40 replies to this topic

[Tw1stedMonkey]

Can anyone explain to me why an ammo explosion in the arm of an assault mech (AWESOME to be exact) can travel all the way to the CT and core it out with having ANY DAMAGE AT ALL to armor or internals to anything other than the armor that was blown off? Keep in mind I am asking this from a physics perspective as well.

Explosion follow the path of least resistance, that being said how does it travel strictly under the armor through half the wingspan of an 80 ton mech? that has got to be like 20m at least (I could not find an actual measure of size for the awesome). if it set off other detonations in the side torso then yes but i do not have ammo in the side torsos nor anything else too obviously combustible, (ie, I don't explode from the first ignition source to strike my unarmored torso). The force of the explosion, WOULD likely knock the mech off balance and make it fall, depending on the amount of damage done.


PS. do not respond with "that's how it was in tabletop" everyone knows that turn-based strategy rules do not translate well to an FPS. It was a nice starting point but obviously should not be followed exclusively.

[Cik]

that's how it was in tabletop. it was balanced in tabletop it's still balanced here. if you want ammo explosions not to kill you, add CASE.

do you have an XL engine?

Edited by Cik, 01 February 2013 - 11:15 AM.

[Tw1stedMonkey]

No, I do not have an XL engine, I thought i had put that in but i guess i forgot. I had thought case would only matter for having ammo in the side torso?

[Kaarde]

Case only fits in torsos, not in arms and legs.

As for the damage, when ammo explodes it takes out the area its in and the one adjacent to it if I recall correctly. So the arm should take the torso with it though not the center torso. As Cik mentioned an XL and ammo explosion taking out a RT or Lt would kill the mech.

I've seen many people put ammo in heads or legs to avoid the ammo explosion for the most part as arms are quickly lost as are LT, CT, RT depending on the mech.

[One Medic Army]

It prevents the ammo explosion from traveling from the CASEd torso to CT.
Ammo explosions will continue to travel until they run out of damage, try to exit a CASEd section, or destroy the internals of your CT.

Edited by One Medic Army, 01 February 2013 - 11:31 AM.

[Orzorn]

Kaarde, on 01 February 2013 - 11:29 AM, said:

As for the damage, when ammo explodes it takes out the area its in and the one adjacent to it if I recall correctly.

Not true, at least the way you implied it. Ammo explosions (and any damage, actually), that deal more damage than the entire health of that component will then put the rest of that damage towards the center of the mech, so an arm with 5 HP that takes 10 damage will explode, then have 5 of that damage dealt to its adjoining torso. However, if that torso explodes as well and has some damage left over, that will go to the center torso.

Basically, damage spills over until its completely dealt. If you have a particularly large ammo explosion, it can kill you by spilling all the damage from the arm, to the side torso, to the center torso.

It works the same with legs as well.

[Exoth3rmic]

I would like to know if, when your ammo is depleted, and your ammo is reported later as "destroyed" (which does occur despite technically having 0 rounds left) whether its still causing dmg, despite no ammo being present.

Edited by Exoth3rmic, 01 February 2013 - 11:33 AM.

[Kaarde]

Orzorn, on 01 February 2013 - 11:32 AM, said:

Not true, at least the way you implied it. Ammo explosions (and any damage, actually), that deal more damage than the entire health of that component will then put the rest of that damage towards the center of the mech, so an arm with 5 HP that takes 10 damage will explode, then have 5 of that damage dealt to its adjoining torso. However, if that torso explodes as well and has some damage left over, that will go to the center torso.

Basically, damage spills over until its completely dealt. If you have a particularly large ammo explosion, it can kill you by spilling all the damage from the arm, to the side torso, to the center torso.

It works the same with legs as well.

Thank you for the clarification. I didn't realize that it would spread like that.

Now..the question being if a 5 point arm takes 20 damage, will case in the adjoining torso mitigate the extra damage going inward? Say if it touches off an ammo explosing in the torso would the extra damage from the arm continue to the center or be stopped by the case? Its splitting hairs but it has me wondering now.

[Exoth3rmic]

Thank you Thontor!

[One Medic Army]

Ammo explosions are different from normal damage.
Normal damage spreads into the armor of the next section, and is not stopped by CASE.
Ammo explosions spread directly into the internals of the next section and are stopped by CASE, specifically an ammo explosion can destroy a CASEd torso, but it will never spread further than that.

[Roughneck45]

Did you have ammo in the side torso as well, possibly causing a chain reaction?

