waste of space on my Mech?

It wastes tonnage and money.

[Lykaon]

Thomas Dziegielewski, on 31 January 2013 - 12:58 PM, said:

GetTargetingRangeBoost() - 25%
GetTargetingGaintTimeBoost() - 25%
GetUnpoweredMechDetectionRange() - 120m


straight from code

Raka and Eric had it all correct. Didn't even think of scrolling up



EDIT : Updated with values

So essentially a 1.5 ton waste of space when compared to ECM.

That...

Jams Artemis,BAP,TAG and Narc,can counter hostile ECM,Prevents targeting of any friendly mech by a hostile if that mech is within 180m of ECM (until said hostile is within 25% of it's max sensor range).Prevents lock on from LRMs and Streaks if the firing unit or target is within 180m of ECM Disrupts minimap display of friendly units if hostile ECM is within 180m,Prevents friendly units from passivley transmitting enemy locations to the mini map if either the target or targeting unit are within ECM range,prevents passive transmition of enemy critical data to friendly units if either target or targeting unit is within ECM effects
And I probably missed some other effect ECM does but the jist is BAP does next to nothing ECM is godlike.

[verybad]

It probes your beagle 25% deeper.

Edited by verybad, 01 February 2013 - 04:50 PM.

[Eights n Aces]

Mazzyplz, on 31 January 2013 - 12:57 PM, said:

the short answer is that it is a waste of space on your mech LOL.

^^^

[The Amazing Atomic Spaniel]

Thomas Dziegielewski, on 31 January 2013 - 01:07 PM, said:

Ya, I love BAP + SENSOR RANGE + DECAY

Problem is, Thomas, that BAP is completely ****** by ECM, isn't it?

[MischiefSC]

It's a decent toy on an ECM equipped mech. I run one on my Atlas, sometimes people try to power down to hide (especially in night games) and it helps. Also the extra speed in target info data.

With ECM I get more use out of it than an AMS.

[Taron]

Beagle is nice for scouts, who ONLY do the scout role. It's nothing for that fighting machines. With beagle, you can get enemies positions and data faster - even if enemy has ECM. That's all.

But cause so many Scouts are using theire mechs as fighting machines, it lost a lot of it's sense.

[LaserAngel]

DocBach, on 01 February 2013 - 09:52 AM, said:

All of the advanced rules for Beagle (360 degree targeting, advanced sensors, ect ect) have been introduced as modules instead of included with Beagle. Beagle does, however, function as it is suppose to by the base rule set.

The problem is ECM functions as it is suppose to with the base rule set, yet has all of the functions plus more from advanced rule sets. If we're going to cleave the usefulness from Beagle and force people to purchase modules to get its utility back, why not do the same for ECM?

http://mwomercs.com/...__fromsearch__1

Thankfully the modules stack and have the benefit of being weightless. The BAP does take of space and weight but it's a lot cheaper at 400,000 C-Bills, not to mention you don't need all that GXP for it. I still hope to see some of those additional BAP features from TT are implemented. The Pilot Lab is supposed to allow you to flesh out the feel of your pilot and style. Not to completely replace equipment in my opinion.

Edited by LaserAngel, 01 February 2013 - 05:21 PM.

[Kaspirikay]

Beagles should increase the range of which you can target ECM and stack with the targeting modules.

[Taizan]

Record match data for replays? Pleeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaase? :-D

[Lightfoot]

Description in game says it decreases lock-on time and it seems to by about 1 second.

[DocBach]

LaserAngel, on 01 February 2013 - 05:19 PM, said:

Thankfully the modules stack and have the benefit of being weightless. The BAP does take of space and weight but it's a lot cheaper at 400,000 C-Bills, not to mention you don't need all that GXP for it. I still hope to see some of those additional BAP features from TT are implemented. The Pilot Lab is supposed to allow you to flesh out the feel of your pilot and style. Not to completely replace equipment in my opinion.

Agreed, but they've already cut up Beagle and put its effects as modules. It wouldn't make sense to give you all of the modules for free in a 400,000 1.5 ton package after they've been selling them for 6,000,000 c-bills a piece?

[LaserAngel]

Taizan, on 02 February 2013 - 10:34 AM, said:

Record match data for replays? Pleeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaase? :-D

Yeah it's funny when the BAP information says that it records combat information for later review.

