440 replies to this topic

[Vassago Rain]

Andross Deverow, on 07 February 2013 - 10:23 AM, said:

Stop whining. A damn Catapult has crap armor compared to both of those mechs and has comparable speed. Jesus... You want balance?


ummmm. chances are that one trick pony is a paper pony with an xl engine which gets cored itself in maybe 3 alphas from any mech. Stop whining...

How does the catapult have weak armor?

[Sifright]

Vassago Rain, on 07 February 2013 - 01:33 PM, said:

How does the catapult have weak armor?

maybe it's like the jenner that can core an atlas in 3 seconds?

[Dagger6T6]

Bishop Steiner, on 06 February 2013 - 09:43 PM, said:

K-2 Model should look like THIS


So that the actual silhouette looks right.

TBH, AC/20 or Gauss boating em is really not as big a deal as the new people think, since you make MAJOR sacrifices to achieve it. The AC/20 cat is a monster up close.... but toast at a distance. See it 500+ meters out, the trial K2 can toast it before it can even use those big guns.
If they ambush you in an alley, then you are usually screwed.. and that means the "AlleyCat" model did what it is meant to... to MUG other unsuspecting mechs.

The Gauss-A-Pult might be more useful in the wide open, but the Gauss are fragile (not uncommon for me to get one or both blasted, which can toast my XL) and take some time to recycle.

Both tend to have limited ammunition endurance, and are usually relatively slow. They are specialty mechs that when allowed to do their jobs, are great tools. But if taken out of their "comfort zones" both are very easy to counter.


The A1- series, on the other hand, quite simply has too many missile hardpoints. They do have their own limitations (like no energy weapons) but be it the old 6x LRM5 Shake-A-Pult that used to rock your mech too bad to aim with chain fired LRM5s, or a Streak-A-Pult with their unerring CT seeking missiles, or the crude, but effective "Splat-A-Pults" racking 6x SRM6, they tend to be a little more than the sum of their parts.

the LRM5 and Streak Models have been at least partially addressed by minimizing missile impact shake. The SplatCat, is death on legs under 200 meters, but beyond that is largely a joke. Also it runs hot, and again doesn't have much endurance.

I would like to see something done to reign in boating, but it also has to be within reason. Very few of these designs are "broke" in the sense ECM/Streak combos are, wherre they dictate the entire game. All can be countered with other mech designs, good tactics and peripheral awareness.

I really guess I am tired of the whole "this mech is killing me, so it has to be broken/or use an aimbot/ insert QQ here" nonsense.

Most of the issues, be it "broken" designs, pug stomping or such are a product of people not wanting an actual challenge, and/or the lone wolf "i don't want to work as a team" mentality, IMO.

actually no... the K2 should really only be mounting the main large weapons up in the ears... like where the ppcs are in the stock version, but due to the nature of the hardpoints, when mounting the Gauss rifles, they get shoehorned into the torsos, when they should actually be in the ears... just from a theoretical real life logical engineering standpoint and/or just keeping with the "spirit of the design" in the K2

just my opinion of course

[QuantumButler]

Sifright, on 07 February 2013 - 01:37 PM, said:

maybe it's like the jenner that can core an atlas in 3 seconds?

Oh oh, I know what this is called.

Wait, what was it?

I forgot...

Oh that's it!

A lie.

[Vasces Diablo]

K2s are actually pretty fragile and all that middle ammo can be blown up.

[BlackSquirrel]

Issue is more with maps giving the ability to easily get into range for wtf SRM alpha. ( I see them succeed more on ice, and river than other maps) This can't really be helped until more maps are created which allow for longer range play.

Also engine size on said mechs such as stalker and cata. This would probably do more than you think. As it would take more effort to get into said range.

-> Best thing to do is call them out from far away and primary them before they can get under 300m. <-

[Vassago Rain]

Vasces Diablo, on 07 February 2013 - 01:45 PM, said:

K2s are actually pretty fragile and all that middle ammo can be blown up.

A catapult with somewhere that's not the legs or head?

[Sifright]

BlackSquirrel, on 07 February 2013 - 01:49 PM, said:

Issue is more with maps giving the ability to easily get into range for wtf SRM alpha. ( I see them succeed more on ice, and river than other maps) This can't really be helped until more maps are created which allow for longer range play.

Also engine size on said mechs such as stalker and cata. This would probably do more than you think. As it would take more effort to get into said range.

-> Best thing to do is call them out from far away and primary them before they can get under 300m. <-

see that is the best place to engage them, the problem is all of the maps allow them to get within 200 very easily.

Even Caustic which is the worst map for an SRMCAT still has enough cover and terrain features to allow the cat to get in your face.

Its all nice and good to say Engage at x range and dont get close.

but the Cat is fast enough to dictate engagement zones. He knows his weakness so he doesn't run into the open. He is quick enough to charge from cover to cover to step on your base and force you to come back meaning you have to engage him in his preferred range on most maps.

[Tolkien]

I saw your poll and voted generally no, since I have a mixed relationship with the cats.

They are dangerous builds in the right hands, and they do get me from time to time, but I do not find their presence overwhelming. I personally find an enemy ECM in the area to be a much bigger imbalancing factor than either the boomcat or the ac40 cat.

The boomcat does zero damage beyond 270 and it can be disarmed in a hurry.

The AC40 cat is deadly but fires slowly and doesn't have great range or armor.

I am glad that the catapult family has these two mechs actually as ECM made the standard catapult role of fire support a little weak - now they excel as close range brawlers, and I am glad they have a niche.

