379 replies to this topic

[Profiteer]

Is it possible to make it so a 4 man has to be matched with another 4 man?

Thus you'd have a 4 man + 4 PUGS vs another 4 man + 4 PUGS. Sounds fair.

[AceTimberwolf]

Thirdstar, on 31 January 2013 - 09:41 PM, said:

Advocating team killing? Wow, just wow.

Ｄｉｄｎ’ｔ　ｓａｙ　Ｋｉｌｌ　ｔｈｅ　ｏｎｅｓ　ｏｎ　ｙｏｕｒ　ｔｅａｍ．　Ｊｕｓｔ　ｋｉｌｌ　ｏｆ　ｔｈｅ　ｏｔｈｅｒ　４　ｏｎ　ｔｈｅ　ｏｐｐｏｓｉｎｇ　ｔｅａｍ　ｉｔｓ　ｕｓａｌｌｙ　ｐｒｅｔｔｙ　ｑｕｉｃｋ．

Ｂｅｓｉｄｅｓ　Ｔｈｅ　ｏｎｌｙ　Ｐｅｏｐｌｅ　Ｉ　ＴＫ　ａｒｅ　ｋｎｏｗｎ　Ｔｅａｍ　Ｋｉｌｌｅｒｓ　ｌｉｋｅ　ＬＤＳ　ａｎｄ　ｈｉｓ　ｆｒｉｅｎｄｓ

Edited by AceTimberwolf, 31 January 2013 - 09:47 PM.

[Nahuris]

Again, it's not the 4 man groups --- and I say this as a person who pugs all the time.
It's 4 man groups that don't communicate.
Maybe we could get the Devs to put a small number next to the triangle for people in a group..... all the ones are group one, etc.
If you see 5 ones, then you know that you have a 5 man group, and also where the primary bulk of your team is going to be.
At that point, a pugger can just follow the group, and that improves things for the team.....

If I know that I have a team, I tend to try and work with them.... it helps both sides a LOT.

Nahuris

[AceTimberwolf]

Nahuris, on 31 January 2013 - 09:46 PM, said:

Again, it's not the 4 man groups --- and I say this as a person who pugs all the time.
It's 4 man groups that don't communicate.
Maybe we could get the Devs to put a small number next to the triangle for people in a group..... all the ones are group one, etc.
If you see 5 ones, then you know that you have a 5 man group, and also where the primary bulk of your team is going to be.
At that point, a pugger can just follow the group, and that improves things for the team.....

If I know that I have a team, I tend to try and work with them.... it helps both sides a LOT.

Nahuris

Ｙｅａ　ｔｈａｔ　ｗｏｕｌｄ　ｂｅ　ｇｏｏｄ．　Ｊｕｓｔ　ｓｏｍｅ　Ｖｉｓｕａｌ　Ｒｅｆｅｒｅｎｃｅ　ｔｏ　ｂｅ　ｕｓｅｄ　ｗｈｅｎ　ｐｌａｙｉｎｇ　ｗｉｔｈ　ｏｔｈｅｒ　ｇｒｏｕｐｓ．

[Endbr1nger]

Disclaimer:
I play the majority of my games solo. I only really group up if my friends are on, and that is rare. Yes I have joined TS in the past to group up, but TBH the game is kind of boring in a random group (its to easy).

The problem isn't 4 man groups, its terrible players. Every time I get stomped with a pug 2-4 people on my team have done less than 100 damage. Hopefully an ELO system will make sure that these people are matched against others who cant hit 100 damage (maybe a no mouse league?).

Having a solo only queue will simply kill 4 man groups because the 4 man queue will be empty. If you split the community that way you will kill all queues aside from the solo one, since that's what the majority of the community plays. People who play in 4 man groups have just as much right to play the game as those who are soloing.