[Tw1stedMonkey]

No ammo in the side torsos, no xl engine. Simply 1 ton of ammo in a damaged arm travel through two undamaged torsos and doing nothing but internal damage with 100% of the ammo explosion damage transfering. I do not get how it makes sense fro only the internals to take damage. An explosion is not a conscious entity, it would explode on the arm and damage the side toros armor and internals a little but in no way should it ever travel through half of the mech doing no damage to the exterior armor. At the VERY least it should transfer less than half of the damage the remaining ammo would do to the side torso, because much of the explosion would dissipate from going off into the air from the holes in the armor or from the arm falling off at the very least.

[Kaspirikay]

i had my leg shot out, a second later my right torso is gone, then finally my engine. i lol'd

[One Medic Army]

Tw1stedMonkey, on 01 February 2013 - 06:45 PM, said:

No ammo in the side torsos, no xl engine. Simply 1 ton of ammo in a damaged arm travel through two undamaged torsos and doing nothing but internal damage with 100% of the ammo explosion damage transfering. I do not get how it makes sense fro only the internals to take damage. An explosion is not a conscious entity, it would explode on the arm and damage the side toros armor and internals a little but in no way should it ever travel through half of the mech doing no damage to the exterior armor. At the VERY least it should transfer less than half of the damage the remaining ammo would do to the side torso, because much of the explosion would dissipate from going off into the air from the holes in the armor or from the arm falling off at the very least.

It transferred to internals in tabletop, thus it transfers to internals here.
In TT anytime you crit ammo, chances were the mech was instantly dead unless it had CASE, in this game you can survive.

[M4NTiC0R3X]

The other day I died from equipping missile ammunition in my leg. I though to myself, but, the enemy only blew off one leg what happened? And then I realized, I heard that cackling noise and nobody shot me I just blew up after one that one leg blew up.

I got kinda pissed 'cos I was like, why not just take the one leg... ya kno?

Then I realized something.

When my leg blew up, it had just under 200 missiles in it. So, 175 missiles x 2.5 damage per missile = well technically I just blew up every 'mech in the vacinity

[Tarman]

M4NTiC0R3X, on 01 February 2013 - 07:10 PM, said:

The other day I died from equipping missile ammunition in my leg. I though to myself, but, the enemy only blew off one leg what happened? And then I realized, I heard that cackling noise and nobody shot me I just blew up after one that one leg blew up.

I got kinda pissed 'cos I was like, why not just take the one leg... ya kno?

Then I realized something.

When my leg blew up, it had just under 200 missiles in it. So, 175 missiles x 2.5 damage per missile = well technically I just blew up every 'mech in the vacinity

Yeah, basically alpha-firing all your ammo into the insides of your own vehicle is usually bad. >____>

Looks cool from the outside though! I want moar effects related to cook-off. Like a stack of MG ammo blasting out like a cloud of fireflies (when people start to carry it that is); some type of specific looks to the components and ammo blowing out. A blast of electric sparks would be cool to see for some energy weapons or EWAR kit getting lit up.

[Taurick]

Two reasons
1) Ammo explosion damage is [number of rounds]*[damage of individual round]
ie, 1 ton of AC/20 ammo = 140 damage, 1 ton of SRM ammo = 250 damage

2) When a section is destroyed, any surplus damage dealt is transferred to the next component of the mech.

The damage path is as follows. On component destruction any surplus damage will be passed on to the next component

RL -> RT -> CT
LL -> LT -> CT
RA -> RT -> CT
LA -> LT -> CT

Consider the awesome you were driving, RA + RT + CT has only like 105 structure HP, even a half ton SRM explosion in the arm would knock out your mech.

I'm not sure why explosions are internal only, the armour of a section should take the damage before the structure does. I'm pretty sure that's how it worked in TT anyway.
Moot point as awesomes armour of RA + RT + CT + internal structure is only like 280HP, so a single ton of SRM would damn near kill you anyway.

[Ryvucz]

Death by evil ballistics.

But on a similar note, I do miss the popping of the ammo whilst the shell of a mech simmered into a scrap heap.

[General Taskeen]

Can't wait for CLAN Case. Weighs nothing and can go anywhere!

[Deamhan]

So wait, If I put a CASE in the LT and have an ammo explosion in the LA then the CASE will stop it from going to the CT?
What If I put a single CASE in the CT? Would that prevent ammo explosion damage from damaging the CT no matter which direction it comes from?