379 replies to this topic

[Ken Fury]

One step in the right direction would be to only add a group to one side of the match IF another group of the same size is avaible for the other side. This means longer waits for groups but that's not a bid deal imvio.

Completly taking groups out would mean I wouldn't be able to play with my most beloved one and this would mean I'd rather play a simpler game like Arma.

[b00zy]

Joseph Mallan, on 01 February 2013 - 12:05 PM, said:

14! including a Damascus steel Nodachi Thanks for playing, Non-neck beard.

:| I have a full beard thank you very much now begone with you Sargent terrible complexion, and when you return bring me wrist brace and gaming glasses

[Jetfire]

Garth is basically right, pugging the first 50-100 matches of your MWO career is pretty brutal, I still remember the many 6-50 dmg matches in LRM C1's in Closed Beta. Should cadets drop together only? I would say so, should they get a training mission set already? Yes, look to War Thunder for an excellent example.

Once you graduate though, time to play with and against, in and out of groups. Let ELO float things from there.

[ExplodedZombie]

Remove the social features in this game and the game will die. The end.

Pugging does suck most of the time but lately I've been getting a 75% success rate because I try to stick with my teammates. You should try that, too. Maybe you'll win more often.

[Gammanoob]

Some of you people really overestimate the skill and abilities of the standard 4 man premade or even "clan" found in MWO.

Most of them are not even remotely competent and their tactical "genius" amounts to sticking together, focusing fire and rudimentary communications(which can be employed almost as easily in chat, "Fall back!") as they attempt to defeat players who often appear adverse to working together even on an instinctual level.

The biggest difference I find between the solo/group players is that on average the person who plays in a group will know not to rush in alone and will usually have a decent build.

Edited by Gammanoob, 01 February 2013 - 12:39 PM.

[MurnShaw]

I have to agree with Mischief. Yes, PUG mode is hard, but its rewards are sooooo sweet. My favorite games involve turning around (or attempting to turn around) a one sided stompfest. Just the other night I was doing River City Nights, last guy standing against three assault mechs. They realized I was too fast, so they parked at my base and took pot-shots at me as I ran out of the buildings to ping them in my jenner with my SMLs. I took two of them out before they cored me, but let me tell you, the next time I'm in that situation I'm going to take all three of them out.

And last night a raven managed to win by base capping (Conquest mode) against me and three other mechs because we were too busy hunting him instead of guarding points. I took my hat off to him when he got us, 750 to 640.

I enjoy and participate in pre-mades. But I know they make me soft. That's why I don't cry about how hard PUGing is. I relish its difficulty. Isn't that the kind of player you'd want in this game?

*EDIT* To address the OP's concerns, I don't think an easy mode for new players would be a bad idea. It would certainly help the casuals out. In LoL (Sorry for my constant comparisons. I only play 2 games. This and LoL) they have bot matches, and it's possible to level and earn in-game currency purely via bot matches. It really kills your skills versus players who level via human matches, but it does widen the audience of the game. I'm sure PGI is planning something similar, if not with bots then with ELO or Custom queues. This game is in beta, give the developers a chance to say, "We're done. Tell us what you think." before complaining about how they're doing everything wrong.

MischiefSC, on 01 February 2013 - 12:07 PM, said:

As a pug I really don't care about premades. It's not a big deal to me. I lose when they are on my side sometimes I beat them on the other side sometimes.

My biggest hope for Elo is to balance what other pugs are on my team. The best games I've played, the most enjoyable, have been when I've dropped with a team mostly full of vet puglies. I learn a LOT, they tend to have very well designed mechs (not boats, they don't pug well) and some brilliant tactics. Places to set up to snipe/stalk/spy from. Watching them move like a pack of hunting predators, cutting scouts and wanderers out from the pack and devouring them before boat-hunting.

Seriously. If Elo starts putting those guys into groups against premades you'll see a huge cry to see exactly what group the other side is dropping with, or cries of 'cheaters' and 'aimbots' when suddenly these people who were getting 2 or more kills every game and a 70% win rate suddenly are more like 0.75 and a 40% win rate.

