440 replies to this topic

[Like a Sir]

valkyrie, on 06 February 2013 - 09:23 PM, said:

Don't worry guys, it's totally balanced. They should've just shot the ears!



Oh wait, they COULDN'T because I was dropping 90 damage alpha strikes in their faces and removing half their weaponry before they could even dent me. In the off chance that they could or they got behind me, I just jumpjetted behind cover or did a jumpjet spin with owlvision and continued on my merry way. I was getting scores like this all night. You can't possibly tell me this is balanced.

I think you are confusing good piloting, combined with a good build and the incompetence of the other team with the mech being OP....
I am sorry but that screenshot doesn't prove much, just to give some food for argument, should AWS-PB be nerfed? Because if it's only based on screenshots then:

To me it just seems like A1 is very easy to get most of the potential from, and people don't take time to prioritize them and actually do something, instead of just going Oh crap A1 it's op I'm dead.

Now if when streak 6 launchers come out you can shove 6 of those in there, I would be very concerned...

[Bishop Steiner]

GalaxyBluestar, on 06 February 2013 - 10:17 PM, said:

yes very true but alas if your premade has no scouts and/or you play pugs with many of them not knowing how to scout, you're in for a rough ride.

and i still disagree about your list of OP as i've only heard or experienced one of these builds giving everyone a headache and someone's already correcting you so there you are.



would also like to point out that focus fire should NEVER be counted towards balancing designs you can say focus fire is a counter to everything so it's not valid.

As long as people want to run a team game as lone wolves, then yes, some build will be perceived as OP, others as Useless. Point being tactics. there is a balance in ALL designs that boat. They do ONE thing well. Get past that one thing, and they fall easy. The problem is too many people become fixated on that one thing.
And I would point out that the 9-11 Medium Laser HBK was THE scourge of Closed Beta, before engine nerfs. Ditto the Multi-Medium Awesome. And the QQing was epic for those. Before the LRM nerf and ECM, the 3 LRM15 DDC was the Bogeyman of the month. Ditto anything boating LRMs, especially once TAG showed up.

With the Legshield and ECM, the Streak Lights were the mechs of doom. You have been here more than long enough to see the cyclical nature, and the kneejerk nonsense of which design is the new "OP of the Month".

And once people learn how to deal with them, )or in a few cases the Devs realize holy crap! Those LRMs shouldn't be able to come STRAIGHT DOWN!!!! But note, the Mechs didnt get nerfed, the weapons were balanced)the rumblings inevitably fade away.

And if your permade has no scouts... how does that make a mech OP? Sounds more liek you just planned poorly. Kinda like Choosing to run high heat mechs.. then pulling Caustic. That is more of a "**** happens, you shoulda planned better" moment than a balance issue.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 06 February 2013 - 10:26 PM.

[Like a Sir]

Oh and for the record, I don't personaly care if they get hit with a nerf bat. But I do think that good pilots will still make them shine even with a nerfed torso twist, and most of you will just complain more, because when it was walking up to you, you were too busy trying to kill that spider with 2 medium lazers, while piloting your atlas.

[Norris J Packard]

Bishop Steiner, on 06 February 2013 - 10:15 PM, said:

wrong wrong and wrong. To run the dual AC/20 or Gauss builds, you can't realistically top 64 kph. And that's IF you want to have a nice easy to pop XL engine.

You don't play this game.

[Bishop Steiner]

yeah...... nice come back norris.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 06 February 2013 - 10:31 PM.

[GalaxyBluestar]

@bishopstiener

i voted no for overall chassis nerf and i said in my 1st post what i think is wrong with the a1 the srm alpha is just overwhelming, there should be some chance for retaliation from the fresh mech but with that kind of power there isn't medium mechs survive atlas and stalker close ranges but not the catapult as far as people hav been saying so i think that's where the problem is.

the k2 is the real problem child, hunchbacks have the guns for many lasers and stalkers have the ports for many missles but the catapult being a very manouverable chassis outshining the cataphracts at large ballistic boating :/ i think there could be a problem there.

tactics do have a place in balancing i agree with but please don't mention focus fire again it works on all "op" builds.

[Ialti]

I dunno. Looks like the crowd has spoken fairly definitively. And if the majority of players say they want cats to be the same the best option I can think of is to shrug and adapt. This game presents plenty of challenges. Some people like complaining about them, some people like overcoming them.