DocBach, on 02 February 2013 - 10:53 AM, said:

Agreed, but they've already cut up Beagle and put its effects as modules. It wouldn't make sense to give you all of the modules for free in a 400,000 1.5 ton package after they've been selling them for 6,000,000 c-bills a piece?

It's a little bit of both. You have the easier to access BAP at the expense of criticals/tonnage. The "end game" pilot flavoring is in the modules. I know I have my Founder's blinders on but after mastering 5 chassis, what else do I have to spend my GXP and C-Bills on?

[Jungle Rhino]

I carry BAP on a AWS-8T which I have fitted with 2x LRM15 (Artemis) + TAG

When piloting this mech I try to get myself in a position to fire the LRMs at ranges of 300-500m with direct LoS. With both TAG + Artemis working and little time for the target to avoid the barrage it does wreck people pretty badly if you can work it (not easy).

Anyhoo I find the decreased lock time from BAP very helpful for this mech as it often means the difference between getting a whole extra salvo off when something is charging you down.

But for an indirect LRM boat not a lot of value really.

Could be worth considering on a fast moving light (or CN9-A) carrying a lot of Streaks if you can find the tonnage maybe?

[Windsaw]

I used to carry BAP sometimes on my scout commando. Together with the module it made a really good scout/spotter.
I stopped doing this when ECM came out. If the enemy has ECM, it is pretty much dead weight.
And since 1.5 tons on a Commando is quite a lot the risk of carrying a useless piece of equipment is too high.
Scouting and spotting in general is not needed as much anymore than it used to.

[80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie]

BDU Havoc, on 31 January 2013 - 12:47 PM, said:

I believe it also decreases your lock on time.

Wrong, this was a property MW4 gave BAP, although it should have it, it does not have that effect in MW:O

[LaserAngel]

mwhighlander, on 02 February 2013 - 11:24 AM, said:

Wrong, this was a property MW4 gave BAP, although it should have it, it does not have that effect in MW:O

I believe people are usually mistaking the reduction in Target Information Gathering time for a lock-on time reduction.

[80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie]

LaserAngel, on 02 February 2013 - 11:26 AM, said:

I believe people are usually mistaking the reduction in Target Information Gathering time for a lock-on time reduction.

True that, but what would make BAP worth using is...

-Detection of ECM bubble (in canon, BAP is described as to knowing that its being jammed, although not directly seeing what. SO the implementation would be a greyed out circle on your battlegrid when ECM is near.

-360 radar detect within 120m and through buildings (again, sarna describes the BAP as being able to find hidden enemies)

-Decreases Missile lock-on time of enemy mechs (by 25%, take a que from past MechWarrior precedents)

-retain its 3 other properties of detecting shutdown mechs, increase radar range, and information gathering on targets.


Really, BAP should be the strong peice of equipment that is countered by ECM. Not the other way around. But that will require ECM being changed radically to do what its actually supposed to do, instead of ECM being Guardian Angel ECM suite (3052 tech, not even in this timeline!) stealth armor and most of null sig (minus hiding the thermal sig).

Then we could also argue that NARC needs to be changed, which would mean also changing missiles, too.

sarna.net said:

While the original Narc system provided a superior homing ability for SRM and LRMs, it proved too unpopular compared to its main competitor, the Artemis IV, due to the launcher's short range.

See? SRMs DO HAVE HOMING CAPABILITIES! Just they need a narc/tag to do so.

links for reference:
http://www.sarna.net..._Missile_Beacon (not yet in timeline)
Improved NARC
http://www.sarna.net..._Missile_Beacon
NARC
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Active_Probe
BAP
http://www.sarna.net...nd_Active_Probe (Not yet in timeline)
BloodhoundAP
http://www.sarna.net...cquisition_Gear
TAG
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Angel_ECM (not yet in timeline, the ECM we have now and is why we complain)
Angel ECM
http://www.sarna.net...i/Stealth_Armor (the other half of what current ECM does)
Stealth Armor
http://www.sarna.net...ignature_System (Completely Lostech, unavailable and what current ECM does, too)
Null Sig



PLEASE! Everyone read up on what the actual equpiment is supposed to do! Understand why equipment right now is a joke not balanced at all!

Edited by mwhighlander, 02 February 2013 - 11:40 AM.