440 replies to this topic

[GalaxyBluestar]

Vassago Rain, on 06 February 2013 - 08:36 PM, said:

We're past the point where the goal is to make an impression. If they haven't touched the mechs for this long, there's a strong chance they're intended to be this way.

So we're just playing around in the cats, that happen to be supergood, and killing people while quoting the cartoon.

oh well keep it up and if the devs actually think something's wrong they'll do something about it.

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 06 February 2013 - 08:40 PM, said:

the "no" option is destroying this poll

that's democracy i'm afraid, it was the last thing i added remembering that many whiners would say the poll is borked with hate cata's agender if the no option wasn't there.

[Redmond Spiderhammer]

with the K2.. if its intended to be small ballistics only... why not move both slots to the CT? you then have choice of AC2 or Machine guns and the art doesn't need to be touched.

[Vassago Rain]

Critical Fumble, on 06 February 2013 - 08:41 PM, said:

That may be it, but high torso twist mostly just makes a mech better at brawling, not necessarily better overall. Unless Brawling is the only way to play the game, that is. But my thought is that every time we get a decided FOTM - LRMs, SSRMs, Gauss, AC/20, SRMs - The Catapult seems to sit at the center of the mess.

Sorry, the point was that even if the Cat chassis were forced into a neat little balanced box, the mechanics that make it so useful would still remain. Some other chassis would take over, or maybe several chassis would divvy it up; or a new mech down the road would become the "new Cat".

As for solutions? Probably just game development. There have been all kinds of threads about fixing boating in general, some with other issues attached as well, though. My personal favorite is HRR Insanity's ideas, but I'm not sure it would really address missile boating effectively.

Critical Fumble, on 06 February 2013 - 08:41 PM, said:

That may be it, but high torso twist mostly just makes a mech better at brawling, not necessarily better overall. Unless Brawling is the only way to play the game, that is. But my thought is that every time we get a decided FOTM - LRMs, SSRMs, Gauss, AC/20, SRMs - The Catapult seems to sit at the center of the mess.

Sorry, the point was that even if the Cat chassis were forced into a neat little balanced box, the mechanics that make it so useful would still remain. Some other chassis would take over, or maybe several chassis would divvy it up; or a new mech down the road would become the "new Cat".

As for solutions? Probably just game development. There have been all kinds of threads about fixing boating in general, some with other issues attached as well, though. My personal favorite is HRR Insanity's ideas, but I'm not sure it would really address missile boating effectively.

The game's about short-ranged destruction. Of course it's all about brawling. That's how it was designed, and even the pitch was all about close fights, because the old MW games, where you'd boat large lasers and LRMS for long-ranged, boring, drone fights, was seen as, well - boring.

It's at the center of the mess for reasons I've explained earlier in this thread. It can boat EVERYTHING, no matter what it is. There's a variant that lets you take it, regardless. You can do any combo.

If it didn't have crazy twist, it'd be easier to fight them. If jets worked properly, they couldn't DBZ fight you.

Redmond Spiderhammer, on 06 February 2013 - 08:45 PM, said:

with the K2.. if its intended to be small ballistics only... why not move both slots to the CT? you then have choice of AC2 or Machine guns and the art doesn't need to be touched.

But then it'd be a useless mech.
There's no such thing as 'intended for X.' Is my atlas cannon 'intended for big ballistics,' so I should never get to take smaller ones?

[DerelictTomcat]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 06 February 2013 - 08:40 PM, said:

the "no" option is destroying this poll

Yeah sucks to see a fair non-biased poll eh?

[Demoned]

i think this is on topic

enjoy



never feared the A1s ever, just keep your distance, if that fails get behind them.
same with the K2s AC20's, just flank its easy enough

[Redmond Spiderhammer]

Vassago Rain, on 06 February 2013 - 08:46 PM, said:

But then it'd be a useless mech.
There's no such thing as 'intended for X.' Is my atlas cannon 'intended for big ballistics,' so I should never get to take smaller ones?

I'm not sure it would be useless... it just wouldn't be always run so contrary to its design. I'm not sure what would fit space/weight wise, but you could still run 4 Energy weapons plus 2 x AC2s.

