118 replies to this topic

[Joseph Mallan]

3rdworld, on 07 February 2013 - 06:27 AM, said:

pretend there are no diferences between battletech and mechwarrior. But that doesn't make it the case.

its the Universe I am concerned with not the game's mechanics so much. As long as it is close to what I have studied and run for 25+ years I will support it. If it becomes something different, I may not.

[3rdworld]

Joseph Mallan, on 07 February 2013 - 06:41 AM, said:

its the Universe I am concerned with not the game's mechanics so much. As long as it is close to what I have studied and run for 25+ years I will support it. If it becomes something different, I may not.

We are totally discussing universe not mechanics here.

Please leave until you can stay on topic.

[Joseph Mallan]

The intended role of the Mech is only what the play designs it for. I read a post that a Centurion is cannot be a brawler, yet it can carry a similar load as the brawler Hunchback.

these

Quote

So thats for the Awesome:
+ better than average torso twist speed
+ better than average torso twist angle
+ reduced spread for missile weapons
+ increased heat threshold
+ increased heat dissipation

- low angle for LRM - bad for indirect fire
- pinpoint issues
- slower reloading of missile weapons
- slower turn and acceleration rate

Are mechanics changes.... you were saying?

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 07 February 2013 - 06:50 AM.

[Karl Streiger]

3rdworld, on 07 February 2013 - 06:43 AM, said:

We are totally discussing universe not mechanics here.

Please leave until you can stay on topic.

we are totally discussing both - i believe your fault is that you mix BatteTech with Board Game or TabelTop.
Then you are right...MWO ist not the TableTop...and even there you don't have such a perks and quirks system.
You have one, but for a really short time (with Strat Ops and rules for MechModifications - and most MechModifications we do in MWO are only possible in manufactorys)

My topic my rules ... Joseph Mallan please stay.

Edited by Karl Streiger, 07 February 2013 - 06:52 AM.

[3rdworld]

Karl Streiger, on 07 February 2013 - 06:51 AM, said:

we are totally discussing both - i believe your fault is that you mix BatteTech with Board Game or TabelTop.
Then you are right...MWO ist not the TableTop...and even there you don't have such a perks and quirks system.
You have one, but for a really short time (with Strat Ops and rules for MechModifications - and most MechModifications we do in MWO are only possible in manufactorys)

My topic my rules ... Joseph Mallan please stay.

No, I mix arbitrarily limiting customization -> battletech and not limiting customization -> Mechwarrior.

Your topic is just a thinly veiled "nerf ballistic cats" thread.

Joseph Mallan, on 07 February 2013 - 06:47 AM, said:

The intended role of the Mech is only what the play designs it for. I read a post that a Centurion is cannot be a brawler, yet it can carry a similar load as the brawler Hunchback.

these
Are mechanics changes.... you were saying?

that was sarcasm chief.

[Karl Streiger]

3rdworld, on 07 February 2013 - 06:58 AM, said:

Your topic is just a thinly veiled "nerf ballistic cats" thread.

You think so?
Thats not the intended role of this topic

the role is:
move armor form the arms of the Hunchback into the right torso,
move armor form the legs of the Atlas into the side torsos
...
when this isn't BattleTech this modification should be able too, right?

Edited by Karl Streiger, 07 February 2013 - 07:05 AM.

[Lukoi Banacek]

Part of these debates stem from a flawed premise to begin with; TT is not 100% accurately translated into video games where human precision, reaction and skills take the place of random dice rolls.

So the original roles from written material in TT and novels do not necessarily remain the same once in a realtime environment. It's tough enough for the Devs to get the game towards a semblance a balance as it is without expecting the Mechs to have the customization that the majority of the player base seems to desire while still keeping them within these "canon derived" roles.

Fact of the matter is, roles develop as the raw materials change. A Mech may no longer fit the canonical role based on game play mechanics, implementation of certain facets of the game (PPC's, ballistics, ECM etc) but they do have a role. It's one developed by the players and the tactics we all find generally effective over time...not the writings of authors who didn't even play the game in some cases and playtesters who used random dice rolls to determine weapon strike locations.

I for one, don't want to force the Devs to work with their hands behind their backs anymore than they already are by asking them to somehow make TT stock variants somehow the norm and to minimize the roles we find for these Mechs. Over time, we'll generate how we scout, how we brawl, what the best sniping platforms are, the best missile platforms etc. I don't need it spoon fed to me or directed. New Mechs came from the innovation of their units, pilots and people...here its the same.

