379 replies to this topic

[RussianWolf]

posted this yesterday in another thread.

Make it work similar to premium time.

Everyone starts off in the newbie queue with only solo drops as an option. (you'd see mostly trial mechs with a few owned as they get their bonuses)

Once you feel you are ready, hit a button and move to the veteran/group queue. But once you do, there is no going back.

This would allow the new guys to learn to play (as is so thrown around here) without being stomped endlessly AND prevent the veterans from farming them. Competition in the veteran/group queue would increase as you wouldn't have the new guys getting in the way as much.

[Drake Bloodbane]

The problem you all are describing is all due to lack of comunication. Sure thier always seams to be stupid [<-Edit] (appearently the other word theat means the same thing is a bleep word) players who run off on thier own and get themselves killed. I find I have done it myself a few times cause I think I have support and then my team isn't behind me anymore like I thougt they were.
Doesn't this game have a VOIP option in the options? I think it would be easy for pugs to comunicate with the 4mans if this option actually worked.
This game is reliant on teamwork and its impossible to have teamwork without communication. A pug should be able to match any game and be able to voice chat with thier teammates using a VOIP. This would eliminate much of the problems faced in 4man+pug drops.
So in my opinion the solution is something I haven't seen anyone else mention, the DEVS should develope a working VOIP for this game to improve communication between teams. That way any drop can instantly form cohesion if the players are smart enough to use it.
You cant type chat in the middle of a firefight, you do and you die.

Edited by Drake Bloodbane, 01 February 2013 - 06:54 AM.

[SGT Unther]

I run in 4 man teams because we can actually find a match in a 4 man team. The group I'm with tried an 8-man drop the other night and could not find a match in either conquest or assault.

I believe the problem that is happening for pugs is the game sometimes places 2 4-man teams on the same side. If they could somehow limits a max of 2 teams per match and 1 on each side I think would help a lot.

When 12-man matches come out a single 4 man team will have less of an effect on the outcome of a match.

As for the comments that the merc groups are a a bunch of kids with too much time on their hands, frankly you insult me and my group. The average age of members in the Ghost Warriors is about 30 years old. We all have real lives and do this for fun in our spare time and we've always said real life comes first in our group. Also it's not much effort to start up teamspeak when you start up mechwarrior and just about every casual group I've run across is friendly.

[Mawai]

I disagree.

Just have the matchmaker try to ensure that there are similar sized pre-made groups on both teams. It is then up to the pre-made groups to see which team can better organize the lone wolves they have acquired for the drop. The pre-made with the poorer organizational skills will likely lose.

With the exception of about 20 matches I have played entirely PUGs. My win/loss is 530 to 507. My K/D is at 1.7. So without the grouped matches I am running about 1:1 on W/L.

So .. no ... I don't find PUGs that bad (of course there are streaks where you get stomped 10 matches in a row that are very frustrating ... but in my experience not the norm).

However, the new player experience is a different story. In some ways the initial exposure to the game should be easier. The game needs a playable tutorial (apparently in the works - though I think it should have been in for open beta in the first place). The first few drops should ideally be with similarly experienced people (this should also be in the works with the ELO version of the matchmaker as long as they use low provisional ratings for the first few matches). Live tutorial matches with volunteers might also be useful ... kind of like the Rookie help channel and ISD in EVE onine ... if such could be organized. Anyway, player retention is the life blood of a free 2 play game ... so the new player experience is a crucially important long term aspect of the game.

[Mercules]

Ilwrath, on 01 February 2013 - 05:28 AM, said:

OK I'll be honest with you. We simply don't like the premade kind of players and because gaming is done for fun and general enjoyment we don't want to mix in with them. Its like stepping on dogcrap. Better avoid that.

What a blunt generalization. The VAST majority of premade players are similar to you. While there are your mouthbreathing, annoying, and socially inept people on TS the majority are everyday guys and gals looking to hang out and play a game for a bit. The ability to go, "Two Atlas on our right flank!" is really nice. That being said, I don't hop onto Teamspeak myself very often anymore. I used to because I had about 5-6 friends playing the game and we figured it wouldn't hurt to fill out the other two spots. Now that it is only 4 when we play we tend to just use Skype or our own Mumble.

Since schedules no longer match as well I now mostly PUG.

Sifright, on 01 February 2013 - 05:39 AM, said:

I love how much you guys twist and turn to justify a status quo which only benefits yourself.

truly you are the epitome of the selfish ***.

seamlessly integrated voice comms should be considered the STANDARD normal method of communication in a game like this.

If games from the 90s had integrated voice comms there is absolutely no reason this should be acceptable.

As for worrying about other high priority things being implemented there really isn't anything higher in priority than making sure the core of your game works well.

communication in a TEAM based game should be at the very top of that priority list.

Unless you don't believe this is a team based game?

There are integrated voice systems. None of you chose to use them. Form a group and the C3 does the rest, but if you want to drop with random people you get what you get. Yes, I agree that if they continue with the random drop they should implement something that gives the random drop group voice.