I'm just playing with it now, but I have been running it pretty close to stock with just some extra speed and upgraded energy weapons. I'm not destroying everything in my path, but its rare that I dont get a kill or two with it.

[Vassago Rain]

Demoned, on 06 February 2013 - 08:50 PM, said:

i think this is on topic

enjoy



never feared the A1s ever, just keep your distance, if that fails get behind them.
same with the K2s AC20's, just flank its easy enough

You can't 'keep your distance' from something that ignores terrain, and moves about 90 kmph.

I want to know what 'getting behind me' would accomplish, since I can simply twist to shoot you, while I keep walking forward.

Redmond Spiderhammer, on 06 February 2013 - 08:53 PM, said:

I'm not sure it would be useless... it just wouldn't be always run so contrary to its design. I'm not sure what would fit space/weight wise, but you could still run 4 Energy weapons plus 2 x AC2s.

I'm just playing with it now, but I have been running it pretty close to stock with just some extra speed and upgraded energy weapons. I'm not destroying everything in my path, but its rare that I dont get a kill or two with it.

That'd be a useless mech, and you'd not bea ble to take anything worthwhile on those hardpoints - much like how atlases get two ballistics in the one side. When and where do I want to put two weaksauce ballistics in there, instead of the one good ballistic? That's right. Never.

Edited by Vassago Rain, 06 February 2013 - 08:54 PM.

[GalaxyBluestar]

Demoned, on 06 February 2013 - 08:50 PM, said:

i think that vid proves yougotta be in one to take one and that the numbers express the problems of it's high advantages.

like this vid...



although in this vid many targets stand still like dopes or the pilot did well to get the drop on half broken mechs.

love liverpool accents btw mother would be happy.

Edited by GalaxyBluestar, 06 February 2013 - 08:58 PM.

[Critical Fumble]

Vassago Rain, on 06 February 2013 - 08:46 PM, said:

The game's about short-ranged destruction. Of course it's all about brawling. That's how it was designed, and even the pitch was all about close fights, because the old MW games, where you'd boat large lasers and LRMS for long-ranged, boring, drone fights, was seen as, well - boring.

It's at the center of the mess for reasons I've explained earlier in this thread. It can boat EVERYTHING, no matter what it is. There's a variant that lets you take it, regardless. You can do any combo.

If it didn't have crazy twist, it'd be easier to fight them. If jets worked properly, they couldn't DBZ fight you.

Pretty much. Ironically, I don't use Cats, and I've found that I'm most effective playing the game the "boring" way - partially because I tend to lose my head in a melee, and partially because I don't seem to ever choose the best FOTM brawler. I assume that as much as they want the game to be exciting, they don't want it to be Mortal Kombat: 3050, either.

[Demoned]

Vassago Rain, on 06 February 2013 - 08:55 PM, said:

You can't 'keep your distance' from something that ignores terrain, and moves about 90 kmph.

I want to know what 'getting behind me' would accomplish, since I can simply twist to shoot you, while I keep walking forward.

a: a Good A1 pilot does not ignore terrain they use it, think of them like a ninja (video isn't best example)
A1 will always try to get behind you, they pop easy from the front and, if your been chased down by one wheres the rest of your team? you come face to face to 1 class it as a mistake.

b: if I'm behind a A1 (i play HBK-4SP most days) look at which way they are twisting, and keep pace with it in the opposite direction. all you have to do is keep the back plat in front of you

I'm not going say L2P but, you can't expect all mechs to be balance equally, it just doesn't work that way,
everything has a counter learning the counter is key to balance.

[Vassago Rain]

Demoned, on 06 February 2013 - 09:04 PM, said:

a: a Good A1 pilot does not ignore terrain they use it, think of them like a ninja (video isn't best example)
A1 will always try to get behind you, they pop easy from the front and, if your been chased down by one wheres the rest of your team? you come face to face to 1 class it as a mistake.

b: if I'm behind a A1 (i play HBK-4SP most days) look at which way they are twisting, and keep pace with it in the opposite direction. all you have to do is keep the back plat in front of you

I'm not going say L2P but, you can't expect all mechs to be balance equally, it just doesn't work that way,
everything has a counter learning the counter is key to balance.