[Cranky Poed]

Ravill, on 31 January 2013 - 09:40 PM, said:

Matchmaking needs lots of work for both the pug and group side of things, but pugs don't have an excuse for not trying to get grouped up. Well, short of not having a mic (which are dirt cheap), hating the sound of human voices, and only having enough time for one round. If I just described you please uninstall because online gaming is not for you.

oh..ok...so i cant play 15 minutes of Battlefield 3 before work..or Planetside 2 with my morning coffee?

[Sam Slade]

Endbr1nger, on 31 January 2013 - 09:52 PM, said:

The problem isn't 4 man groups, its terrible players. Every time I get stomped with a pug 2-4 people on my team have done less than 100 damage. Hopefully an ELO system will make sure that these people are matched against others who cant hit 100 damage (maybe a no mouse league?).

Having a solo only queue will simply kill 4 man groups because the 4 man queue will be empty. If you split the community that way you will kill all queues aside from the solo one, since that's what the majority of the community plays. People who play in 4 man groups have just as much right to play the game as those who are soloing.

ELO = Win: fine, problem solved.

ELO = Fail: 4 mans need to go... get your friend and join an 8 man team.

[Wraith05]

Sam Slade, on 31 January 2013 - 09:10 PM, said:

Right now the new player experience in MWO is bad. It's not Trial Mechs or grind or anything like that; simply put we have to do away with four man groups. I've been playing PUGs exclusivly for almost a month now just to see what all the fuss was about... I'm actually starting to dislike the game and play Hawken or something instead.

Generally a four man premade group will contain at least one ECM mech(usually two), they will contain highly speced mechs(all the upgrades, etc...) and they will communicate easily(duh). Combine this with the synch drops(don't care if you're wanting to play against your clanmates... harden up and form an 8 man team), the high chance that at least one PUGer will dc/afk/suicide rush, the fact that ALL ECM counters require teamwork and you have a high chance of ending up on the wrong end of a backside kicking.

All in all this makes for a terrible, terrible new player experience... having played PUGs constantly I can say without a doubt the four man groups are the most negative element in the game. I LOVE mechwarrior but playing as a PUG just sucks.

So what happens when the 4 mans are gone from your queues and you find playing as a PUG still sucks when you get pants on heads teammates?

The new player experience isn't bad due to premades, it is because they are matched against more experienced players in general. Players that have better mechs built to their playstyles that run circles around them while the new player is still figuring out what a weapon group is.

[AceTimberwolf]

Endbr1nger, on 31 January 2013 - 09:52 PM, said:

Disclaimer:
I play the majority of my games solo. I only really group up if my friends are on, and that is rare. Yes I have joined TS in the past to group up, but TBH the game is kind of boring in a random group (its to easy).

The problem isn't 4 man groups, its terrible players. Every time I get stomped with a pug 2-4 people on my team have done less than 100 damage. Hopefully an ELO system will make sure that these people are matched against others who cant hit 100 damage (maybe a no mouse league?).

Having a solo only queue will simply kill 4 man groups because the 4 man queue will be empty. If you split the community that way you will kill all queues aside from the solo one, since that's what the majority of the community plays. People who play in 4 man groups have just as much right to play the game as those who are soloing.

Ｄｏ　ｗｅ　Ｈａｖｅ　ｔｈｅ　Ｎｕｍｂｅｒｓ　ｔｈａｔ　Ｍｏｓｔ　ｐｅｏｐｌｅ　Ｓｏｌｏ？　Ｉ　ｗｏｕｌｄ　ｔｈｉｎｋ　Ｔｈａｔ　ｙｅｓ　ｔｈｅｒｅ　ａｒｅ　ａ　ｈｅａｖｙ　ｎｕｍｂｅｒ　ｏｆ　ｓｏｌｏ　ｐｌａｙｅｒｓ　ｂｕｔ　２－８　ｐｌａｙｅｒｓ　ｓｅｅｍｓ　ｍｏｒｅ　ｌｉｋｅｌｙ　ｏｎ　ｓｃａｌｅ

[Nahuris]

Endbr1nger, on 31 January 2013 - 09:52 PM, said:

Disclaimer:
I play the majority of my games solo. I only really group up if my friends are on, and that is rare. Yes I have joined TS in the past to group up, but TBH the game is kind of boring in a random group (its to easy).