[Bishop Steiner]

way to focus on like... oh ONE sentence, and actually ignore the point or implications. Phuckit. It's your thread. Let the Phillistines QQ away. I got better things to do, like actually PLAY the game.

[Petrothian Tong]

What have you been smoking?

Cats are easy to kill. or neuter.

even a ravens can do it.

oh, inb4 hunchback nerf calls.... but my guess is boating ER PPC is the next thing that makes these people cry.... I sense the Awsome with more than 5+ energy slots is next whined about.


edit:

boating cats are only a problem if you ignore it (as in, let it freely walk up to you and shooting you in the back)

(not to mention both varients mentioned are useless beyond 270m, ignoring the glass cannon verison with dual gauss)

any half decent team with pilots with 2 brain cells together will call for everyone to focus fire on it.


now, if you one of those Clanner types who only put on 1 pt of leg armour and cry honor and what not when an SRM barrage takes out a leg... then yeah, cry more.

Edit 2: only pissy cause had enough of nerf this nerf that, I swear, some of these people wont be happy until we are all in commandos and only 1 small laser.

Edited by Petrothian Tong, 06 February 2013 - 10:49 PM.

[Norris J Packard]

Bishop Steiner, on 06 February 2013 - 10:30 PM, said:

yeah...... nice come back norris.

What? I'm not the one implicating you can use an XL engine with AC/20's in a K2.

I'm not the one implicating a Gausscat with an XL engine can only do 64 KPH.

I'm not the one implicating that you can just shoot off the side-torso on a Catapult.

You are, and none of these things are true. Therefore I must assume you don't play the game.

Edited by Norris J Packard, 06 February 2013 - 10:43 PM.

[GalaxyBluestar]

Bishop Steiner, on 06 February 2013 - 10:35 PM, said:

way to focus on like... oh ONE sentence, and actually ignore the point or implications. Phuckit. It's your thread. Let the Phillistines QQ away. I got better things to do, like actually PLAY the game.

sorry that i focused on one sentence and you suddenly lost your cool.

i did infact voted with the majority on the first question and don't care that "i lost" on the third question this poll is to clarify the communities feelings and the posts here are for opinions. it's up to the devs to decide what actually happens so qqing means nothing... yeah even i know that. i don't mind cata's where they are but i understand people being uptight and wanted some more numbers that's the point of this thread it's not about who's agenda is most correct etc. sorry if you feel your way should be the only way cause i don't care if i'm wrong or anything the poll has done it's work.

really wtf did you suddenly crumble like that for... so immature i'm surprised at you.

Edited by GalaxyBluestar, 06 February 2013 - 10:45 PM.

[Eddrick]

I run a 4 PPC Sniper Catapilt-K2. For the most part, I am not a contributer to the problem.

The only problem I have about redusing the torso twist (168 degrees) is that the Catapult has no Lower Arm Actuators. Meaning the arms can't twist. The Dragon can twist it's torso 108 degrees and the it's arms can twist 40 degrees. Allowing it an effective attack range of 148 degrees with the arms. The Spider can twist it's torso 132 degrees and it's arms can twist 40 degrees. Allowing an effective attack range of 172 degrees with the arms. The Spider can shoot even farther behind it then I can .

I'm fine with the moving the Balistic Hardpoints to the CT. A better one is, making a weapon in the torsos look like the weapon actualy does. I would love to see the PPCs I have in the side torsos look like PPCs. Limiting the size of the Hardpoint is ok. But, this limitation would have to be looked at for all Mechs. Which, can be very time consuming in both implementing it and testing it. Just, let the weapon appear as what weapon is there. It will make everyone happy and that is what they are planning on doing with all Hardpoints anyway.

[Vodrin Thales]

GalaxyBluestar, on 06 February 2013 - 10:32 PM, said:

@bishopstiener

i voted no for overall chassis nerf and i said in my 1st post what i think is wrong with the a1 the srm alpha is just overwhelming, there should be some chance for retaliation from the fresh mech but with that kind of power there isn't medium mechs survive atlas and stalker close ranges but not the catapult as far as people hav been saying so i think that's where the problem is.

the k2 is the real problem child, hunchbacks have the guns for many lasers and stalkers have the ports for many missles but the catapult being a very manouverable chassis outshining the cataphracts at large ballistic boating :/ i think there could be a problem there.

tactics do have a place in balancing i agree with but please don't mention focus fire again it works on all "op" builds.

