101 replies to this topic

[Redmond Spiderhammer]

the problem with knockdown wasnt the accidental collision or poor piloting KDs. It was the situations like being one light against 3 and they still feel the need to circumvent a skilled fight by tripping. Not quite as cheap a tactic as ECM + Streak, but cheap nonetheless. I have zero respect for kills earned via tripping. (same goes for kills via streaks while we're at it)

[Mazzyplz]

updated original post with more videos, now i'm convinced this is the main reason it was pulled.

you can like each other's posts all you want, it doesn't undo what we're watching in these videos;
to quote a comment from youtube in one of those:

"this is why we can't have nice things"
because there's always some sort of dirtbag that just looks to irritate people

[Kain]

it was pulled because the whole collision mechanic was an initial testing mechanic they had put it in as a placeholder which was inbalanced due to wrong physics calculation and of course due to the buggy netcode. So they pulled it because it was completely not finished.

But of course when collision is back in, people will try to abuse it.
But the presented videos in this topic are mostly about a compact group of mechs against one lonely enemy mech, but when you are alone against a majority of opponents, you will lose, with or without knockdown...

Edited by Kain, 28 February 2013 - 06:00 AM.

[Mazzyplz]

Kain, on 28 February 2013 - 05:59 AM, said:

it was pulled because the whole collision mechanic was an initial testing mechanic they had put it in as a placeholder which was inbalanced due to wrong physics calculation and of course due to the buggy netcode. So they pulled it because it was completely not finished.

But of course when collision is back in, people will try to abuse it.
But the presented videos in this topic are mostly about a compact group of mechs against one lonely enemy mech, but when you are alone against a majority of opponents, you will lose, with or without knockdown...

that's not my point. my point is these people are making those guys have a hard time, just all around mocking them and wasting their time;
it must be extremely frustrating to be trolled like this instead of a quick shot to the head.
you missed the mark on the point i was trying to make across by light years

laugh like a moron with your friends and suck ALL the fun right out of a casual player's game.
NICE!

Edited by Mazzyplz, 28 February 2013 - 06:02 AM.

[Oni Ralas]

Knockdown is essential to BT play. The last implementation of it was a bit wonky due to the physics (didn't sound like they were doing .5mv2 calcs right ) but should be brought back. In addition, big guns should have a chance to knockdown as well. Bring a whole new dimension to playing with shotguns at close range.

ECM stealth is far worse than collisions could have ever been.

[Yokaiko]

Redmond Spiderhammer, on 31 January 2013 - 09:13 PM, said:

the problem with knockdown wasnt the accidental collision or poor piloting KDs. It was the situations like being one light against 3 and they still feel the need to circumvent a skilled fight by tripping. Not quite as cheap a tactic as ECM + Streak, but cheap nonetheless. I have zero respect for kills earned via tripping. (same goes for kills via streaks while we're at it)

Cheap my ***.

If I'm in a light duel, and I have back up and he doesn't you can put money on my going for a clothesline. Why? Because the hell with circlejerking for the next three minutes until someone screws up, the idea is to KILL the mech, if the fastest way is to put hat mech on his butt so a team make kills him Good, 0 Fs given. As it is I amuse myself killing ravens in the middle of four of their team mates from time to time, that crap would stop right there.

Hell even one on one, it was handy when your heat started getting out of hand. May have the upper hand on damage to your opponent, but you know if you shut down, you are toast.

Trip him and reset. Because shutting down in front of a jenner in another light is usually a death sentence.

Edited by Yokaiko, 28 February 2013 - 06:14 AM.

[Mazzyplz]

i'm not comparing ECM, this thread is not about ECM.

go make a thread about it if you feel so inclined.

this is about what i posted before.
time wasting moronic trolling, frustrating at the end of a match when it shouldn't be for the average player

[Yokaiko]

Mazzyplz, on 28 February 2013 - 06:14 AM, said:

time wasting moronic trolling, frustrating at the end of a match when it shouldn't be for the average player

Frustrating is getting circled by three lights that are busy passing though you for 5 minutes at a time. Particually when you are dealing with screwed up Raven hit boxes.

Or better the jenner then straight chest humps so that you can't aim down at him, that ends.

Edited by Yokaiko, 28 February 2013 - 06:16 AM.

[Mazzyplz]

Yokaiko, on 28 February 2013 - 06:16 AM, said:

Frustrating is getting circled by three lights that are busy passing though you for 5 minutes at a time.

Particually when you are dealing with screwed up Raven hit boxes.

yeah they need to fix rubber banding.
i don't see what it has to do with anything
if you're fighting 3vs1 alone then you did something wrong, or it is the end of the match and you'll be killed promptly, not dragging it on and on for no reason

Edited by Mazzyplz, 28 February 2013 - 06:18 AM.

[Yokaiko]

Mazzyplz, on 28 February 2013 - 06:16 AM, said:

yeah they need to fix rubber banding.
i don't see what it has to do with anything

A mech laying on the ground isn't rubberbanding. He's on the ground about to get alpha'd.

THAT is what knockdowns gave us, more than there mechs in an area was enough to chase off most light pilots because two many mechs in a space meant he was GOING to hit something and die..


Knockdowns need to be back in, and they needed to be back in like a month ago.


It would also solve your spaltcat issue, team mate hits him, everyone blasts him, dead cat.