[Orzorn]

Vassago Rain, on 06 February 2013 - 08:16 PM, said:

Here's how this would be fixed, once and for all.

Catapults need their extremely large torso twist reduced. They can currently shoot behind them.
Jumpjets need to not let you turn 180 in the air.
Big guns on the K2 should be properly displayed on the model, like the game does for the arm energy slots.

Tinkering with the hardpoints doesn't do anything, except make the mech useless. Forcing a 'no twist' on them as a quirk also makes them useless.

100% this.

Catapults are effective because their torso twist lets them be excellent brawlers, as well as their smaller side torso as K2s let them mount large ballistics without worrying, as well as using XL engines.

[Demoned]

Vassago Rain, on 06 February 2013 - 09:05 PM, said:

i can play that game, at least use something more original,
hell start an original whine topic while your at it.

[Stingz]

Demoned, on 06 February 2013 - 09:04 PM, said:

b: if I'm behind a A1 (i play HBK-4SP most days) look at which way they are twisting, and keep pace with it in the opposite direction. all you have to do is keep the back plat in front of you

I've used an -A1 long enough to finish basic (long enough to be too easy), and you can't stay behind an -A1 at all. 140 degree twist, jump jets, and an XL engine means no escape. Even light mechs get about 2-3 seconds most behind me.

Best way to use an SRM-A1 is cleanup. Jump(jet) into fights teammates are already in, and let rip an alpha.


I now pilot a -K2, as a 65t Hunchback. It works extremely well because of the slim side torso keeping the AC/20 safe, and extreme twist to chase down fast mechs with. The 300 engine is much better than another AC/20.

Edited by Stingz, 06 February 2013 - 09:26 PM.

[Norris J Packard]

The people who are railing against changes to the K2 and A1 are literally the worst sort of gamer.

They're not min-maxers, they're not power-players, they're babby's who are afraid of their I WIN button being taken away from them.

[Orzorn]

Norris J Packard, on 06 February 2013 - 09:17 PM, said:

The people who are railing against changes to the K2 and A1 are literally the worst sort of gamer.

They're not min-maxers, they're not power-players, they're babby's who are afraid of their I WIN button being taken away from them.

I thought we agreed it was called the "Raid Boss"?

Edited by Orzorn, 06 February 2013 - 09:19 PM.

[therealswilly]

Vassago Rain, on 06 February 2013 - 09:05 PM, said:

He's right, I find it really easy to not only harass but enrage the catapaults pilots who do exactly what you're doing in my HBK-4SP.

That said, I still think they turning radius should be reduced enough for them to at least have one weak point.

Edited by therealswilly, 06 February 2013 - 09:21 PM.

[Norris J Packard]

Orzorn, on 06 February 2013 - 09:19 PM, said:

I thought we agreed it was called the "Raid Boss"?

Oh, they are indeed called that, but these are the players I am talking about.

It's like being upset that Paladins got a well deserved nerf late into Burning Crusade.

[valkyrie]

Don't worry guys, it's totally balanced. They should've just shot the ears!



Oh wait, they COULDN'T because I was dropping 90 damage alpha strikes in their faces and removing half their weaponry before they could even dent me. In the off chance that they could or they got behind me, I just jumpjetted behind cover or did a jumpjet spin with owlvision and continued on my merry way. I was getting scores like this all night. You can't possibly tell me this is balanced.

[Vassago Rain]

valkyrie, on 06 February 2013 - 09:23 PM, said:

Don't worry guys, it's totally balanced. They should've just shot the ears!



Oh wait, they COULDN'T because I was dropping 90 damage alpha strikes in their faces and removing half their weaponry before they could even dent me. In the off chance that they could or they got behind me, I just jumpjetted behind cover or did a jumpjet spin with owlvision and continued on my merry way. I was getting scores like this all night. You can't possibly tell me this is balanced.

B-b-b-but shoot the ears! STAY BEHIND THEM!

I want to facehug a raidboss. White whales are best fought at knifing distance, so you can better deal with the 90 damage blasts.

Wait, what?