111 replies to this topic

[Rokuzachi]

I agree in a way about the weapons.

I find myself equipping from that short list on almost all of my mechs. I can't say if they're the best or not, but certainly, they are the easiest to achieve results with. Some builds combine ML/SRM6/UAC5 and I think the synergy between those 3 weapons is extreme, and is probably close to the 'ideal' balanced loadout in terms of capable ranges, damage over time and burst. When I roll out in my 2X with that setup, I can actually take on dangerous boat/gimmick builds with a moderate amount of success, instead of just getting blown apart in one of my Frankenmech loadouts. Gauss is good, but the tonnage is high and the weapon falls apart when sneezed on, so I don't tend to use it.

[Five oh Five Squat]

Don't feed the troll.
There are plenty of other viable builds that don't run ECM or just those weapons. QQ

[RG Notch]

Buh Bye!

[Pugastrius]

Butane9000, on 01 February 2013 - 04:09 PM, said:

And I have to ask you a question, have you never been killed by a Gauss Cat? A 4 LL Flame or Cataphract?

You generally shouldn't be dying to Gauss cats with as much ground clutter that exists on every map.

As for the LL boats: As I mentioned in my OP equipping more than 2 LLs usually eats up more weight than the extra damage justifies. You will certainly do more damage over the course the battle by dropping down to 2 and increasing your heat capacity.

Butane9000, on 01 February 2013 - 04:09 PM, said:

UAC5's are very nice, but they do jam considerably more then they used too which can leave you high and dry without a large source of damage.

UACs provide the best of a lot of worlds, massive range, extremely high burst, and solid consistent damage.

Quote

Large lasers were buffed a few months ago and appear to be getting another buff to their heat shortly to get them in line with the other lasers.

I assume you don't actually mean Large Lasers but rather large energy weapons (PPCs, ER LLs, ER PPCs, LPLs, etc.). I already took the planned buffs of these weapons into account. Regular LLs are not going to be getting buffs.

Quote

Double heat sinks are also tough for an assault to really warrant due to the loss of critical space.

Every mech is better served having DHS. Every... one...

Quote

Ferro Fibrous is pretty decent in it's own right when used properly

No, it's terrible, just terrible. Can it improve the extremely light mechs? Maybe... but it needs to be completely overhauled to make it more useful to a wide swath of mechs.

Quote

hmmmmm... wonder why I can use almost any chassis and get at least 1-2 kills... with virtually any weapon system. I must be SPECIAL!

You're confusing being a skilled pilot and mech strength.
Can a non-optimal mech still do well? Absolutely. Does that mean it's not a sub-optimal mech? No.

You'll notice that I chose my words very carefully when commenting on mechs and weapons. I didn't say that you can't get kills or that you're destined to lose. I said your team would be better off if you piloted a different mech. By using something else, you're handicapping yourself.

Edited by Pugastrius, 01 February 2013 - 04:28 PM.

[Ignatz22]

WAAAAAAAA!!!


Ok, you're OBVIOUSLY better than many of us, and MAYBE some of your points have merit, but WELCOME TO REALITY. Remember when Richard Petty romped all over everyone else in NASCAR? Yep, he was GOOD. He also had the BEST CAR and he cheated a bit, but life went on, others bested him at times and revelled in their rising to a seemingly insurmountable challenge. Remember when the REAL Mini won the Monte Carlo rally, or the Morgan three-wheeler bested the Hispano-Suiza?? David NEVER stands a chance, Life Isn't Fair, the OTHER variants NEvER equal the 3L if you play the 3L well....so quit. Gee, I suck Big Time, and you guys really enjoy alpha striking me, but I ain't quitting. One feller said he didn't wanna' be on a team with me; Fine, I quit the group. I'm not good enough for you, and obvioulsy most of the Mechs the Development teams from the board game to MWO spent so much time to create aren't up to your standards. Remember, in the Lore, when the Invasion DID come, how the Inner Sphere was bested everywhere by Superior Clan Mechs? I suppose you wouldn't want to be Inner Sphere then, either. I suppose you'd just find a way to acquire the Best CLAN mech, run up the modules, then never play the other variants because they might not help your win/loss score.
Get real.
Drop weights will dictate what mechs get to the battle, and I doubt they'll all be Atlases and Raven 3Ls.
If you think your team is being held back, I can let you have some links to teams who want lesser players with mechs you shun, as they will even take ME and MY Commandos.
Quit if you want, but if all goes even partially to plan, this could be the most immersive gaming experience ever.
If you're better than everyone else, then step up and become a Team Leader, guide we Noobs, make a few friends, and keep alive a game that is only in development.