If you remember that was one of the earlier tweeks, the Dragon was set to 100 tons and the Cat was set to 50 for collision purposes. There is all sorts of interesting things you can do there. Pretty sure where the screwed up is that there were using a TT accounting for engine size, which was why the 400XL Dragon was a bulldozer.

Edited by Yokaiko, 28 February 2013 - 06:21 AM.

[Mazzyplz]

what splatcat issue, i have no issue with splatcat nor with lights circling my team.

i was in a match just a few hours ago with mostly lights and my heavier team took em out with their twists and jetpacks and everything.
not a problem for me, i don't find it frustrating.

i would find this kind of juvenile display quite frustrating in turn, you don't agree? ok.
we don't agree

[Yokaiko]

Mazzyplz, on 28 February 2013 - 06:24 AM, said:

i would find this kind of juvenile display quite frustrating in turn, you don't agree? ok.
we don't agree

What are you talking about?

[Chrithu]

DIdn't read all the thread just answering the opening post. Gathering from what officials had to say, if knockdowns come back they will be physically correct meaning that mass and speed will determine wether one of the colliding mechs is knocked down.

That being said: It is likely that a collision between two lights makes them both trip. Also it's unlikely that a lighter mech can trip a heavier one over.

When knockdowns become part of the game again lights simply will have to adapt to it again, by keeping their distance and employing hit and run tactics again instead of circlejerking.

Also as it is right now you get stupid hangs when running into another mech. When collsiions are implemented corectl this will hopefully stop again, because either on of them or both mechs fall down or they clash into each other with no way to move forward and resulting in heavy damage to both. So hopefully no more head through wall running mechs in the tunnel in Frozen Yoghurt City.

[urmamasllama]

this is a mechanic that needs major physics to work right. its all about energy transference of momentum. back then it was a little too easy to knock over certain mech for instance a jenner should never be able to knock down an atlas (or at least it should be very rare) in fact the only mech i could see being allowed to pull this off should be dragons and awesome (maybe only maxed out pretty baby)


all of that said i want this mechanic back in so bad its not funny

[Yokaiko]

Jason Parker, on 28 February 2013 - 06:32 AM, said:

.

That being said: It is likely that a collision between two lights makes them both trip. Also it's unlikely that a lighter mech can trip a heavier one over.

A 35 ton mech going 150kph has just short of 200,000 metric tonnes of force behind (it, which should be enough to knock an Atlas at rest over in an inelastic collision. (pushing the CG outside of the track and all of that fun stuff)

Now depending on how deeply the game's physics engine gets into vector modeling you may or may not get the kick to that atlas.

Who knows, they never really got into the mechanic. I know that engine size was accounted for as it was in the tabletop (go read the charging and melee rules) which was where I think that they broke the system.

The phazing around as a mech was standing up was more annoying than anything.

Edited by Yokaiko, 28 February 2013 - 06:43 AM.

[urmamasllama]

Yokaiko, on 28 February 2013 - 06:39 AM, said:

A 35 ton mech going 150kph has just short of 200,000 metric tonnes of force behind (it, which should be enough to knock an Atlas at rest over in an inelastic collision. (pushing the CG outside of the track and all of that fun stuff)

Now depending on how deeply the game's physics engine gets into vector modeling you may or may not get the kick to that atlas.

Who knows, they never really got into the mechanic. I know that engine size was accounted for as it was in the tabletop (go read the charging and melee rules) which was where I think that they broke the system.

The phazing around as a mech was standing up was more annoying than anything.

if it runs into the atlas' legs it should fall flat on its back. if it does a death from above at that speed while the atlas is standing still... okay idk about while it's moving i do see it falling down while moving forward but i also see a jenner splattering it's front armor or legs in the process

Edited by urmamasllama, 28 February 2013 - 06:48 AM.

[Flying Blind]

The problem you are seeing here has nothing to do with knockdown and everything to do with goons. now I don't just mean The Goon Squad though they are primary perpetrators of this sort of shenanigans, no I mean every griefing ***** out there who thinks it is funny to abuse people.

Knockdown is a good thing if the coding is fixed and it works properly. Knockdown isn't the problem, people are the problem. sadly, we can't force these people to grow up, we just have to cope with their presence. the 4 man cap on pug-drops will help reduce this as we will no longer have 8 like-minded A-holes teaming up to grief the world.

Also, please understand that if you knock down an enemy in sight of his own team you are going to be shot apart by them just as you are trying to shoot him apart.

[Yokaiko]

urmamasllama, on 28 February 2013 - 06:48 AM, said:

if it runs into the atlas' legs it should fall flat on its back. if it does a death from above at that speed while the atlas is standing still... okay idk about while it's moving i do see it falling down while moving forward but i also see a jenner splattering it's front armor or legs in the process

Perhaps.

Putting real collision damage in would be entirely over the top, you could destroy a lot of mech simply by hitting them head on. I doubt that is really what anyone wants.

Knocking them over for a couple points of damage, adds tactical flavor, dying every time you run around a corner into an assault that you don't know is there (hello D-DC) is a bit over the top. You would NEVER get everyone out of their atlases.

[Comassion]

The thing with collisions is that they should do some serious damage at high speeds. That will discourage lights from using them against other lights just to knock the target down, because you'll both get pretty messed up in the process.

[Flying Blind]

yes collisions should do real damage