298 replies to this topic

[Novawrecker]

Is that what you think the end result will be? I see a much greater picture than you, my friend. It is not difficult to take out armor in the game. Having that annoying light MG you to death as someone clean slates your armor = even quicker death/remove your usefullness in game.

Edited by Novawrecker, 06 February 2013 - 03:47 AM.

[pistolero]

oh please have mercy !!!

please keep the "real world" weapon do this and that arguments out of the game

we all know the "Battletech Universe" ... you know .... the place where our big stompy robots are living has different rules ....

[Utilyan]

My favorite mech is my Cicada-3c with 4mgs/flamer. The most fun mech of all. Every fight....is a Boss fight


Im pretty sure they started with 200 ammo doing .4 damage. Fell in love with the daka...... said aww lets make it more common. so they made it 2000 , then someone who hates the daka figured ok do the quick math .04 damage now.

I love the idea of longer range. Im not too crazy about it getting a damage buff. I'd rather nerf the damage for longer range.

But even longer range might be too much of a buff. If range was lets say 1000m with damage as is, I'm pretty feel confident I could get a kill with them.

I don't think the devs are stupid. I'm pretty sure they have had runs with settings with higher damage to mg. I bet it took fun out the game.


I could see myself setting off a whiner with a long range mg. What works is something thats fun not something that just going to get folks angry. A very long range mg with hardly no damage can still capture attention, can still mess with a mech's damage sensors. Even if it did NO DAMAGE at all it could still be useful.

In some ways I feel like leaving the mg and flamer like weapons like end game weapons when your looking for a new twist of a challenge. gotta have something for folks who got bored of slaughtering mechs all the time ect. You know you can take a spider and jump jet......neeeeeeoooooowwwwww daka daka daka!

As is I do kill mechs. maybe not a fresh mech less he has paper legs or back. You gotta find that mech missing that armor and capitalize. Its very challenging very fun. If they buff this weapon......im going to start feeling dirty.

Tell you what get yourself a cicada-3c and get a MG kill if you never had a mg kill before. You might just laugh if you got back to "better" weapons. MGs is the best weapon in this game.

I rather have better cosmetics.

Fact they should have differ sounding MGS. So when you mech lab they got like differ types of mgs with differ sounds......maybe differ looks. tracer colors ect.


Edit:

Fact would be cool if they used MGs like thier guinea pig for things never tried before. Like having House/clan Brand weapons with differ characteristics, more damage, less range, more range, more ammo, less damage, clips, reloads, heat penalties, keeping it balanced and using the generic mg as the standard template.

Personally I feel the TT is perfect bones, but I think you guys should be the cannon to flesh out the world. I'd like to see like 20 differ medium lasers. Faction specific weapons n' stuff.

Edited by Utilyan, 06 February 2013 - 04:09 AM.

[Clay Pigeon]

90m is a bit short.

[Novawrecker]

Clay Pigeon, on 06 February 2013 - 04:07 AM, said:

90m is a bit short.

*plop*

[MustrumRidcully]

Novawrecker, on 06 February 2013 - 03:35 AM, said:

Is that what you think the end result will be? I see a much greater picture than you, my friend. It is not difficult to take out armor in the game. Having that annoying light MG you to death as someone clean slates your armor = even quicker death/remove your usefullness in game.

If you find it so easy to take out armor, do you have any problems destroying the internal structure? Internal Structure is often half of what the armour on the location was - so basically, for the last 1/3 of the battle you "invonenience" your enemy by destroying his equipment - i suspect he might be much more worried about how close he is to death already by your actions. Destroying equipment is basically adding insult ot injury. If it comes for free, it's good to have, but if you have to consider what alternative weapons you could have used to speed up the first 2/3 of your engagement...

[JadePanther]

Merata Zouh Ihinimtah, on 06 February 2013 - 02:14 AM, said:

That is a grand idea about increasing the range. Without at least a 750 meter range, the realism just isn't there. And machine guns definitely need a substantial damage increase.

yea the realism really isnt there in a Science Fiction Shoot'em'up featuring 100 ton GIANT STOMPY ROBOTS That shoot lasers and can fly into the air..

while were making things realistic how about makin me farts smell like rainbow sherbet.

[Strum Wealh]

Jack Corvus, on 05 February 2013 - 08:00 PM, said:

BattleTech ranges are intentionally short to keep the size of the map in the board game manageable, and accordingly, the size of these maps in video games. Maps would be monstrous if we used the sizes mentioned in the fiction such as novels.

We don't need machine guns that do more than they are supposed to. We just need more BattleTech. Enemy AI infantry at control points and fortress and tanks and all kinds of great things to flesh out the Mech on Mech combat.

edited: double post

Though, imagine what would have happened if MWO had been built with the BattleForce scaling (where one hex = 180 meters) rather than the standard BattleTech scaling ((where one hex = 30 meters), so that all of the weapons had six times their BT ranges and the maps were correspondingly larger...
SLas and MGs with a 540 meter effective range?
AC/2s with a 4320 meter effective range?
MLas, AC/20s, and SRMs with 1620 meter effective ranges?
PPCs with a 3240 meter effective range, and ER-PPCs with a 4140 meter effective range?
Gauss Rifles with a 3960 meter effective range?
LRMs with a 3780 meter effective range?

And those are the IS ranges. Imagine how far Clan weapons could reach...

[Sifright]

Enervation, on 05 February 2013 - 07:00 PM, said:

that would be epic, and a darn good reason to run a semi-stock k2 (with dhs and erppc/llasers)

another person that doesn't understand this games mechanics.

How long does an enemy mechs components last once it's armour is removed?

Answer, just a few seconds.