Or just leave. You'll miss when the Other Mech Gladiators blast me to bantha pudu, but hey, theyr's always Lost Girls and How I Met Your Mother, right?

[herosson]

SilentWolff, on 01 February 2013 - 03:46 PM, said:

My god OP, you sir, are FAIL. About the only thing you posted that is even somewhat true is the map variety. The rest is you just being a bad MW player.

Really.........that is your reply, its so pointlessly stupid I had to let you know.

Edited by herosson, 01 February 2013 - 04:34 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Pugastrius, on 01 February 2013 - 04:22 PM, said:

You generally shouldn't be dying to Gauss cats with as much ground clutter that exists on every map. [/size]

As for the LL boats: As I mentioned in my OP equipping more than 2 LLs usually eats up more weight than the extra damage justifies. You will certainly do more damage over the course the battle by dropping down to 2 and increasing your heat capacity.


UACs provide the best of a lot of worlds, massive range, extremely high burst, and solid consistent damage.


I assume you don't actually mean Large Lasers but rather large energy weapons (PPCs, ER LLs, ER PPCs, LPLs, etc.). I already took the planned buffs of these weapons into account. Regular LLs are not going to be getting buffs.


Every mech is better served having DHS. Every... one...


No, it's terrible, just terrible. Can it improve the extremely light mechs? Maybe... but it needs to be completely overhauled to make it more useful to a wide swath of mechs.


You're confusing being a skilled pilot and mech strength.
Can a non-optimal mech still do well? Absolutely. Does that mean it's not a sub-optimal mech? No.

You'll notice that I chose my words very carefully when commenting on mechs and weapons. I didn't say that you can't get kills or that you're destined to lose. I said your team would be better off if you piloted a different mech. By using something else, you're handicapping yourself.

interesting... since when I use either mech described I usually do middle of the pack damage, but using any Cataphract, my Founders Altas (better energy hpoints than the DDC) my YLW or FLAME, is when I tend to do my best, often times topping the leaderboard (and sometimes still abysmally sucking).

So, seems like when I drive a Centy, Phract or Flame, I am doing my team a favor.. since I do BETTER in them.

Which is the point.. many many pilots do BETTER than in the "optimal" mechs you list, which TBH are usually just "crutch" mechs used by middling pilots to make themselves THINK they are good. I have been greatly enjoying introducing Raven-3Ls to my Pontiac AC/20 since they lost their precious lagshield......

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 01 February 2013 - 04:37 PM.

[WolvesX]

Pugastrius, on 01 February 2013 - 03:31 PM, said:

So I’ve posted quite a bit, so I thought I would fill in the developers why I’ve decided (at least temporarily) to put MWO on the back burner.

Mech Variety: In the current state of the game, there are very few legitimate mechs that can be played without feeling like you’re gimping your team. Here is the short list:

Two mechs… that’s it. If you’re using anything other than these two mechs you’re probably hurting your team more than you’re helping them. In my opinion PGI really needs to stop introducing more mechs and make sure every mech they have introduced is actually useful.

Weapon Variety: Even after implementing the upcoming changes there are still very few useful weapons. Here’s the short list:

3 Weapons (and a 4^th if you count fillers) That’s it… If you have a different weapon on your mech, you’re hurting your potential.

Upgrades:


Modules: They are absolutely terrible. Everyone of them. Considering it takes absolutely forever to build up the GXP to get them, this really does need to be said.

Map Variety: I don’t really mind playing the same map over and over, but I’m probably the minority. The problem really comes in that it doesn’t matter which map you’re on, or what the goal of the map is (assault or conquest), it is going to devolve into a close-quarters brawl. Every time, without fail.

PuGs and Premades: I regularly play both sides of this line and the fact of the matter is, PGI needs to match pre-made sizes. If one team has a premade of 4, then the other team gets a group of 4. It’s as simple as that.

The ELO system isn’t going to fix it, unless PGI is going store two ELOs (one for solo queuing and one for group queuing). All it’s going to do is force people to only do one or the other.