[Vasces Diablo]

Vassago Rain, on 07 February 2013 - 01:52 PM, said:

A catapult with somewhere that's not the legs or head?

Haha... "Missile ammo". Stupid auto correct.

[BlackSquirrel]

Sifright, on 07 February 2013 - 01:54 PM, said:

see that is the best place to engage them, the problem is all of the maps allow them to get within 200 very easily.

Even Caustic which is the worst map for an SRMCAT still has enough cover and terrain features to allow the cat to get in your face.

Its all nice and good to say Engage at x range and dont get close.

but the Cat is fast enough to dictate engagement zones. He knows his weakness so he doesn't run into the open. He is quick enough to charge from cover to cover to step on your base and force you to come back meaning you have to engage him in his preferred range on most maps.

Well when you think about it Caustic has the largest cover of any map the volcano. Take river city where there are more open sight lines I dont find them to be that much of an issue. But most maps and that everyone sticks the largest engine into most mechs means easy to get into engagment range. When we have larger maps I dont think this will be as much an issue. So I dont see it so much of a balance issue... rather than circumstance. Though maybe certain variants of mechs need to have less twist angle and speed than others.

AKA quirks per variant than chassis.

[Sifright]

BlackSquirrel, on 07 February 2013 - 02:00 PM, said:

Well when you think about it Caustic has the largest cover of any map the volcano. Take river city where there are more open sight lines I dont find them to be that much of an issue. But most maps and that everyone sticks the largest engine into most mechs means easy to get into engagment range. When we have larger maps I dont think this will be as much an issue. So I dont see it so much of a balance issue... rather than circumstance. Though maybe certain variants of mechs need to have less twist angle and speed than others.

AKA quirks per variant than chassis.

River city is the map with MOST cover. Lower city and upper city both have loads of building you can use to run around in ducking out of sight and ambushing from.

it's only a problem if you are intending to charge up the river in which case you will die regardless of what mech you take.

If you start at the lower base it's relatively easy to go the G line and use the buildings as cover to enter the other base with out ever being hit by the other team. Even more likely the other team has moved into lower city and you can pop out from a building an instantly cut at least one mech in half in the opening second of actual combat.

The maps favour sub 200m engagements far to much to allow the A1 to continue to be as effective as it currently is at that range.

[Sidekick]

SI The Joker, on 07 February 2013 - 07:01 AM, said:

14 pages in, wow I missed the boat on this one!

There's another thread about the A1 specifically... I posted this which generally applies to ALL catapults:




The only input I have with regard to the K2 is the locationof the weaponry.

Slide the ballistics into the flappy-dog ears on the K2 and the world will be golden.

This.

[LaserAngel]

Vasces Diablo, on 07 February 2013 - 01:59 PM, said:

Haha... "Missile ammo". Stupid auto correct.

Well alright, have fun stripping off 49 points of armor from my Catapult C1's leg.

[Tempered]

I think that any catapult A1 firing more than 3 missle salvos at once should fall backwards on their ***. That is quite a bit of back blast, after all.

[Sifright]

Tempered, on 07 February 2013 - 03:18 PM, said:

I think that any catapult A1 firing more than 3 missle salvos at once should fall backwards on their ***. That is quite a bit of back blast, after all.

Missile tech has been recoilless for a long time with the correct design implementation, no reason to assume btech wouldn't do just this.

Regardless the mechs field advanced gyro stabilizers nothing the mech shouldn't be able to handle.

[pistolero]

I voted something other !

I have an AC 20 Cat ... i like it ... it is lot of fun ..... it is not overpowered...... but somehow it feels not "right"

i am for a change in the hardpoint system

i would like to see a combination of the mech 4 weaponslot system and the "normal" critical slot system

.... wich of corse would lead to other ( maybe even bigger ) balance problems and the corresponding tears on the forum

[Bishop Steiner]

Dagger6T6, on 07 February 2013 - 01:43 PM, said:

actually no... the K2 should really only be mounting the main large weapons up in the ears... like where the ppcs are in the stock version, but due to the nature of the hardpoints, when mounting the Gauss rifles, they get shoehorned into the torsos, when they should actually be in the ears... just from a theoretical real life logical engineering standpoint and/or just keeping with the "spirit of the design" in the K2

just my opinion of course

Opinion is fine, this is simply mimicking the hardpoint locations on the K2. Since the chances of hardpoints getting moved are...oh.. about NIL, I stuck with.

[BanditRaptor]

pistolero, on 07 February 2013 - 03:38 PM, said:

I voted something other !

I have an AC 20 Cat ... i like it ... it is lot of fun ..... it is not overpowered...... but somehow it feels not "right"

i am for a change in the hardpoint system

i would like to see a combination of the mech 4 weaponslot system and the "normal" critical slot system

.... wich of corse would lead to other ( maybe even bigger ) balance problems and the corresponding tears on the forum

My friends and I have been arguing there should be large and small weapon slots for a while now.

Large/Small Ballistics, Large/Small Lasers, missiles stay the same.

[Tyrask Hazen]

in mw3 u used to used a puma with max engine and 16 machine guns. you could core an atlas in 3 seconds with that thing. people griped about it but I did it anyways. I don't use the srm cat because I don't like catapults. I never have. if some one figured out to have an advantage in the game good for them. I've never had a problem with wooping these srm cats or ppc stalkers with my dragon, if your not good enough to out smart these guys that's your fault not theirs. you just wait till(if) we get caln mechs. people will gripe about 6lbx-ac-10 Diashis or madct-3 with 10 lasers and 2 lrm 20s that does 97kph. people will wine no mater what. PS. I want a madcat-3 soooooooooo bad