173 replies to this topic

[RussianWolf]

Yokaiko, on 04 February 2013 - 07:39 AM, said:

No because you would have entire teams dropping. WAY to easy to exploit.

I see this as a good thing.

Right now all I hear is "Its a team game, join a team". Some have no interest in that for whatever reason. The Dev supposedly want this to be a team game, right? Actually, the Devs want this to be a game that is successful, Period. If that's team, then its team. If its Solos, then its solos.

If they made teams visible in the "lobby" and all the solos were dropping because of it, it would tell them something important. That they need to modify the system or lose players. Losing players = losing money.

Not having the info in the "lobby" is one of the major causes for the divisiveness around here.

Put it in the "lobby" and you can draw a correlation if masses start DCing. Put it in the after action and you can't draw a correlation when they don't play another game (too many reasons for a person not to play another game). The data is really useful in one, not so much in the other.

[Bguk]

Ilwrath, on 04 February 2013 - 08:11 AM, said:

Has there been any info about them even talking about doing that?

2 Snippets from the last Ask the Devs:

8. To see what 'mechs everyone was piloting on the post-game scoreboard? Soon

Q: When are we going to have teammates that are grouped together be a different color in game?
A: When we bring in the ability to join a lance. No ETA yet.

At the very least that tells me they have already thought of showing premades within the game screen. How it gets implemented no details are given.

Edited by Bguk, 04 February 2013 - 08:21 AM.

[Ilwrath]

Joseph Mallan, on 04 February 2013 - 08:18 AM, said:

dagger lots of Founders have turned off their Tag for what ever reason. So sometimes those non founders are just in sheep's clothing.

Its rather bizarre. They feel shame for supporting the game? Its not like it will prevent people from noticing that they are a premade.

Bguk, on 04 February 2013 - 08:20 AM, said:

2 Snippets from the last Ask the Devs:

8. To see what 'mechs everyone was piloting on the post-game scoreboard? Soon

Q: When are we going to have teammates that are grouped together be a different color in game?
A: When we bring in the ability to join a lance. No ETA yet.

At the very least that tells me they have already thought of showing premades within the game screen. How it gets implemented no details are given.

Okay I did not know that. I still find it strange that they have not done it yet. Should be rather simple gui tweaks. Little work compared to netcode, bug fixing and the rest. What do they mean about "ability to join a lance"? That is a premade right?

[zraven7]

Cordy Ceps, on 04 February 2013 - 06:35 AM, said:

Hello everyone

Regarding the premade pugstomp discussion, Id like to make a simple suggestion for starters:

Make the premades recognizeable! Mark the players with a small L1 (for lance 1) and L2 in the players list before battle.

This way, the other team can see that theyre not against uncoordinated pugs BEFORE they lost 5 mechs to focus fire. The better pugs will be able to adapt their tactics.

Also, Im really upset about these games, where you just seem to have no chance , no matter what you do. Personally, Id like to know, if its my and my teams fault or are there really pure pug teams facing 4 and 4+4 man premades.

Because this problem needs to be solved. There are times, where you lose 8 of 10 games as a pug. This cannot be enjoyable experince. Id like to know for sure, if its to my lack of personal skill and there are as many 4-mans landing in my team as in the enemy team, or is there truly a (grave) matchmaking imbalance towards premades.

Another thing id like to add; a comparison to WoT:

In WoT, you have 15vs15 battles. The max amount of players in a premade platoon is THREE.
Three out of fifteen.
Here, its 4 out of eight. Think the rest for yourselves.

And, please, no "Its your fault for not teaming up"- posts. Ive been in several Clans till now, didnt enjoy it.
My RL friends are not into MMOs. Thats it

But, it is your fault for not teaming up. Seriously, this is getting old.

Currently, none of my RL friends are into MWO. I joined 1 group, and always have people to game with and joke with.

This is a TEAM-BASED game. You are complaining about people TEAMING up in a TEAM based game.

I personally think they could allow any size premade.

People have got out of their way to make teaming up on Teamspeak easy. There are multiple Teamspeak servers taht are already in existance, that you dont have to pay for, that are just full of people who aren't in clans. They just want people to game with. Heck, half the internet gaming sites have their own Teamspeak channel at this point. There is even one linked in the "New Players" section, and it is completely unaligned. anyone can jump on.

I understand the need to pull in new players, but this game is completely based around teamwork. The radar system, scouting, spot assists, and mech combat, in general, are about team-based gameplay.

Stop being a social pariah, and go TALK to people.