The problem isn't 4 man groups, its terrible players. Every time I get stomped with a pug 2-4 people on my team have done less than 100 damage. Hopefully an ELO system will make sure that these people are matched against others who cant hit 100 damage (maybe a no mouse league?).

Having a solo only queue will simply kill 4 man groups because the 4 man queue will be empty. If you split the community that way you will kill all queues aside from the solo one, since that's what the majority of the community plays. People who play in 4 man groups have just as much right to play the game as those who are soloing.

I agree --- I don't mind the groups, as long as they communicate.
I hate trying to guess which cockroach to follow on my map..... and yes, it can feel like that.
Game counter hits zero, and the lights go on... suddenly it's every roach for themselves as they scatter.
By the time you can tell that this particular 4 are sort of together, it's usually about the time that the shooting starts.... and either your late man to the party, or you followed the wrong roach....etc.

There are decent pug players out there.... communicate with us, and you can get the support. If you can manage to get 3 other friends, then shouldn't you at least be able to manage to let us know, so we can work with you?

Nahuris

[Harrison Kelly]

I've run premades, both 4 and 8 man. I've pugged. All in all, I've run about 600 matches since the stat wipe.

Let me tell you premade whiners this right now: the problem is not premade 4's stomping new players.

It's that new players SUCK at this game through no fault of their own, and when they get matched against people who know what they're doing, they get stomped.

I consider myself decent at this game. Not competitive, but decent enough to average 500+ XP per game and usually over 200 damage with 1.84 KDR. That said, when I PUG, I lose more often not because of evil premades, but because most players in this game are terrible and have no clue about tactics or strategy. They run off in separate directions and get killed. That's not evil premades. That's bad/new players being bad/new players. When I get stomped, I don't blame the evil premades. I evaluate what I could have done better and recognize that when pugging, I have no right to complain if I don't attempt to organize the team. If I do try and organize the team and get ignored, then there's not much I could've done and I write the match off.

So for all you premade haters, you're not getting killed because of evil premades. You're getting killed because people suck at this game.

Edited by Harrison Kelly, 31 January 2013 - 10:01 PM.

[Nahuris]

Ravill, on 31 January 2013 - 09:40 PM, said:

Matchmaking needs lots of work for both the pug and group side of things, but pugs don't have an excuse for not trying to get grouped up. Well, short of not having a mic (which are dirt cheap), hating the sound of human voices, and only having enough time for one round. If I just described you please uninstall because online gaming is not for you.

Or, your cat chewed your headset wire, and due to being laid off.... you can't replace them......

There are other reasons

I also pug for training, so that when CW comes online, i am skilled enough to truly support my team.

Nahuris

[armyof1]

Endbr1nger, on 31 January 2013 - 09:52 PM, said:

Disclaimer:
I play the majority of my games solo. I only really group up if my friends are on, and that is rare. Yes I have joined TS in the past to group up, but TBH the game is kind of boring in a random group (its to easy).

The problem isn't 4 man groups, its terrible players. Every time I get stomped with a pug 2-4 people on my team have done less than 100 damage. Hopefully an ELO system will make sure that these people are matched against others who cant hit 100 damage (maybe a no mouse league?).

Having a solo only queue will simply kill 4 man groups because the 4 man queue will be empty. If you split the community that way you will kill all queues aside from the solo one, since that's what the majority of the community plays. People who play in 4 man groups have just as much right to play the game as those who are soloing.

The main problem here as you also mentioned is the players with huge difference in skills being put together and having no area where you can learn with others who are also new at it. I haven't played any version of mech warrior before this and trying to learn the basics while in a huge firefight is a ridiculous trial by fire.

Another problem is how some equipment and lack thereof gives a huge edge to the team that have vs those that don't. The way ECM and LRM-boats in combination is so overpowering, if you end up in a team that have neither you know you're going to be overwhelmed sooner or later. You can't even have a brawl with others because you'll be eating LRMs constantly while trying to dodge lasers. That is something that also needs to be balanced.

