625 replies to this topic

[Rift Hawk]

Sifright, on 07 February 2013 - 02:02 PM, said:

The point is that even semi-competent usage of the catapult A1 turns into a death machine. When a catapult A1 catches two assault mechs off guard at close range he shouldn't be able to kill both mechs with ease.

The A1 can do so with little difficulty.

That is why the A1 is over powered.

The maps favour this outcome occurring because of the masses of cover.

I can accept that the A1 should kill an assault mech it gets the jump on in a one on one, but taking on two assault mechs at the same time even with the element of surprise should not be a a guarantee of two dead mechs like it is currently.

talking about a team focus firing the A1 down doesn't logically make sense, in that you are right this will kill the mech faster. It will also kill every other mech just as fast. Nothing is stopping multiple A1s from working together.

me and some guys I know have tried just that. There is nothing the other team can do when you have three A1s working together with an ECM mech to cover their one real weakness.

it is literally to the point where the only mechs on the field left that worry me are AC/20 cats or other A1s

I can't argue this at all. Your absolutely right. Multiple A-1s working together is generally a win. 2-3 of them working as a team, you really can't do anything against it.

Though I think perhaps missile damage needs to be tuned down or perhaps limit the boating of weapons. About a month ago I made a post in a thread I can no longer find but I'll just sum it up. Being able to fit AC-20s where there are stock machine guns in the K-2 is kind of stupid. There really should be some sort of limit on what you can fit where. Other than the fairly unlimited availability of weapon placement currently in the game.

I like the idea of small, medium, and large hardpoints over the Laser, Ballistic, Missile that currently exist.

Small hardpoints, like on the K-2 would be where the machine guns are. You could put on MGs, small lasers, small pulse lasers of AC-2s. You wouldn't be able to fit AC-20s there.

Relating to the A-1, you could seperate into 2 small, 2 med, and 2 large hardpoints and it would at most be able to fit 2 SRM2, 2 SRM4, and 2 SRM6. That or have a mix of LRM and SRM.

I know this is an unpopular point of view, as it limits the creativity of mech creation but I would say differently. Though until the boating issue is solved, All we can do is make suggestions. No matter how unlikely or unfavored.

Edited by Imperial X, 07 February 2013 - 04:06 PM.

[ConnorSinclair]

A1 drops again, enjoy

[Codejack]

The problem isn't the mech, the problem is that the game mechanics are hideously unbalanced and the only thing PGI knows how to do is cast Summon Bigger Fish.

[Adrienne Vorton]

Imperial X, on 07 February 2013 - 04:03 PM, said:

I can't argue this at all. Your absolutely right. Multiple A-1s working together is generally a win. 2-3 of them working as a team, you really can't do anything against it.

Though I think perhaps missile damage needs to be tuned down or perhaps limit the boating of weapons. About a month ago I made a post in a thread I can no longer find but I'll just sum it up. Being able to fit AC-20s where there are stock machine guns in the K-2 is kind of stupid. There really should be some sort of limit on what you can fit where. Other than the fairly unlimited availability of weapon placement currently in the game.

I like the idea of small, medium, and large hardpoints over the Laser, Ballistic, Missile that currently exist.

Small hardpoints, like on the K-2 would be where the machine guns are. You could put on MGs, small lasers, small pulse lasers of AC-2s. You wouldn't be able to fit AC-20s there.

Relating to the A-1, you could seperate into 2 small, 2 med, and 2 large hardpoints and it would at most be able to fit 2 SRM2, 2 SRM4, and 2 SRM6. That or have a mix of LRM and SRM.


I know this is an unpopular point of view, as it limits the creativity of mech creation but I would say differently. Though until the boating issue is solved, All we can do is make suggestions. No matter how unlikely or unfavored.

honestly, dont really care about the 2 ballistics there anymore.. i can fit 4 erppcs if i want to

plus the limitation that is often suggested would turn things around, not solve anything... it would just mean that certain chassis are plain better than others... by what will you dtermine what a "small" mount is? by what was fit there in the stock variant? what about the mechs that have slots for certain types, but don´t have a weapon there in the first place? what kind of mount is this putative weaponslot?