The issue with doing that is the future. Eventually we will have Community Warfare and you will be dropping with your faction. This means probably forming a group ahead of time. Why spend time and money on something you might obsolete if you complete the rest of the game?

Sifright, on 01 February 2013 - 05:59 AM, said:

The last time i got a group together for an 8 man we managed two games in a hour, before the group fell apart. There were three teams playing at the time and we were rotated between the two of them after failing to find a game 5 times in a row at the end the group splintered.

And this is the truth of why some of us don't play 8 man. Claiming it is fear is annoying. I can drop at least 4 times in an hour with myself and a friend or 3. If one of them has to go for 20 minutes to cook some food the other 3 of us can drop. We are not digging up 4 other people we don't know and having to wait on them and with 8 man you HAVE to have all 8 people to drop. 4 man is really 2-4 man.

Sifright, on 01 February 2013 - 06:02 AM, said:

Yes I am in a premade constantly stomping pugs. it happens any one claiming otherwise is full of crap.

If you think it is so wrong have the moral fortitude not to do it.

Ilwrath, on 01 February 2013 - 06:10 AM, said:

Most of the team being ECM mechs, especially more than two ECM Atlas. Enemy team blitzing in a blob. Very focused fire. How they move in general. Smart prioritizing of target. Well done flanks. The signs are not that hard to spot.

Bad premades can be very hard to spot but who cares about them?

None of these are evidence of a premade. If I think I have a group on my side I will ask and I know of at least one game where I've had 3 ECM Atlas and 3 ECM lights and none of us were in a group. I've also been in what I know was a total PUG where we went:

Me: Plan?
Player1: Um... we could rush them.
Me: Steam in 1 at a time? Yeah, that always works.
Player2 (in Atlas): Blob up on me and rush them?

That is just what we did and we totally caught them off guard.

I've also flanked teams with a tag-along, no communication just two of us swinging right around some terrain and coming in on their flank. Tactics doesn't just mean premade, it can also mean good players or even just lucky happenstance.

While Premades (who very often do have some experienced players in them) can and do change the flow of a battle it is childish to treat them like boogeymen. Losing because you were flanked does not mean it was a premade. Losing because the other side was all blobbed up and shot you one at a time as you came in doesn't mean it was a premade. Multiple ECM doesn't mean premade, in fact often the opposite since a premade can be sure they have a person or two with it and bring other mechs.



Also, people, 90% of the time when a game has in-game VOIP I use a third party VOIP. Why? Usually quality often because I already have it running and this is how I know my friends are online, they will IM/Call me. At that point we often go, "What do you want to play tonight?" and just go from there with no need to fire up the in-game voice.

Don't get me wrong, I think PGI should probably put VOIP into the random drops... but I think it isn't a priority for them because they don't foresee it being as needed in the future (right or wrong about that).

[Bguk]

Mycrus, on 01 February 2013 - 06:36 AM, said:

common PUGstompers... answer my post

i dare you

http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__1826249

Do you consider me a "pugstomper"? If so, then I will take the dare.

[Eric darkstar Marr]

So I have to say no to this, I drop with friends and clan mates. I am sorry so many of you are all alone in this world and have no friends to drop with.

You could you know always add people you play with or even better join an active clan.

I would also like to point out that I solo drop a lot and most games in PuGs I have to carry which is fine and my damage is between 950 to 1400+. I still lose games but it is rare now and it is normally because the other team totally out piloted us 4 forward dual flanks is a pain if you are all clumped up. Or I do not have a support mech near me to deal with lights.

I have since adapted though and have 4 MLs to pair with my LRM70/tag STK and Have less worries about lights circling me.

I know it can be a bother early on to run solo but the faster you join a clan the better off you will be

Final note YES x 1000 the need of a player skill based MMR of some type don't care if its BV/ELO whatever. That is the most painful aspect I guess for new players.

[Mycrus]

Bguk, on 01 February 2013 - 06:38 AM, said:

Do you consider me a "pugstomper"? If so, then I will take the dare.

i dunno, each of us will have to answer for ourselves?

Do you stay in 4-man exclusively to grind cbills?

Do you purposely run multiple ECM+SSRM mechs in your lance?

Me? Yup, I was (I have seen the error of my ways)-- how do you think I got all the mechs?

I would probably call myself a big time pugstomper (in the past) -- I was there in the 8 vs PUGs in CB / early OB

[Ilwrath]

Eric darkstar Marr, on 01 February 2013 - 06:40 AM, said:

So I have to say no to this, I drop with friends and clan mates. I am sorry so many of you are all alone in this world and have no friends to drop with.

Why do people bring up this silly argument again and again? There is no problem getting into a clan or guild or what you will call it in a game that supports it. Not teaming up is a choice we make.

Only teenagers have lots of close friends to game with. "Removed silly trolling"

Edited by Ilwrath, 01 February 2013 - 06:52 AM.

[Havyek]

Mycrus, on 01 February 2013 - 06:36 AM, said:

during peak hours Comstar is filled with 4-mans...

they are 'social' enough to find 3-players, but not 'social' enough to play 8s...

WHY? Because PUGstomping is fun and profitable




common PUGstompers... answer my post

i dare you

http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__1826249

Remember PUGstompers - in 8-man U DA PUG!!