[Joe Mallad]

The problem is they took out the weight class match mechanism in 8 man games and so 8 man games for the most part become 1 side steam rolling another with all heavies and assaults or 1 side running nothing but ECM lights and so on. This discourages a lot of people from doing 8 man drops because its generally lopsided. So more pre mades go the 4 man route because they know they can still have more of a some what even match because the other team will be matched in weight class. What we need is a 4 vs 4 game mode so when there isn't enough guys on to run 8 mans. The 4 mans can go at it lance vs lance and not bother the pugs that don't want thier new game experience messed with.

[SpiralRazor]

Hmm...another person who hasnt read the ELO posts.

[Zylo]

Sam Slade, on 31 January 2013 - 09:10 PM, said:

Right now the new player experience in MWO is bad. It's not Trial Mechs or grind or anything like that; simply put we have to do away with four man groups. I've been playing PUGs exclusivly for almost a month now just to see what all the fuss was about... I'm actually starting to dislike the game and play Hawken or something instead.

Generally a four man premade group will contain at least one ECM mech(usually two), they will contain highly speced mechs(all the upgrades, etc...) and they will communicate easily(duh). Combine this with the synch drops(don't care if you're wanting to play against your clanmates... harden up and form an 8 man team), the high chance that at least one PUGer will dc/afk/suicide rush, the fact that ALL ECM counters require teamwork and you have a high chance of ending up on the wrong end of a backside kicking.

All in all this makes for a terrible, terrible new player experience... having played PUGs constantly I can say without a doubt the four man groups are the most negative element in the game. I LOVE mechwarrior but playing as a PUG just sucks.

Does the rest of your corp whine as much as you do?

[Moromillas]

While I'm well and truly on the same page about the new player experience, I do disagree. Splintering those that enjoy grouping with friends in the game is not an ideal solution.

[Aaron45]

Elo System is coming sooon. No worries, It ll be fixed hopefully

[Brilig]

armyof1, on 31 January 2013 - 10:05 PM, said:

Another problem is how some equipment and lack thereof gives a huge edge to the team that have vs those that don't. The way ECM and LRM-boats in combination is so overpowering, if you end up in a team that have neither you know you're going to be overwhelmed sooner or later. You can't even have a brawl with others because you'll be eating LRMs constantly while trying to dodge lasers. That is something that also needs to be balanced.

I think a pre match lobby would probably fix this issue. Give people some time to organize their drop. Dev's said its being looked at but not a priority. :/

[Profiteer]

Harrison Kelly, on 31 January 2013 - 10:00 PM, said:

I've run premades, both 4 and 8 man. I've pugged. All in all, I've run about 600 matches since the stat wipe.

Let me tell you premade whiners this right now: the problem is not premade 4's stomping new players.

It's that new players SUCK at this game through no fault of their own, and when they get matched against people who know what they're doing, they get stomped.

I consider myself decent at this game. Not competitive, but decent enough to average 500+ XP per game and usually over 200 damage with 1.84 KDR. That said, when I PUG, I lose more often not because of evil premades, but because most players in this game are terrible and have no clue about tactics or strategy. They run off in separate directions and get killed. That's not evil premades. That's bad/new players being bad/new players. When I get stomped, I don't blame the evil premades. I evaluate what I could have done better and recognize that when pugging, I have no right to complain if I don't attempt to organize the team. If I do try and organize the team and get ignored, then there's not much I could've done and I write the match off.

So for all you premade haters, you're not getting killed because of evil premades. You're getting killed because people suck at this game.

More reason that 4-mans shouldn't be matched with new players.

Even if they separate players on some basic level like this:

Cadets: 0-100 games.
Regulars: 101-500 games.
Vets: 501-1000 games.
Elites: 1001+ games.

The current system is like an MMO letting capped out veteran players run around in the newbie starting area continuously ****** them; it's not a good way to increase the player base and make money for the developers...