I really don't agree with this. The Stalker can run with an alpha 10 points higher than the SRM cat and still carry some weapons that do reasonable damage beyond 270 meters. The method for dealing with an SRM cat is to have scouts spot them in advance and have your fire support rip them apart before they get to use that heavy alpha and mobility. Balanced groups playing well will still destroy these things due to the large cockpit/CT hitboxes and relatively low armor.

K2's are also powerful mechs, but each design gives up something significant. Gauss K2 has exploding weapons in the side torsos that can easily be exploited for a fast kill, especially as they will either be running an XL engine or will be Atlas slow. PPC K2's run very hot, and AC20 cats are slow, have a large CT/cockpit hit box, and relatively low armor for their speed.

Each of these mechs is highly specialized and do what they do best very well. Each is also fairly easy to counter. Very powerful in pug drops, but much less so when facing a coordinated 8 man drop. I say leave them alone and continue balancing builds and new systems. They are not a large enough problem to justify making changes to a chassis for.

Norris J Packard, on 06 February 2013 - 10:40 PM, said:

What? I'm not the one implicating you can use an XL engine with AC/20's in a K2.

I'm not the one implicating a Gausscat with an XL engine can only do 64 KPH.

I'm not the one implicating that you can just shoot off the side-torso on a Catapult.

You are, and none of these things are true. Therefore I must assume you don't play the game.

I think the word you are looking for is implying. Otherwise you are mostly correct (you can just shoot off the side torsos on a catapult. They are a bit small compared to the center torso, but nowhere near as hard to hit as the side torso of a Dragon).

Edited by Vodrin Thales, 06 February 2013 - 10:52 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

GalaxyBluestar, on 06 February 2013 - 10:42 PM, said:

sorry that i focused on one sentence and you suddenly lost your cool.

i did infact voted with the majority on the first question and don't care that "i lost" on the thrid question this poll is to clarify the communities feelings and the posts here are for opinions

really wtf did you suddenly crumble like that for... so immature i'm surprised at you.

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

"please don't mention" focus fire again it works on all "op" builds."

Indicative that you already have decided that you have the answer. Hence, no reason for me to continue to beat head against wall. If that somehow is immaturity in your world, or "losing one's cool", I suppose I am glad I don't share that world with you, as it seems to be a very sad place. On the other hand, instead of arguing a moot point with you, I simply conceded the floor to you.

Dunno what you are smoking, perceiving or otherwise misinterpreting, but that is entirely your affair.

(wow.. so deciding NOt to argue is the immature course now? Interesting)

Vodrin Thales, on 06 February 2013 - 10:47 PM, said:

I really don't agree with this. The Stalker can run with an alpha 10 points higher than the SRM cat and still carry some weapons that do reasonable damage beyond 270 meters. The method for dealing with an SRM cat is to have scouts spot them in advance and have your fire support rip them apart before they get to use that heavy alpha and mobility. Balanced groups playing well will still destroy these things due to the large cockpit/CT hitboxes and relatively low armor.

K2's are also powerful mechs, but each design gives up something significant. Gauss K2 has exploding weapons in the side torsos that can easily be exploited for a fast kill, especially as they will either be running an XL engine or will be Atlas slow. PPC K2's run very hot, and AC20 cats are slow, have a large CT/cockpit hit box, and relatively low armor for their speed.

Each of these mechs is highly specialized and do what they do best very well. Each is also fairly easy to counter. Very powerful in pug drops, but much less so when facing a coordinated 8 man drop. I say leave them alone and continue balancing builds and new systems.

just... stop. Give it up. Common sense and logic have no place here.

[Star Colonel Mustard Kerensky]

Vassago Rain, on 06 February 2013 - 08:30 PM, said:

Why do you want to make the few good guns in the game bad? Cats would then boat anything else that's good.
That's what their hardpoints allow them to do.

Energy is really strong? Take a C1 or K2. Boat them to high heaven.
Ballistics are great? K2 lets you boat them, and they're almost untouchable in your side torsos.
Missiles!? Everything except K2 can use these.

Even when combos are good, like right now, there's a catapult that can use it.

Cats need their torso twist range reduced. It's that simple. You shouldn't be allowed to shoot behind you when you can jumpjet, and boat, and have small sides, and your shape makes damage sometimes outright disappear into thin air.

