379 replies to this topic

[Sifright]

dervishx5, on 01 February 2013 - 07:11 AM, said:

Sure, but I'm talking from a premade 8 man vs. premade 8 man perspective, not pug vs. pre. Once you have 2 organized teams facing each other, the game gains a bit more finesse beyond being able to shoot well.

Well, i've not really experienced that maybe you could give some examples? I'm not going to say you are wrong but it's not what i've experienced.

Edited by Sifright, 01 February 2013 - 07:13 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Sifright, on 01 February 2013 - 07:09 AM, said:

WoW also used a custom built game engine.

Most of the work in a modern game is the game engine its self.

if you don't have to build the engine from the ground up it takes vastly less time to have usable builds.

edit: Most of my sour grapes is because i'm just burning out on the current map list. we only have four maps at the moment and it's just getting boring to play them over and over and over again.

plus I really am kind of annoyed at how rubbish the communication tool in the game are. I literally never bother with them. the text in the matches also fades out after just a few seconds any way making typing pointless even if you do bother.

Fair enough, how long have we been out of Alpha? I'm just saying we don't have even half of what the game said it will have when complete. Give it time.

[RussianWolf]

BDU Havoc, on 01 February 2013 - 06:45 AM, said:

The current 8v8 MM is hideous.

On the rare occasion my group actually has 8 players on right now, there is no matching of weight classes or tonnage, it's simply 8 players in a group vs. 8 players in a group.

We do from time to time run 8 Commandos just for fun.

Oh, so you want 8v8 to be BALANCED...... I get it.

scenario:
You get hired to drop on and capture a target. You are told that there will be 2 lances of mech defenders. What do you bring? How do you know what they will have? You might or might not. You could get intel that its 2 lights, 2 heavies and 4 assualts and the reality be that it was 8 heavies.

remember, Intel said that there were WMDs in Iraq. Never found.

Whiners going to whine about something.

its too hard
its not balanced
there's too much wait time
we can't find enough people (aka no one likes us)
They always bring all ECMs

Did I miss anything from the list of why the much asked for 8v8 isn't up to speed?

Fact is people complained that pugstomping was too easy, they needed better competition. You got your wish and people found it too hard to compete so dropped back to 4 mans. No sympathy here.

[dervishx5]

Sifright, on 01 February 2013 - 07:13 AM, said:

Well, i've not really experienced that maybe you could give some examples? I'm not going to say you are wrong but it's not what i've experienced.

Oh, well when the veteran teams from the Mechwarrior 4 days face each other, stuff like positioning and timing become more important than they normally are. The person in charge of the drop needs to be listened to, targets are called and focused down, etc. Certain parts on the maps are better for certain strategies (I wont elaborate here because that's revealing stuff I probably shouldn't), but yes being able to shoot your target still plays a large part.

[Livewyr]

Current problem with 8v8 is there is really only 2 mechs brought with consistency..

Raven 3L
Atlas D-DC

nobody gets creative because they don't have to.

[Mercules]

Sifright, on 01 February 2013 - 07:09 AM, said:

WoW also used a custom built game engine.

Most of the work in a modern game is the game engine its self.

if you don't have to build the engine from the ground up it takes vastly less time to have usable builds.

This is not always true. Our developers spend almost as much time coding AROUND some of the drawbacks of MSSQL we use as a back-end DB for our software as they would have had they grabbed an open source DB and customized then compiled it themselves.

[Sayyid]

First people screamed remove 8 man pre-mades, so they did. Now you want to remove 4 man pre-mades? I dont even play that much anymore, I havent downloaded the last patch last tuesday. The game is nothing more than WoT 8v8 in mechs. If I want to play with 4 friends I should be able to form a group. Sorry if you dont have friends that play the same games as you but 4man groups is the minimum.

[Sifright]

dervishx5, on 01 February 2013 - 07:17 AM, said:

Oh, well when the veteran teams from the Mechwarrior 4 days face each other, stuff like positioning and timing become more important than they normally are. The person in charge of the drop needs to be listened to, targets are called and focused down, etc. Certain parts on the maps are better for certain strategies (I wont elaborate here because that's revealing stuff I probably shouldn't), but yes being able to shoot your target still plays a large part.

ah see i consider that standard fare for any team game. Everything you mentioned there is the same kind of thing you see in eve online with corp battles. I was kind of expecting more MWO specific ideas.

Obviously calling targets is something that should happen but that happens in 4 man groups. but that isn't really very deep so to speak.

Edit: part of the problem is that fights are side vs side. Spawns are all clustered in the same spot.

I can't help but feel this game could benefit from adding extra spawn location bases and increasing the player count on each side to 16.

so that instead of a match being | vs |

It could be
_

_ _

_


edit: bah it removes white spaces from the post so much for that idea.


I just don't think positioning and calling targets is very tactically deep. If we had to coordinate reinforcements and defending dropship zones holding routes there would be a lot more tactical depth.