MC Prices: Because I got several months of enjoyment from the game (and I’m a fan of the franchise) I donated my $50, but that’s all I’ll ever give. Why do I say donated? Because the prices are on everything else are just too high… way too high across the board.

I’m sure there is a lot more that I just forgot about, but this is more than enough for them to work on.

So much truth! I like you!

[Floormat]

Ignatz22, on 01 February 2013 - 04:28 PM, said:

Quit if you want, but if all goes even partially to plan, this could be the most immersive gaming experience ever.
If you're better than everyone else, then step up and become a Team Leader, guide we Noobs, make a few friends, and keep alive a game that is only in development.

Best advice I've ever seen in these forums. Looks like it's sink or swim time OP!

Edited by Floormat, 01 February 2013 - 05:07 PM.

[Tennex]

people use gauss all the time.

[Taizan]

Floormat, on 01 February 2013 - 05:06 PM, said:

Ignatz22, on 01 February 2013 - 04:28 PM, said:

Quit if you want, but if all goes even partially to plan, this could be the most immersive gaming experience ever.
If you're better than everyone else, then step up and become a Team Leader, guide we Noobs, make a few friends, and keep alive a game that is only in development.

Best advice I've ever seen in these forums. Looks like it's sink or swim time OP!

The only part I'm missing in this advice ( yes I am a bit nit-picky here) is that OP can decide to come back at any time, maybe avoid the forums for a while and just enjoy the (hopefully by then) evolved game.

[IamTheEggMan]

Thank you for your OPINION. Now I'll just go back to stomping "optimal" mechs with my sub-optimal weapons.....


Oh yeah, can I have all your stuffz?

[MWHawke]

Pugastrius, on 01 February 2013 - 03:31 PM, said:

So I’ve posted quite a bit, so I thought I would fill in the developers why I’ve decided (at least temporarily) to put MWO on the back burner.

Mech Variety: In the current state of the game, there are very few legitimate mechs that can be played without feeling like you’re gimping your team. Here is the short list:

Two mechs… that’s it. If you’re using anything other than these two mechs you’re probably hurting your team more than you’re helping them. In my opinion PGI really needs to stop introducing more mechs and make sure every mech they have introduced is actually useful.

Weapon Variety: Even after implementing the upcoming changes there are still very few useful weapons. Here’s the short list:

3 Weapons (and a 4^th if you count fillers) That’s it… If you have a different weapon on your mech, you’re hurting your potential.

Upgrades:


Modules: They are absolutely terrible. Everyone of them. Considering it takes absolutely forever to build up the GXP to get them, this really does need to be said.

Map Variety: I don’t really mind playing the same map over and over, but I’m probably the minority. The problem really comes in that it doesn’t matter which map you’re on, or what the goal of the map is (assault or conquest), it is going to devolve into a close-quarters brawl. Every time, without fail.

PuGs and Premades: I regularly play both sides of this line and the fact of the matter is, PGI needs to match pre-made sizes. If one team has a premade of 4, then the other team gets a group of 4. It’s as simple as that.

The ELO system isn’t going to fix it, unless PGI is going store two ELOs (one for solo queuing and one for group queuing). All it’s going to do is force people to only do one or the other.

MC Prices: Because I got several months of enjoyment from the game (and I’m a fan of the franchise) I donated my $50, but that’s all I’ll ever give. Why do I say donated? Because the prices are on everything else are just too high… way too high across the board.

I’m sure there is a lot more that I just forgot about, but this is more than enough for them to work on.

I use an Atlas-D.

I use Large Lasers and AC-5s (GASP!! AC-5?? Not UAC-5??)

I max out my Modules.

Yes, we need more Maps.

I try to coordinate Pug drops.

I have bought my Mechs using CB.

[Syncline]

Don't let the door hit your *** on the way out. I don't like that players leave the game, but I like even less having narrow-minded, inflexible, whiny people to play with.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

He's technically correct. I understand the replies saying "I kick *** in (Insert this here)", or whatever variation.

But I suspect many of you don't play MMO's. One of the key things in games such as this is the meta game. The meta game in Mechwarrior involves load-outs and ECM.

It's actually quite a bit like WoW's talent trees and classes. There was always one class with a specific talent tree that would be better at doing damage than every other class. That's not to say the other classes couldn't come and contribute, but that one class was always in higher demand and received preference in raiding.