The best premades will rise to the top and earn accolades accordingly. For those whos success is based on being very good at the tactics of taking advantage of a less skilled adversary for 70% of their games they're likely in for a surprise.

A rude, painful surprise.

Edited by MurnShaw, 01 February 2013 - 12:47 PM.

[silentD11]

Gammanoob, on 01 February 2013 - 12:33 PM, said:

Some of you people really overestimate the skill and abilities of the standard 4 man premade or even "clan" found in MWO.

Most of them are not even remotely competent and their tactical "genius" amounts to sticking together, focusing fire and rudimentary communications(which can be employed almost as easily in chat, "Fall back.")

Honestly, the biggest difference I find between the solo/group players is that on average the person who plays in a group will know not to rush in alone and will usually have a decent build.

The biggest advantage of a premade over a PUG is knowing that you have four people who aren't idiots and are not in trial mechs. All the other stuff is largely walking in a group and focusing on people who are already damaged... which is stuff you can do simply by paying attention to who's shooting what and not running off on your own.

Sure,there's other stuff that can increase this, but it's been my experience that most of the time nobody really bothers with it. It's more about knowing you don't have any riff raff and talking with friends. In fact most of our voice communication often has very little to do with what's happening in game and boils down to trash talk with random people sitting in the channel who aren't even in the game talking about whatever.

[Ihasa]

Mycrus, on 01 February 2013 - 06:36 AM, said:

during peak hours Comstar is filled with 4-mans...

they are 'social' enough to find 3-players, but not 'social' enough to play 8s...

WHY? Because PUGstomping is fun and profitable




common PUGstompers... answer my post

i dare you

http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__1826249

Remember PUGstompers - in 8-man U DA PUG!!

Wow, surely with ALL those 4 mans around it's can't be possible that it was me and some 4 man got stomped by 4 puggers and another 4 man! oh noes this needs to stop!

If the player count is as low as you content it to be, certainly that many 4 man teams are not running into 8 man pug teams over and over and over all night long.

[Gammanoob]

silentD11, on 01 February 2013 - 12:43 PM, said:

The biggest advantage of a premade over a PUG is knowing that you have four people who aren't idiots and are not in trial mechs. All the other stuff is largely walking in a group and focusing on people who are already damaged... which is stuff you can do simply by paying attention to who's shooting what and not running off on your own.

Sure,there's other stuff that can increase this, but it's been my experience that most of the time nobody really bothers with it. It's more about knowing you don't have any riff raff and talking with friends. In fact most of our voice communication often has very little to do with what's happening in game and boils down to trash talk with random people sitting in the channel who aren't even in the game talking about whatever.

Yes, exactly.

It's why playing too much in 4-mans is actually detrimental to your abilities.

It teaches you numerous bad habits and instills a false sense of capability. Since many people seriously seem to think that the average match they drop into with a 4-man is fair.

Sure there are great examples, when you run into a team of 8 good and veteran puggers who happen to be clever enough to work together and instinctively support/help each other but by and large it doesn't happen with any frequency.

Edited by Gammanoob, 01 February 2013 - 12:50 PM.

[Wired]

A couple of things.

First, the people who are calling for the dismantling of groups in general and anti-premades aren't really casuals. Casuals like to play with friends too.

There was a comment about Console mentality... It's easy to see who exactly has that. They'd be the people who are claiming all people on VOIP are whiny cussing 6 year olds - something unique to Halo. These are the people who have yet to realize that most if not all of the games released in the last decade with some form of multiplayer have given you the ability to play with friends AND to communicate with voice, and they've mistaken the lack of it currently in the game as a mandate that games shouldn't have communication. Especially team games.

These people are a minority in the gaming world and should be ignored.

Oh, and you people complaining about premades not going to 8v8s. That's because we all got bored of 3 raven 5 Atlas D-DC teams. It was boring. People do not field what they want, they field what will get them the easiest win. So 8 mans broke upback down to 4 mans so that we could play a game where what people used varied. No lack of skill, just being BORED with the unimaginative matchups.