Jumpjets need an overhaul, too. That's been known forever.

The problem is the mech, not the guns. No other mech is this meta-adaptable. Do you remember when they first tinkered with the balance, and gauss became really strong? I was saying we'd only see gauss from then on out, and that's what happened.

I disagree about the jumpjets. Spending the tonnage for them should give you an advantage over someone who doesn't.

[GalaxyBluestar]

Bishop Steiner, on 06 February 2013 - 10:48 PM, said:

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

"please don't mention" focus fire again it works on all "op" builds."

Indicative that you already have decided that you have the answer. Hence, no reason for me to continue to beat head against wall. If that somehow is immaturity in your world, or "losing one's cool", I suppose I am glad I don't share that world with you, as it seems to be a very sad place. On the other hand, instead of arguing a moot point with you, I simply conceded the floor to you.

Dunno what you are smoking, perceiving or otherwise misinterpreting, but that is entirely your affair.

(wow.. so deciding NOt to argue is the immature course now? Interesting)




just... stop. Give it up. Common sense and logic have no place here.

the pic is what i was referring too...

Edited by GalaxyBluestar, 06 February 2013 - 10:51 PM.

[GalaxyBluestar]

Vodrin Thales, on 06 February 2013 - 10:47 PM, said:

I really don't agree with this. The Stalker can run with an alpha 10 points higher than the SRM cat and still carry some weapons that do reasonable damage beyond 270 meters. The method for dealing with an SRM cat is to have scouts spot them in advance and have your fire support rip them apart before they get to use that heavy alpha and mobility. Balanced groups playing well will still destroy these things due to the large cockpit/CT hitboxes and relatively low armor.

K2's are also powerful mechs, but each design gives up something significant. Gauss K2 has exploding weapons in the side torsos that can easily be exploited for a fast kill, especially as they will either be running an XL engine or will be Atlas slow. PPC K2's run very hot, and AC20 cats are slow, have a large CT/cockpit hit box, and relatively low armor for their speed.

Each of these mechs is highly specialized and do what they do best very well. Each is also fairly easy to counter. Very powerful in pug drops, but much less so when facing a coordinated 8 man drop. I say leave them alone and continue balancing builds and new systems.

stalker is an assault now heavies obtaining more firepower than an assault doesn't strike to you as "ifey"

anyways these are just "OPINIONS" why is everyone getting heated just because we beg to differ? well as i said the poll's done it's work so does any of this really matter?

time to log off and enjoy the game instead of entering the eternal flame war that easily engulfs people.

[Petrothian Tong]

GalaxyBluestar, on 06 February 2013 - 10:54 PM, said:

why is everyone getting heated just because we beg to differ?

Just gets annoyed everytime someone cries nerf cause something killed him and he doesnt learn how to counter it.

COD syndrome.

[Bishop Steiner]

GalaxyBluestar, on 06 February 2013 - 10:50 PM, said:

the pic is what i was referring too...

yes.. to adequately describe the feeling of futility of debating a point, only to have it overlooked and missed, or flat ignored time and again. Basically, looking through this topic bro, I see more points as to what the real issues are, and it ain't that the mechs are OP themselves, so much as that people seem to intent on their stats, and as such, because of poor coordination and tactics, units that having glaring weaknesses become "OP".

So if someone posting a Meme on a forum is suddenly an issue dude, I dunno what to tell you. Other than what I already have. It's your party, you get to pick the music. If I don't like it, I can leave. But it doesn't mean I am going to go home and suddenly decide I like the music.

We have a failure to communicate, or to be able to compromise see eye to eye, whatever. The point being, I really don't feel like arguing about it it. I'll leave the constant instigating to Vassago or anyone else who actually enjoys it.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 06 February 2013 - 11:03 PM.

[Like a Sir]

GalaxyBluestar, on 06 February 2013 - 10:54 PM, said:

stalker is an assault now heavies obtaining more firepower than an assault doesn't strike to you as "ifey"

anyways these are just "OPINIONS" why is everyone getting heated just because we beg to differ? well as i said the poll's done it's work so does any of this really matter?

time to log off and enjoy the game instead of entering the eternal flame war that easily engulfs people.

You don't seem to be one of those people, who will argue till they are blue in the face, after the majority disagreed with them and provided good counter points in an argument. My hat is off to you. See you in game, just wish I wasn't working for another 2 hours