Fenix0742, on 03 February 2013 - 09:09 AM, said:

6 missile slots = 3 SRM6
5 missile slots = 2 SRM6 + 1 SRM 4

Problem solved guys.

yea and now explain someone who drives a mech with only 1 missleslot that he can only put at best 1 srm 4 on it... or an LRM 5 ... that´ll be the next QQ round for the following weeks then...

(posts merged)

Edited by Adrienne Vorton, 08 February 2013 - 05:17 AM.

[Butane9000]

Shoot the ears. Neuter him and voila! You're down one splatter cat to worry about.

[Elandyll]

Maybe, like it was at one time envisionned/ suggested, the solution would be to implement 2 types of Hardpoints?
1 for "Small/ Medium" only type weapons, and 1 for "Heavy" only type weapons?

An A1 could have 4 "Heavy" only slots, and 2 "Small/Medium", allowing for 4 LRM 10/15/20, and 2x SSRM/ SRM4 / SRM6/ LRM 5 ? Or 2 Heavy and 4 Small if needd, but the A1 has never been about close range warfare.

In other mechs it could also correct insane builds that would make no sense in "reality" (like zombifying a mech to free tons and slots), but made deadly combos in reality (like a light/ medium with Gauss Rifles and AC20s when they were not supposed to be able to equip. The Hunchback being a notable exception).

Edited by Elandyll, 08 February 2013 - 08:42 AM.

[Thorstine]

I had a thought about this after I woke up this morning. I believe that what we are seeing is something along the line of the evolution of the game. People will find counters to the splat cat and they will start to diminish in threat. Because of that people will move on from the splat cat. However, this is affected by the amount of content PGI can push out.

[cyberFluke]

Scratx, on 01 February 2013 - 08:34 AM, said:

So your solution to a mix-max build is to cripple every build possible with that mech. Bravo.

No, the A1 Catapult is fine. If you don't like the mega-SRM'ing, stay out of range. Plenty of weapons vastly outrange them. And if your real problem is people teamworking with them, then the obvious counter is to teamwork right back at them.

This.

The problem with an A-1 boating "Standard" SRMs is between your keyboard and your chair I'm afraid.

Elandyll, on 08 February 2013 - 08:40 AM, said:

Maybe, like it was at one time envisionned/ suggested, the solution would be to implement 2 types of Hardpoints?
1 for "Small/ Medium" only type weapons, and 1 for "Heavy" only type weapons?

An A1 could have 4 "Heavy" only slots, and 2 "Small/Medium", allowing for 4 LRM 10/15/20, and 2x SSRM/ SRM4 / SRM6/ LRM 5 ? Or 2 Heavy and 4 Small if needd, but the A1 has never been about close range warfare.

In other mechs it could also correct insane builds that would make no sense in "reality" (like zombifying a mech to free tons and slots), but made deadly combos in reality (like a light/ medium with Gauss Rifles and AC20s when they were not supposed to be able to equip. The Hunchback being a notable exception).

This old chestnut? I tried this one on to deal with gauss cats back in closed beta, but was told it was a stupid idea. gl

Edited by cyberFluke, 08 February 2013 - 08:46 AM.

[Dock Steward]

I'm not reading 24 pages of this, so sorry if I repeat what others have said. The A1 has all missile hardpoints. Try finding an effective loadout that isn't boating something. The closest I came was loading 2x LRMs, 2x SRMs, and 2x SSRMs. Still a boat really. It's how the mech is made. If they limited the torso twist I really wouldn't care. I'm pretty sure it wouldn't have any major effect on my effectiveness. If you go restricting hardpoints by some size limitation, you'd have to do that with every mech. Have fun then. What would be the point of customizing anything when you restrict the build that much. If you restrict the hardpoints by size on the A1, you'd essentially make it so there are only one or two possible builds. LAME. The problem with the A1 is that ECM turned the game into a brawl-fest and the A1 can be an amazing brawler. It makes frequent appearances right now. When you see the community shift away from ECM a bit (either due to an ECM nerf or more ECM counters) you will more than likely see a slight shift away from the A1.