Edited by Lukoi, 07 February 2013 - 07:15 AM.

[Kyone Akashi]

MWO, even with its "reduced" customization compared to some other games, already allows us way more customization than is actually viable within the constraints of the background. Still, I agree with other pilots in that certain designs perform better in one role than in another, even if you can tweak them a little towards any direction. Hardpoints, engine size cap, even something as minor as height or weapon placement can affect how a specific type of 'Mech performs in a specific situation. The trick is finding a ride that is suitable for whatever role you intend to fulfill on the battlefield as well as being in harmony with your ki (i.e. "looking cool" to you ).

[SI The Joker]

The whole concept of a role is great... but when it comes down to brass tacks... my role on the battlefield is to help my team win by killing my enemies or capturing their bases.

The role you fulfill changes from second to second... situation to situation. It's intangible.

[Mycrus]

i'm a simple robojock...

mechs are intended to kill other mechs... and i outfit them accordingly...

[Karl Streiger]

Mycrus, on 07 February 2013 - 07:55 AM, said:

i'm a simple robojock...

mechs are intended to kill other mechs... and i outfit them accordingly...

hm ok...so a Spider was build to kill other Mechs that is indeed very interesting...

SI The Joker, on 07 February 2013 - 07:38 AM, said:

The role you fulfill changes from second to second... situation to situation. It's intangible.

Thats sound for me that you are playing cavalry?

Kyone Akashi, on 07 February 2013 - 07:25 AM, said:

The trick is finding a ride that is suitable for whatever role you intend to fulfill on the battlefield as well as being in harmony with your ki (i.e. "looking cool" to you ).

I think that is a really good sentence. My Atlas is still a Atlas even through all the modification - on the other hand it is hardly possible to build a Atlas that boat specific weapons (only thing i can imagine is a RS with 4 Large Laser or 4 PPCs)
However the Atlas was build for command duty...mostly. The only real killing assault Mech actual in the Game is the Stalker, an we all know that the Stalker is the killing machine it is intended to be. At least it doesn't matter if its carry 6 PPCs or 5 SRMs and 4 Medium Laser....fire power is incredible - for the cost of mobility and a really bad vulnerability for cross fire.

[Joseph Mallan]

3rdworld, on 07 February 2013 - 06:58 AM, said:

that was sarcasm chief.

Hard to read sarcasm sometimes Sir.

[Mycrus]

Karl Streiger, on 07 February 2013 - 08:05 AM, said:

hm ok...so a Spider was build to kill other Mechs that is indeed very interesting...

did you take an all TAG spider? now THAT would be interesting...

[DrxAbstract]

Joseph Mallan, on 07 February 2013 - 08:08 AM, said:

Hard to read sarcasm sometimes Sir.

I agree - the S, a and r are crisp and clear... but casm is damned near illegible.

[TheForce]

VonRunnegen, on 07 February 2013 - 05:27 AM, said:

MWO is not BT Universe come to life.

I would love it if mechs had roles like they do in the MechWarrior/Battletech universe.

Unfortunately the sad truth is that VonRunnegen is correct: MWO is MinmaxWarrior Online, the intended role of a mech doesn't mean feldercarb.

RANT RANT WHINE WHINE QQ!@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@!!!!!!!!!!

[Karl Streiger]

Ok back from the field.

I can't loose the feeling that you missunderstand me.
The intension is not to reduce the players ability to modify his BattleMech that it fit him like a glove. the intesion is to gave a player the choice - modify or not modify and give those that don't or only minimal modify their Mechs a minor advantages.

Is it necessary? No it is not. of course this is just a idea... some may say a brain fart.

An Awesome example, because i killed three or four of them today. All of them were boating. One was a pure LRM Awesome, the other were Pretty Babys minmaxed (or their owner thought so) for infight.

I do not know if they were experienced or were not...but those pity ones in their pretty baby thought that their tripple SRMs 6s are enough to fight one on one with a nearly undamaged Atlas. (I'm not that good - and I even was killed by a Pretty Baby with SRMs - even when my Atlas was seriously damaged)

When they would have kept distance - and used Laser, PPC and LRM in direct fire together with there high mobility they would have had a chance. That means the enemy team wouldn't have lost the benifit of another mech that fast.