[Bguk]

Ilwrath, on 04 February 2013 - 08:23 AM, said:

Okay I did not know that. I still find it strange that they have not done it yet. Should be rather simple gui tweaks. Little work compared to netcode, bug fixing and the rest. What do they mean about "ability to join a lance"? That is a premade right?

We all don't look at the other subforums(although I think it should be a prerequisite at times). It's called priorities in development as well as different teams working on different items.

I would assume it is a premade, but one that's in relation to when CW arrives, not current form.

[RussianWolf]

Ilwrath, on 04 February 2013 - 08:23 AM, said:

Its rather bizarre. They feel shame for supporting the game? Its not like it will prevent people from noticing that they are a premade.



Okay I did not know that. I still find it strange that they have not done it yet. Should be rather simple gui tweaks. Little work compared to netcode, bug fixing and the rest. What do they mean about "ability to join a lance"? That is a premade right?

Some associate founder with premade. Not always the case and some turned it off because of that.

I'm a founder, but I solo exclusively. Won't join a team for my own reasons. I have no issue with playing against a pre-made, but I'd like to know for sure or if I should give mad props to a gaggle of random solos who did a good job.

[Joseph Mallan]

Ilwrath, on 04 February 2013 - 08:23 AM, said:

Its rather bizarre. They feel shame for supporting the game? Its not like it will prevent people from noticing that they are a premade.



Okay I did not know that. I still find it strange that they have not done it yet. Should be rather simple gui tweaks. Little work compared to netcode, bug fixing and the rest. What do they mean about "ability to join a lance"? That is a premade right?

Would it? Do you know the majority of my team mates? I PUG dropped and a team mate announced that "We have just dropped with ML!" Had to chuckle as I corrected the mistake.

[KuruptU4Fun]

Ilwrath, on 04 February 2013 - 08:20 AM, said:

Its rather bizarre. They feel shame for supporting the game? Its not like it will prevent people from noticing that they are a premade.

Since the Elite and Legendary Founders have a tendency to be associated with the term "Yellow colored glasses" which seems to be that we feel PGI can do no wrong, In turn we get entirely dismissed or ignored in the forums.

[Ilwrath]

zraven7, on 04 February 2013 - 08:25 AM, said:

But, it is your fault for not teaming up. Seriously, this is getting old.

Currently, none of my RL friends are into MWO. I joined 1 group, and always have people to game with and joke with.

This is a TEAM-BASED game. You are complaining about people TEAMING up in a TEAM based game.

This game let people play solo. If it was team only then there would be no option to enter solo.

If you are so hard on the teaming, just let only teams meet teams. Great eh? Why do you want to play against solo players if you are such a team player?

[RussianWolf]

zraven7, on 04 February 2013 - 08:25 AM, said:

Stop being a social pariah, and go TALK to people.

No, cause I don't like you.

[StalaggtIKE]

A sound suggestion.

[Ilwrath]

KuruptU4Fun, on 04 February 2013 - 08:27 AM, said:

Since the Elite and Legendary Founders have a tendency to be associated with the term "Yellow colored glasses" which seems to be that we feel PGI can do no wrong, In turn we get entirely dismissed or ignored in the forums.

I am elite so that invalidates the "yellow colored glasses" claim
But that is for the forum. Ingame it should not matter at all.

[Bguk]

Ilwrath, on 04 February 2013 - 08:32 AM, said:

I am elite so that invalidates the "yellow colored glasses" claim
But that is for the forum. Ingame it should not matter at all.

And yet it does. Please read RussianWolf and Mallan posts above. It happens.

[Cordy Ceps]

zraven7, on 04 February 2013 - 05:25 PM, said:

Stop being a social pariah, and go TALK to people.

RussianWolf, on 04 February 2013 - 08:29 AM, said:

No, cause I don't like you.

Basically, this.

Edited by Cordy Ceps, 04 February 2013 - 08:36 AM.

[zraven7]

Ilwrath, on 04 February 2013 - 08:29 AM, said:

This game let people play solo. If it was team only then there would be no option to enter solo.

If you are so hard on the teaming, just let only teams meet teams. Great eh? Why do you want to play against solo players if you are such a team player?

You can also ram food in your ear instead of your mouth. People do not do this because it is inefficient and not enjoyable.

RussianWolf, on 04 February 2013 - 08:29 AM, said:

No, cause I don't like you.

You're kinda awesome, you know that?

[Joseph Mallan]

Ilwrath, on 04 February 2013 - 08:29 AM, said:

This game let people play solo. If it was team only then there would be no option to enter solo.

If you are so hard on the teaming, just let only teams meet teams. Great eh? Why do you want to play against solo players if you are such a team player?