[QuantumButler]

3:00 for pure balance.

[MaddMaxx]

Sinnersaix, on 05 February 2013 - 12:25 PM, said:

Folks, just wait for Clan Streak SRM 6...then you have a new reason to QQ over this Mech.

Year Availability IS = 3058

Pssst. It is currently 3050, the Year of the Snake.

[Ripnfly]

If they are going 86 they have an XL people knock it out. Generally you can snipe an ear from range and greatly reduce the threat of splat cats as well. If 86 is a problem play something equally as fast and just run away and kite them through your team.

The biggest problem is this mech has the biggest right hook in the game right now and people dont like to back off and play defensive go backwards and use the map and terrain to make it difficult.

[Ripnfly]

Another problem were running into currently is people are using mechs for roles they are not used for generally because we have a very limited number of mechs.

[wanderer]

Bleys295, on 01 February 2013 - 08:33 AM, said:

Really this comes down to weapon "boating". The catapults just have a large number of missile slots.

The -A1 is the perfect method to insure missile weapon balance. If you can't break it on an -A1, it isn't broken. If you can, then fix it until you can't on an -A1, and all is well.

[Targetloc]

The problem isn't with the A1. It's with SRM6's functioning like an LBX15 for only 3 tons.

The mech seems fine as long as you stay more than 100m away from it and the damage is actually getting spread out across multiple sections like SRMs are intended to do.

The problem is when there's more than one, or they wait for you to engage another mech before rushing in.

Mechs are designed to be able to take a bunch of hits. That's what makes it more Battletech than FPS. It's why they doubled armor. And that's why it's damn hard to core a smart Cat to death before he's right up in your grill.

And then he can 1 or 2-shot you in 4 seconds or less. Which is counter to the intended functionality (mech being able to take a bunch of hits)


Fix is simple. Normalize SRM damage spread more between ranges.

Give them big, bloomy explosions so even if all the projectiles hit in the same spot because you jammed your cat's face into the guy's crotch, the explosion still spreads across multiple sections.

Damage spread is a straight necessity of balancing their current DPS per ton.

[QuantumButler]

wanderer, on 08 February 2013 - 11:30 AM, said:

The -A1 is the perfect method to insure missile weapon balance. If you can't break it on an -A1, it isn't broken. If you can, then fix it until you can't on an -A1, and all is well.

Making the missiles useless on anything that boats fewer missiles than an A1.

Perfect plan, let's make srms worthless on Jenners, centurions, hunchbacks, and even Atlases.

If you balance weapons around one broken chassis, then they will, once balanced for that chassis, ONLY be balanced when used on that chassis.

How about we fix the broken as hell catapult chassis instead, noteably the tiny side torsos that make taking XL engines practically risk free.

And if you say "no it's not practically risk free" then you're lying or delusional.

[Asseri]

Oh, they are mighty annoying alright but by no means they are broken. They pretty much have to be within 150m to destroy you quickly. If you can keep the distance or stay in cover they are at disadvantage (although I agree that it's hard to keep the distance thanks to their speed and jumpjets).
But, I can beat them with my centurion and I can beat them in my awesome. In fact, I think there's very few mechs I own that cant beat them in any situation. Surely they've beat me many times aswell but most of the times it's when they sneak up on you. And that's exactly what they are best for. Swoop in when the enemy is distracted or havent seen you, blow their back to smithereens and go after another prey.

ps. I dont own or never have own a catapult.

[Kurshuk]

I run my A-1 almost every day since August.

I don't play it a lot, usually as the first or last match of the day.

Pros:
It's fast, I use a 300, so it's not as fast as some, but it's pretty quick for a heavy.
It has jump jets (especially after the fix, but I miss the old JJs new ones seem too short lived to coast over low points on the map.)