So why they did rebuild ther Pretty Babys into short range brawler?
Simple because MWO is actual a game for bruiser, if you don't do alpha damage of 50 or above in a single salvo your mech isn't worth anything.

A good example for a beginners mech - that seems to become more and more a mech for elite pilots is the Hunchback. As far as i can remember it was a real pleasure to pilot one of those - i even can remember that i was sad - that i have chosen a Atlas as Founder instead of a Hunchback.
I ask you how many Hunchbacks did you have seen in the last games.
I believe today it were 8 at best.. one of them a SP - was a elite pilot...with a good feeling for timing and excellent shooting
one of the reasons is ECM
second reason slow speed
third and fourth reason - they have neighter the armor nor the fire power to have more than a chance to survive in MWO as it is in the moment.
(Even in the TRO it is said that the Hunchback is a second line...fighter... hold back until some damage is dealt to an enemy - and when he think he is about to win the Hunchbacks and their Big Bore AC 20 rip them into pieces)

Have they any chance even in the second line?
The enemy got ECM Cicada or Zombie Centurions for them. A single well aimed salvo and nearly the complete armament is gone.

I'm sure this is as well as the A1 hype just a momentary trend - and soon there will be less Atlas or Stalkers and more Hunchbacks in the field.
One way could be to give all BattleMechs a character.

There is at last another reason for reward pilots using their Mech in the fashion of the lore.
PGI may be forced to bring more BattleMechs to fill that gap.
Do you really want to go into an infight with a 80t BattleMech when you can have for example a Victor for that?
Do you really want to brawl at with a Stalker when you must be affraid to find your self facing a King Crab - or Katana?

[Gremlich Johns]

Ahh, Role warfare.

I submit that ECM on light mechs have removed the need for a scout. Not eliminated, just removed the need for one.

Not to say a team will not use an ECM Light as a scout, but why bother with one when you can just cloak the main force with a full complement of mechs and move to the enemy with impunity. It will be unlikely that you will be surprised.

Of course, since all Clan mechs can be equipped with ECM, unless you outfit your team only with IS ECM equipped mechs (removing the hunchie, centurion, dragon, etc from your lineup) you will have a tough go of it.

[Dagger6T6]

is this where I sign up for the stock mech league?

seriously though I hope that is an option sometime later in MWO

[TheForce]

Dagger6T6, on 07 February 2013 - 01:37 PM, said:

is this where I sign up for the stock mech league?

seriously though I hope that is an option sometime later in MWO

PLEASE JESUS!!!!!!!!!

[DEN_Ninja]

This Might invoke lots of trolls and flaming but I would love it for Catapults to be used for their intended role of LRM fire support.

I am tired of A1's useless charging into battle dying or losing their arms within seconds and hardly even contribute to the team with less than 80 damage. I am tired of these poorly skilled pilots thinking that they can kill you without having to aim.

Sadly us LRM Catapults are stuck sitting withing 500m because we have to put in TAG and only have enough tonnage for 2 LRM 20's. No light to spot for us. If enemy lights come after me I either will only have 3 Medlum lasers or a single medium laser to defend myself. Cause no one is going to help the LRM boat from certain death.

Doesn't help when assaults sit back as LRM boats when they should be up in front dishing out damage with some devastating weapons. Instead I see a stalker with 4 LRM 15's and maybe 4 medlium lasers with no tag sitting back wasting 15 tons of ammo.

Sadly, the dream of being able to being a mobile LRM platform was ruined the moment that lights like the 3L stopped scouting for us. It doesn't help that I can lose lock for one brief second because the ECM bubble of a light mech swings by and I lose everything. Cruising at 70kph desperately trying to do the job intended.

Not to say I don't have some amazing games where those LRM's get kills or soften targets. It just doesn't happen and it turns out that I have to somehow get kills with my medium lasers while I carry 20 tons of useless LRM launchers and ammo.

Oh by the way. I have not made a AC/20 or Gausspult since Open Beta. I use ER large lasers or ER ppc's like a real K2 pilot would. I also love dishing out damage over 800m and getting more damage done then the resident Ballista Kat on the team.

Edited by Tichorius Davion, 07 February 2013 - 01:52 PM.