Tell me how inflicting slightly more damage to items inside a mech is going to make any difference when the mech explodes from some one else hitting it with a real weapon any way?

Machine guns are useless.

Their proposed changes to them wont solve it.

[Joseph Mallan]

Maverick01, on 05 February 2013 - 06:44 PM, said:

Machine gun range should be changed to 750 meters. This would make the MG great for suppressive fire tactics (although an ammo consumption monster). Furthermore, I would argue the DPS needs to be "slightly" increased to make this weapon viable on the battlefield (yes, all weapons need to be viable in MWO). The developers are taking the wrong approach in balancing this weapon: http://mwomercs.com/...apon-balancing/

For comparison purposes, the light machine gun employed by the U.S. Military is as follows:

M249 Squad Automatic Weapon (SAW)
Effective Range: 800 meters (point target)

IIRC... the rounds shot out of a SAW were 'softer' than the armor they would be shot against. As a Toolmaker i have to use a hardened bit to remove stock. it is a common(old) prank if you leave your machine you will come back to find a cold roll shank replacing the tool bit you were using.

[SI The Joker]

Call me crazy... but if I'm running around in (at least) a 25 ton vehicle... I'd like to think that my machine gun weaponry is a bit... oh I dunno... larger than a SAW.

[Broceratops]

90 meters is pretty sad. i'd rather just strap jamarcus russell to my mech and have him throw grenades. it would weigh about the same but the grenades would do more damage.

[Novawrecker]

MustrumRidcully, on 06 February 2013 - 04:23 AM, said:

If you find it so easy to take out armor, do you have any problems destroying the internal structure? Internal Structure is often half of what the armour on the location was - so basically, for the last 1/3 of the battle you "invonenience" your enemy by destroying his equipment - i suspect he might be much more worried about how close he is to death already by your actions. Destroying equipment is basically adding insult ot injury. If it comes for free, it's good to have, but if you have to consider what alternative weapons you could have used to speed up the first 2/3 of your engagement...

Tell that to all the K/D hungry player out there. To them, killing the mech is all (be it in whatever form it comes). Remember, destroying equipment isn't the only thing that can occur as many aim for those torsos in hopes to nail an XL.

[CDLord HHGD]

MG damage buff to .2 per round. Nerf ammo to 400 per ton. Fixed.

[DocBach]

SI The Joker, on 06 February 2013 - 06:03 AM, said:

Call me crazy... but if I'm running around in (at least) a 25 ton vehicle... I'd like to think that my machine gun weaponry is a bit... oh I dunno... larger than a SAW.

A lot of our MRAPs were pushing that weight, and some of them used SAW's as their weapon systems if the 240 or M2 were unavailable.

[SI The Joker]

DocBach, on 06 February 2013 - 11:26 AM, said:

A lot of our MRAPs were pushing that weight, and some of them used SAW's as their weapon systems if the 240 or M2 were unavailable.

I had always thought of BT machine guns like an M2... at least a .50 (for a framing as to what my thoughts were)

Can a SAW or M240 cause any real damage to an MRAP or armored vehicle?

[DocBach]

SI The Joker, on 06 February 2013 - 12:40 PM, said:

I had always thought of BT machine guns like an M2... at least a .50 (for a framing as to what my thoughts were)

Can a SAW or M240 cause any real damage to an MRAP or armored vehicle?

No, .50 could do some damage if it hits the right spot like the engine block. The crew compartment was the most heavily armored location, and was pretty impervious to small arms fire.

[Gaan Cathal]

SI The Joker, on 06 February 2013 - 12:40 PM, said:

I had always thought of BT machine guns like an M2... at least a .50 (for a framing as to what my thoughts were)

The only listed caliber for any of the MGs is 20mm. Several also carry a 'rotary' tag in the name. My personal impression is that they correlate (in TT) with an M61 Vulcan or similar weapon. In MWO they currently correlate with opening the window and yelling obscenities. Only not as good.

The Mauser MG 213 and the GAU-8 and -12 are also similar designs of weapon in broadly similar caliber and role.



That's the GAU-8, for reference.

Edited by Gaan Cathal, 06 February 2013 - 12:58 PM.

[SI The Joker]

DocBach, on 06 February 2013 - 12:49 PM, said:

No, .50 could do some damage if it hits the right spot like the engine block. The crew compartment was the most heavily armored location, and was pretty impervious to small arms fire.

Well then maybe the MGs they have in-game are at least somewhat OK then, if I'm looking at them from a .50 standpoint. In my mind even a .50 would seem pretty darn useless against something like a mech...

Gaan Cathal, on 06 February 2013 - 12:58 PM, said:

The only listed caliber for any of the MGs is 20mm. Several also carry a 'rotary' tag in the name. My personal impression is that they correlate (in TT) with an M61 Vulcan or similar weapon. In MWO they currently correlate with opening the window and yelling obscenities. Only not as good.

The Mauser MG 213 and the GAU-8 and -12 are also similar designs of weapon in broadly similar caliber and role.

That's the GAU-8, for reference.

20mm against infantry... My word BT universe... ouch!

Edited by SI The Joker, 06 February 2013 - 01:03 PM.

[Rajun]

DocBach, on 06 February 2013 - 12:49 PM, said:

No, .50 could do some damage if it hits the right spot like the engine block. The crew compartment was the most heavily armored location, and was pretty impervious to small arms fire.

I think this something to keep in mind as far as MWO/Battletech effective ranges. These are ranges that weapons can do effective damage to Mech/Tank, not necessarily how far there actual ranges are.

A MG is not going to do much to a tank at 800 m. Even at 100m. But stick that same MG inside a hatch, and there will be plenty of criticals going on.