Edited by Sifright, 01 February 2013 - 07:24 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

CSJ Ranger, on 01 February 2013 - 07:10 AM, said:

If you made after 30 games in a heavy Mech after 5 minutes of playing time is still less than 70 damage, you MWO should leave, because then this game is not for you, just

in 7.5 hours of play time if you are not making over 70 damage...
...
...
In a Trial heavy Mech?

You need to have a bit more patience. I took almost 3 weeks (25+ hours a week) to be able to consistently break 400 damage on a non gaming laptop. With a Founders Atlas. Not everyone has cobra-like reflexes. Not everyone learns on the same curve.

[Mycrus]

SGT Unther, on 01 February 2013 - 06:38 AM, said:

The group I'm with tried an 8-man drop the other night and could not find a match in either conquest or assault.

BDU Havoc, on 01 February 2013 - 06:45 AM, said:

The current 8v8 MM is hideous. On the rare occasion my group actually has 8 players on right now, there is no matching of weight classes or tonnage, it's simply 8 players in a group vs. 8 players in a group.

Dmitri Valenov, on 01 February 2013 - 06:49 AM, said:

I still try to move my groups up to 8 man when I notice that a few more peeps are in the LFG channel, but jumping in to another drop channel while they may be in the middle of a match would be a bit rude don't you think?

ARMD primetime is GMT +8 to +12, we have mercs from various timezones but this is the time we are most active.

i invite you to join us in the NGNG TS3 server to enjoy structured 8v8 drops.

We have done this with many units (1stBBR, DHB, 9th, to name a few) and I tell you there is no sniggers/bragging & showboating... All we have is very very very very good games and a mutual respect of each others capabilities...

THIS is where the game shines - and I hope that each of you can experience this.

We have even dropped 8s with pilots in trial mechs -- just come and play as you are, you don't need to bring robotechs...

NGNG: Outreach TS3 server
Server: voip01.n1585.hypernia.net:9992
Password: mechwarrior
Channel: Australasian Royal Mechanised Division

Even if you are not a full team, we have ARMD mercs that are willing to drop with you and even under your command to fill an 8-man (I love killing other ARMD members).

Mercules, on 01 February 2013 - 06:57 AM, said:

So if you really want to hear about how my daughter's gymnastic meet went last weekend and how proud I am that she is actually competing in some of the matches as a Sophmore then I'll happily jump into your highly competitive 8 man group and chatter right over your "focus fire on Delta".

honestly, i would be happy to hear about your daughter's gym meet...

we aren't try hards... well not sure what happens when CW starts, but mostly we chat about family life among other things...

Edited by Mycrus, 01 February 2013 - 07:26 AM.

[Ace Kaller]

RussianWolf, on 01 February 2013 - 07:14 AM, said:

You could get intel that its 2 lights, 2 heavies and 4 assualts and the reality be that it was 8 heavies.

remember, Intel said that there were WMDs in Iraq. Never found.

No, that was **** Cheney. If **** Cheney told me there were 2 lights, 2 heavies, and 4 Assaults, I would believe there was probably an infantry squad as opfor and an army of carpetbaggers backing me up.

[dervishx5]

Sifright, on 01 February 2013 - 07:20 AM, said:

ah see i consider that standard fare for any team game. Everything you mentioned there is the same kind of thing you see in eve online with corp battles. I was kind of expecting more MWO specific ideas.

Well there are more MWO specific stuff, but Coca Cola doesn't give out its formula, so to speak.

[King Arthur IV]

just to be clear. we dont join premades to win. we join because pugs drop their balls at the drop-zone.

the reason i moved towards random premades was because of the lack of simple intuition. pugs dont like to engage or flank or anything, there is no back up and there is little focus fire. now, i can blame the pugs for being ****! because of a lack of co-ordination or i can find some people that want to play as a team. i was tired of game where people just dont want to move or everyone was lrm boating but didnt want to get their own line of sight.

iv been playing with random premades for a few days now and let me tell you, there are no big prematch plans and discussions. we drop and just follow each other around. it is fun because when you push, you dont push alone.

[MW Waldorf Statler]

most of these howler would even cry in a Solaris 1v1 because they lose against everything that has more skill than a single player bot ...Darwin Award ...the Selection is hard , you not learn?you can not coordinated a Fight against more as 1 Target ?you can not hold a target in the Cursor by moving ?you not read Messages? you die

Edited by CSJ Ranger, 01 February 2013 - 07:29 AM.

[Sifright]

dervishx5, on 01 February 2013 - 07:25 AM, said:

Well there are more MWO specific stuff, but Coca Cola doesn't give out its formula, so to speak.

my main problem is the lack of tactical objectives removes the need for much of the depth in how you array your forces.

We don't have to hold a zone so that we can get reinforcements.