So lets say the rogue using a backstab style build was the best in WoW. Well that would be the Atlas DC here. And while you can still bring a mage and win the raid, just like you can bring a stalker and win the match, you are still technically not playing the game at it's most optimal level.

Which is why a lot of the 8-mans see a lot of the same mechs/loadouts.

[Snib]

Bishop Steiner, on 01 February 2013 - 04:35 PM, said:

interesting... since when I use either mech described I usually do middle of the pack damage, but using any Cataphract, my Founders Altas (better energy hpoints than the DDC) my YLW or FLAME, is when I tend to do my best, often times topping the leaderboard (and sometimes still abysmally sucking).

So, seems like when I drive a Centy, Phract or Flame, I am doing my team a favor.. since I do BETTER in them.

Doing more damage is doing nobody a favor, all you do is reducing your team's salvage payout and show that you're terrible at aiming.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

You know I'm really starting to see a trend in threads, where people defend things based on feelings or wanting to defend the devs. I would be interested to see what happened if an Elitist Jerks style of player emerged here. Using a lot of theory craft.

I'd suspect the bigger corps/clans already have that going on behind the scenes.

[Alexii]

Syncline, on 01 February 2013 - 06:15 PM, said:

Don't let the door hit your *** on the way out. I don't like that players leave the game, but I like even less having narrow-minded, inflexible, whiny people to play with.

I agree with a lot of points OP made. He never raged in his post and explained his position every step of the way. In all honesty, i would rather see him stay and u and ppl like u gone from this game. A quick meta look at the game as it is now proves him correct in my eyes. And u represent a blind and narrow-minded fanboi tribe. Incapable of civilized conversation.

Edited by Alexii, 01 February 2013 - 06:22 PM.

[MWHawke]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 01 February 2013 - 06:17 PM, said:

You know I'm really starting to see a trend in threads, where people defend things based on feelings or wanting to defend the devs. I would be interested to see what happened if an Elitist Jerks style of player emerged here. Using a lot of theory craft.

I'd suspect the bigger corps/clans already have that going on behind the scenes.

Rather than posting a general statement and hoping it makes you look cool, address the particular post. It's more constructive.

Alexii, on 01 February 2013 - 06:18 PM, said:

I agree with a lot of points OP made. He never raged in his post and explained his position every step of the way. In all honesty, i would rather see him stay and u and ppl like u gone from this game.

But there are so many things that can be used but he has not learned to use them. I'm not defending anybody but I would like to suggest that he learn to use what is on-hand.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Alexii, on 01 February 2013 - 06:18 PM, said:

I agree with a lot of points OP made. He never raged in his post and explained his position every step of the way. In all honesty, i would rather see him stay and u and ppl like u gone from this game.

If only. Would make for better boards. There is a ton of constructive criticism that gets ripped by people being white knights for the devs. And then they scream it's a beta. Which is silly, because in every beta i've been in (about 20) normally the whole point is bringing up the major issues in the game which get fixed in a week or two.

Here it's the opposite, people almost seem to want people to stick their heads in the sand, and ignore problems. Then hope they get fixed two or three months later.

MWHawke, on 01 February 2013 - 06:21 PM, said:

Rather than posting a general statement and hoping it makes you look cool, address the particular post. It's more constructive.



But there are so many things that can be used but he has not learned to use them. I'm not defending anybody but I would like to suggest that he learn to use what is on-hand.

Read a couple posts above please. I elaborated to bring some logic back into this thread and help explain the OP's thought process.

Quote

He's technically correct. I understand the replies saying "I kick *** in (Insert this here)", or whatever variation.

But I suspect many of you don't play MMO's. One of the key things in games such as this is the meta game. The meta game in Mechwarrior involves load-outs and ECM.

It's actually quite a bit like WoW's talent trees and classes. There was always one class with a specific talent tree that would be better at doing damage than every other class. That's not to say the other classes couldn't come and contribute, but that one class was always in higher demand and received preference in raiding.

So lets say the rogue using a backstab style build was the best in WoW. Well that would be the Atlas DC here. And while you can still bring a mage and win the raid, just like you can bring a stalker and win the match, you are still technically not playing the game at it's most optimal level.


Which is why a lot of the 8-mans see a lot of the same mechs/loadouts.

Edited by Nicholas Carlyle, 01 February 2013 - 06:24 PM.