The current 8v8 MM is hideous.

On the rare occasion my group actually has 8 players on right now, there is no matching of weight classes or tonnage, it's simply 8 players in a group vs. 8 players in a group.

We do from time to time run 8 Commandos just for fun.

[Roughneck45]

How much hand-holding do new players really need?

They desperatley need a proper tutorial for new pilots, but we don't need to cater to the lowest common denominator for our matches.

Maybe a solo que matchmaker would be good, but only PGI would know this from how many people are playing. Either way, no need to remove 4 mans.

[Havyek]

I just had a thought.


How about any player that's still earning a cadet bonus (and drops solo) gets matched against other players in the same situation.

[Ilwrath]

Roughneck45, on 01 February 2013 - 06:46 AM, said:

How much hand-holding do new players really need?

They desperatley need a proper tutorial for new pilots, but we don't need to cater to the lowest common denominator for our matches.

Maybe a solo que matchmaker would be good, but only PGI would know this from how many people are playing. Either way, no need to remove 4 mans.

Balance 4 mans. Enforce 1 premade at each side. Do not fill one side with pure pubs if premade present on other side. Never put two premades on one side unless two on the other side.

Should have been done in Phase 1.

Edited by Ilwrath, 01 February 2013 - 06:49 AM.

[Sifright]

Ilwrath, on 01 February 2013 - 06:44 AM, said:

. Or scum on the dole

Oh good, more of this disgusting attitude.

Right **** my earlier arguments I refuse to assist a side of any argument which makes those kind of comments.

******* digusting middle class tory scum :|

[Bguk]

Mycrus, on 01 February 2013 - 06:43 AM, said:

i dunno, each of us will have to answer for ourselves?

Do you stay in 4-man exclusively to grind cbills?

Do you purposely run multiple ECM+SSRM mechs in your lance?

Me? Yup, I was (I have seen the error of my ways)-- how do you think I got all the mechs?

I would probably call myself a big time pugstomper (in the past) -- I was there in the 8 vs PUGs in CB / early OB

Well, It looks like I'm not one then. And I think we all know the real stompers will never, ever reply. Because they just don't care as that is their fun.

[Dmitri Valenov]

Mycrus, on 01 February 2013 - 06:36 AM, said:

during peak hours Comstar is filled with 4-mans...

common PUGstompers... answer my post

The same day that 8 mans got their own queue is the day that I started using the Comstar TS3 server. I got into an 8 man team with some other random folks and...wait for it...... We still won. Not all the time, but about 8 out of 10 matches. I still try to move my groups up to 8 man when I notice that a few more peeps are in the LFG channel, but jumping in to another drop channel while they may be in the middle of a match would be a bit rude don't you think?

In general though this is what happens. I join the TS3 server, jump down to the LFG channel. Run a PUG match or two while chatting with anyone that drops in to the LFG channel until we get 4, then we form a group and start queuing up for group matches. Sorry if I don't want to wait another 15-20 minutes for another 4 people to join the channel. Since having a busy life is one of the favorite PUG excuses for not joining TS3, I'm sure you can understand...right?

Here's an idea though, if all of you super leet puggers joined the Comstar TS3 then we could run 8 man teams round the clock and no one could complain about 4 man PUG stomps. We could get back to complaining about things that matter. Like Steiner vs. Davion or Clans vs. Inner Sphere.

[Roughneck45]

Ilwrath, on 01 February 2013 - 06:48 AM, said:

Balance 4 mans. Enforce 1 premade at each side. Do not fill one side with pure pubs if premade present on other side. Never put two premades on one side unless two on the other side.

Should have been done in Phase 1.

Yeah, that would be good too.

The "pugstomp" QQ would still be posted though. As long as pugs lose matches, it will never end. So, it will never end.....

Edited by Roughneck45, 01 February 2013 - 06:51 AM.

[Bguk]

Ilwrath, on 01 February 2013 - 06:44 AM, said:

Why do people bring up this silly argument again and again? There is no problem getting into a clan or guild or what you will call it in a game that supports it. Not teaming up is a choice we make.

Because those of you who keep calling 4 mans the devil just can't understand it seems. Although your statement there shows you do understand it. Yet your posting history shows you don't. I really hope you do.

[Ilwrath]

Sifright, on 01 February 2013 - 06:49 AM, said:

Oh good, more of this disgusting attitude.

Right **** my earlier arguments I refuse to assist a side of any argument which makes those kind of comments.

******* digusting middle class tory scum :|

We are all middle class here. I should not be joking with that though. I have to blame too much coffee and soon works end.

[Rotaugen]

How many people complaining about 4 mans and saying they should only do 8 mans have actually TRIED to do an 8 man? We'll get 6 or 7 then spend 10 minutes trying to find someone we know to fil the other spots. We know the other 8 mans will probably be teams that know how to work together, and we don't want to run in with one or two randoms at that point. I spent an HOUR last night to get in two 8 man rounds. I could have had 4-5 4 man or pug games in that time. I do all three types, so I can see the perspective of each.