Eve online you have interdiction spheres so that enemy ships coming into system can't join the battle you dont have anything like that in MWO because obviously the scale is much smaller and you can't get reinforcements. Its the lack of that kind of strategic background that makes the game a lot more shallow.

[Havyek]

Sifright, on 01 February 2013 - 07:20 AM, said:

ah see i consider that standard fare for any team game. Everything you mentioned there is the same kind of thing you see in eve online with corp battles. I was kind of expecting more MWO specific ideas.

Obviously calling targets is something that should happen but that happens in 4 man groups. but that isn't really very deep so to speak.

Certain tactics work well in 4 mans.

As example would be a few months ago. I was on TS3 in a PUG (4-man) piloting my Jenner. There was pretty much a stalemate with neither team really wanting to charge over the ridge in Frozen City.

I said on voice chat, someone type in group for everyone to charge over the ridge on my mark, I'm going to rush them from behind and see if I can get them to turn.

I charged into their backs, several assaults at the base of the ridge started to turn, their lights started to chase me, generally the whole team went JENNER!! and I told my team to go, someone on TS3 said in group chat to CHARGE and something miraculous happened. The rest of the team charged.

The first 2 assaults died in seconds from focused fire to their rear armour. Another had time to turn around and fire off a shot or 2 before it died, I came back from leading some of the enemy lights around and jumped on a medium, and it was generally a massacre from there.

My point is that tactics work. Communication works. Whether you're in a 4-man premade, just 3 other PUGs on VOIP or just by yourself, using the tools you have at hand works better than not using them.

This game needs a better way for solo players to communicate with the rest of the group. Chat windows should stay permanently active, in-game VOIP should be integrated yadda yadda. Use what we have available for now and you will be even better off when we get more.

[Joseph Mallan]

King Arthur IV, on 01 February 2013 - 07:25 AM, said:

just to be clear. we dont join premades to win. we join because pugs drop their balls at the drop-zone.

I joined cause I wanted to talk to people while I play the game. I was getting bored playing basically alone.

[Joe Mallad]

Livewyr, on 01 February 2013 - 07:18 AM, said:

Current problem with 8v8 is there is really only 2 mechs brought with consistency..

Raven 3L
Atlas D-DC
nobody gets creative because they don't have to.

this all day! I love 8 man games but more times than not, you end up running into another 8 man team that is running all cheese builds. It gets boring and stupid real quick. This is another reason why so many pre made 4 mans jump into pug games. Because there, at least people are taking mech and load outs they want to play and there is a better mix of mech running around and not all cheese builds.

Edited by Yoseful Mallad, 01 February 2013 - 07:34 AM.

[dervishx5]

Here's a good example about why I play this game with teams only:

Yesterday I was inside my Spider (yes I use Spiders, for fun drops), on River City Night, 2 manning. As such, I scouted ahead toward the enemy base down next to the Exxon Valdez, and managed to sneak up on the enemy team all shutting down in the water behind the cargo ship (an interesting idea I give them kudos for). Now if this had been a premade group, my warnings about the entire enemy team waiting for our team to go in and cap, and thus get swarmed, would have been headed. Instead my warnings, and eventual shouting in all caps of "if you go to cap, you WILL die", was laughed off by the pugs, and they all went in shouting banzai.

Well, you can guess the result. I was the last one alive, facepalming, and ran in to join my pug team in death to close the match.

It's stuff like this why I chose to play with premades. I like to have fun, but when pugs utterly refuse to use any form of strategy, it literally drives any rational individual to form up with teams that communicate with each other.

[Sifright]

BDU Havoc, on 01 February 2013 - 07:29 AM, said:

Certain tactics work well in 4 mans.

As example would be a few months ago. I was on TS3 in a PUG (4-man) piloting my Jenner. There was pretty much a stalemate with neither team really wanting to charge over the ridge in Frozen City.

I said on voice chat, someone type in group for everyone to charge over the ridge on my mark, I'm going to rush them from behind and see if I can get them to turn.

I charged into their backs, several assaults at the base of the ridge started to turn, their lights started to chase me, generally the whole team went JENNER!! and I told my team to go, someone on TS3 said in group chat to CHARGE and something miraculous happened. The rest of the team charged.

The first 2 assaults died in seconds from focused fire to their rear armour. Another had time to turn around and fire off a shot or 2 before it died, I came back from leading some of the enemy lights around and jumped on a medium, and it was generally a massacre from there.

My point is that tactics work. Communication works. Whether you're in a 4-man premade, just 3 other PUGs on VOIP or just by yourself, using the tools you have at hand works better than not using them.

This game needs a better way for solo players to communicate with the rest of the group. Chat windows should stay permanently active, in-game VOIP should be integrated yadda yadda. Use what we have available for now and you will be even better off when we get more.

I'm not saying coordination or tactics don't work.

I'm saying that the game lacks depth tactically and strategically speaking.

the old one mech makes them turn and then they get murdered from behind is a pretty old tactic. but it's still incredibly basic as things go and it only works against idiots.