I'm sorry but your logic is faulty. If you joined a match solo you would be 1 against 8. 8 solo PUGs are a team, not a well coordinated team but a team none the less.

[Elandyll]

zraven7, on 04 February 2013 - 08:25 AM, said:

But, it is your fault for not teaming up. Seriously, this is getting old.

Currently, none of my RL friends are into MWO. I joined 1 group, and always have people to game with and joke with.

This is a TEAM-BASED game. You are complaining about people TEAMING up in a TEAM based game.

I personally think they could allow any size premade.

People have got out of their way to make teaming up on Teamspeak easy. There are multiple Teamspeak servers taht are already in existance, that you dont have to pay for, that are just full of people who aren't in clans. They just want people to game with. Heck, half the internet gaming sites have their own Teamspeak channel at this point. There is even one linked in the "New Players" section, and it is completely unaligned. anyone can jump on.

I understand the need to pull in new players, but this game is completely based around teamwork. The radar system, scouting, spot assists, and mech combat, in general, are about team-based gameplay.

Stop being a social pariah, and go TALK to people.

So ... wait.

Are you telling us that -only- Premades on TS/ Mumble/etc should play this game?
Say .. what? -Only- 4 man premades? Or -only- 8 man premades then? Right? (because the strict 8v8 seems so popular these days)

Because, if it's -only- for premades, and you have a 2 or 3 man premade joining in with a 4 pre made, that leave a 1 man spot, right?

Wait ... even better. Say we go back and allow any size of premade in.
But, as you seem to say, the game is -only- for premades.

What happens to a pre-made of 6, when no pre-made of 2 are available to fill it in?
Or a premade of 5 with no premade of 3 available?


I wish people saying this nonsense would wake up and realize that given how the game is made, Premades -NEED- solo players to fill in blank spots in a way that Solo players do not -NEED- premades in return.
That's why too many (not all) premades call Puggers "Meat" or "Canon Fodder", because that's literally how they are treated. And it sucks (I have been a strict Pugger until recently).

How about a minimum of

1) respect

2) making the game a little more palatable for new players and solo players alike, by not only limiting the drops to an actual 4 man and NO sync drops, and when a premade is on one side, making sure that an "equivalent" (+ or - 1 man) premade is also on the other side?

That alone would go a long way.

Now, about the OP's suggestion, I see the potential underlining of premades in the roster as a possible good and bad thing.

On the good side, it would entice (decent) Solo players to follow the premade Lance, and coordinate with them instead of running off and get killed right away.

On the bad side, it would also entice many players who simply do not want to go through pugstomp after pugstomp to quit the game right away if they see a premade on the opposing side.
Solution? What I proposed, put a premade on each side automatically, and disable synch drops (which should already be a no no since the rule of 4 man pre made limit).

Edited by Elandyll, 04 February 2013 - 08:42 AM.

[KuruptU4Fun]

Ilwrath, on 04 February 2013 - 08:32 AM, said:

I am elite so that invalidates the "yellow colored glasses" claim
But that is for the forum. Ingame it should not matter at all.

You are a single person, not everyone who bought a founders package. I was speaking in generalities.

I created this post back on the middle of page 2:

Quote

It would seem to me that the ELO system will help filter some of the PUG/ Premade "unfairness" as it's called. What about those who can't field even a full 4 man? Do their contributions/ failures to win a match add to this debate?

It would seem that creating yet another option in MM would be to have the servers recognize that a 4MT are only allowed to join other 4/4/4 team match ups. But honestly that could create complications too. Then the servers also to the only other real option to put 2/3MT's in with the solo PUGer's.

If you believe that even option is unacceptable than I'd like to point out that the mathematics behind creating even teams using 2/3 man teams into a 8vs8 match up would take a lot of time and throw people off of playing in the first place.

It has yet to be counter debated until now. Would you care to change that?

[Cordy Ceps]

Joseph Mallan, on 04 February 2013 - 08:37 AM, said:

I'm sorry but your logic is faulty. If you joined a match solo you would be 1 against 8. 8 solo PUGs are a team, not a well coordinated team but a team none the less.

Well, there are other opinions:

One guy on the WoT forums once said:

"In every game, youve got 29 enemies - the green ones just hit you less."

Edited by Cordy Ceps, 04 February 2013 - 08:41 AM.

[Ilwrath]

Joseph Mallan, on 04 February 2013 - 08:37 AM, said:

I'm sorry but your logic is faulty. If you joined a match solo you would be 1 against 8. 8 solo PUGs are a team, not a well coordinated team but a team none the less.

He was talking about premades. Not team as in random people working together.