[Mycrus]

Gammanoob, on 01 February 2013 - 12:50 PM, said:

Yes, exactly. It's why playing too much in 4-mans is actually detrimental to your abilities. It teaches you numerous bad habits and instills a false sense of capability. Since many people seriously seem to think that the average match they drop into with a 4-man is fair. Sure there are great examples, when you run into a team of 8 good and veteran puggers who happen to be clever enough to work together and instinctively support/help each other but by and large it doesn't happen with any frequency.

agree!

4-mans blunt your skills = something as simple as keeping arcs of fire open is forgotten because you don't really need it in 'casual' games.

Tank Boy Ken, on 01 February 2013 - 12:18 PM, said:

One step in the right direction would be to only add a group to one side of the match IF another group of the same size is avaible for the other side. This means longer waits for groups but that's not a bid deal imvio. Completly taking groups out would mean I wouldn't be able to play with my most beloved one and this would mean I'd rather play a simpler game like Arma.

hi there! give my regards to TGB

[Novawrecker]

Gammanoob, on 01 February 2013 - 12:50 PM, said:

It's why playing too much in 4-mans is actually detrimental to your abilities.

It teaches you numerous bad habits and instills a false sense of capability. Since many people seriously seem to think that the average match they drop into with a 4-man is fair.

So, droping with a group of people that help you get accsutomed to communicating, honing habits such as quickly adapting to a situation, focusing fire, growing used to tactics, keeping together, and overall team help and organization is a bad thing?

I SOOO want the number of your dealer cause he's selling you some seriously good shait.

[Mycrus]

Novawrecker, on 01 February 2013 - 01:07 PM, said:

So, droping with a group of people that help you get accsutomed to communicating, honing habits such as quickly adapting to a situation, focusing fire, growing used to tactics, keeping together, and overall team help and organization is a bad thing? I SOOO want the number of your dealer cause he's selling you some seriously good shait.

trust me it is too easy that it gets boring really quick as win after win racks up...

good for getting cash to fund your mech collection - but bad for the game long-term...

[silentD11]

Novawrecker, on 01 February 2013 - 01:07 PM, said:

So, droping with a group of people that help you get accsutomed to communicating, honing habits such as quickly adapting to a situation, focusing fire, growing used to tactics, keeping together, and overall team help and organization is a bad thing?

I SOOO want the number of your dealer cause he's selling you some seriously good shait.

I think this depends on who/how you play.

Sure, there is communication and you form good habits. But after a while there is a lot of building really stupid builds "hey guys watch this 7 PPC awesome and let's see how fast I can blow myself up hurhur", goofing off, not really paying attention to the game, team killing your friends from voice (or trying to shoot them and blaming it on someone else), talking about stuff completely unrelated to MWO, which only increases as the night goes on and various people get progressively more intoxicated.

Despite all this you can still win because you're generally free of trial mechs, people who can't aim, people who run off on their own, and the various other problems that plague pubbing.

Not all premades are the same, but I think people have a vastly wrong idea of just what goes on over voice coms.

[Fastidious]

silentD11, on 01 February 2013 - 12:43 PM, said:

The biggest advantage of a premade over a PUG is knowing that you have four people who aren't idiots and are not in trial mechs.

Somewhat true, but I also think a lot of it has to do with the fact people face some peer pressure to perform decently when grouped on voice. No one wants to be "that guy" who always dies and does 50 damage. Dropping solo it's all anonymous strangers more or less. On voice servers you often get to know people over time and they have a reputation or you can expect a certain level of play out of them.

[UrbatOrbi]

i look at this comunity - crysis3 comes up

[Novawrecker]

silentD11, on 01 February 2013 - 01:20 PM, said:

But after a while there is a lot of building really stupid builds "hey guys watch this 7 PPC awesome and let's see how fast I can blow myself up hurhur", goofing off, not really paying attention to the game ....

Funny, I tend to run into these afformented idiots only during PUGs ....

[Death Mallet]

Don't eliminate the 4 mans.

Just lump them in with the 8 mans and keep a 'solo' queue, and a 'group' queue.

[xX_Nero_Xx]

best part of not being a pug is you can call you rfriend out when hes being a ***** and adn then make fun of him when hes doing something stupid and get a great laugh for the rest of the day at his stupidity .


that way it doesnt happen all the time

[MechyMcMecherson]

No.