The damage is good and 90 is a lot to dump into a target, but lately the damage seems to be registering strangly, so now I fire one arm or the other instead of a straight alpha, or I do chain fire. The trick to using the A-1 is to know the ranges the SRMS tend to converge. They don't spread linearly like I would expect. The shoot out in a group, spread huge, then converge, then spread some, converge and then spread to 270 where they detonate. I'm not giving the ranges away, play a couple hundred matches until you know at a glance which target is best when they're at 80, 90, 100, or 120 meters.

Cons:
Vulnerable. The ears can't take a lot of punishment, if you're landing hits on my mech that's almost always a CT hit or the ears. ST is very small on the cat which lends to why so many people run XL. If you're really looking for a nerf, here is where I would start. I run XL engines with impunity because no one has ever demolished a ST on my cat with the ear attached. If the ear is gone I'm already 1/2 as effective anyway.

I like mechwarrior. I like MWO. I play a good amount and I'm good at spreading that damage across the mech, but even I lose ears fairly frequently. Sometimes I'll face targets directly and stop trying to get them to aim for headshots or CT shots. Good pilots finish shearing off the ear.

Distance. This is somewhat countered by the speed the mech has, but only when coupled with agressive active piloting. You can not plod your way straight into a battle and expect to make it to the battle with you stuff intact. LRMS outrange the SRMS by a factor of 4. LLs by 2.

I can't count the times I've been called cheese when I spent 2 minutes of the game sneaking up one someone. Running along a sheer wall with no cover on my side or back. Exposing my equipment and myself to excessive risk because I have to be point blank to be effective. It takes skills to run an A-1 just like any other mech. If you're good you'll always top the damage, but remember it's a misnomer. 60-65% of your hits are all over the mech past 100m, not hitting the CT. 500 damage in a sniper rig hitting headshots and ct hits is worth 1500 damage from an A-1 throwing missiles everywhere randomly.

I think it's a fun rig, it gives me something that doesn't require a lot of weapon group thought so I can concentrate on improving my piloting and jump jetting.

See you on the battlefield.
Kurshuk
Alexi.Kurshuk@gmail.com

[Stingz]

Kurshuk, on 08 February 2013 - 12:21 PM, said:

Distance. This is somewhat countered by the speed the mech has, but only when coupled with agressive active piloting. You can not plod your way straight into a battle and expect to make it to the battle with you stuff intact. LRMS outrange the SRMS by a factor of 4. LLs by 2.

Cover, speed, and ECM remove this weakness easily. Piloting an ECM light mech around maps can give you a good idea of where people swarm the most towards.

Jump jets also add mobility, but put more heat on your mech. Extremely helpful for ambushes/surprise attacks, turning, escapes, and in general getting around.

Edited by Stingz, 08 February 2013 - 01:35 PM.

[therealswilly]

SpajN, on 02 February 2013 - 07:35 AM, said:

Also you gotta understand there should be builds thats powerful at one thing and weak at other things, if you nerf every build to average you get a shallow game.

Then what is the HBK-4SP good for?

Because I'm a HBK-4SP pilot and I get completely destroyed by these ******** because I'm using my mech as it was designed and balanced as. Putting LRMs on a 4SP neuters half of its strength, putting on larger lasers is possible but you they're not nearly as strong as getting 6 SRM6's to the CT. Also, those arms come off really quickly.

So what the **** am I supposed to do when I clearly am driving a brawler mech and I'm fighting a mech that's filled with cheese? Especially since it can keep up with me with its ******* head moving around like a ******** owl or the fact it can jump turn on me.

Tell me o' great gods of Mechwarrior, what am I supposed to do?

If I hit lights, I get destoryed by Streaks, if I go up against heavies I thank my stars they're hopefully not gauss filled or something like that. The only mech that I don't ******* fear is the Centurian or other Hunchbacks, hell, ATLAS' are less scary than a ******* CataGauss with Gauss rifles or a Splatpault.

The big thing with a skull for a head is less scary then these two little *******.

Edited by therealswilly, 08 February 2013 - 01:48 PM.