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Jyi, on 08 February 2013 - 07:02 PM, said:
No, he's more like an armchair mechwarrior. The point was, you don't really seem to have experience in the particular area we are talking about.
And yes, while I see your statistics are quite impressive (with the exception of k/d, which was ridicilously easy to abuse in CB, and thus really means nothing), according to your own statement, you've never played in a team. Thus, you don't really even know how different premade 8v8 is compared to any of the other alternatives MWO had in place before.
Anyways, I'm interested, so lets analyze your stats here: 2:1 win/loss seems about right if you were a really damn good player. Considering that even the worst players may randomly get in groups that have awesome players, a win/loss -ratio when pugging is quite dependant on luck. But obviously, a very good player can turn an average or even a bad group to a decent one with some work.
However, the way it usually works in MWO is different, especially back in CB where pretty much every match had at least one person on one side disconnect or sit AFK in base for whatever reasons they had.
The way pugs usually go, even if there's one really good player on one side, is like this: the good player may try to communicate, but probably doesn't bother, knowing no one will listen. Then there's this other dude, who thinks he's also a damn good player, and he shouts out, starting right from the get go, these ridicilous commands, probably with CAPS on, like "EVERYONE GO GLINE". And even if some people bother listening, others will not, which ends up splitting the group. Now that the, lets call it "main group" (those who were listeninging to MR HOTSHOT COMMANDER WITH HIS CAPS ON), has actually waddled towards their desired direction, the MR HOTSHOT COMMANDER is simply done giving commands. And that's pretty much what everyone expects nowadays. That's the extent of "lets device a cool strategy" in the minds of most pugs.
But now that the main group is where they were commanded, they find themselves wondering what they should do next. Suddenly they need to think for themselves, and usually they ALL develop their own CRAZILY good tactic that'll work like a charm in their head. Then they'll just skip telling it to others, because.. well, they wouldn't listen anyway (and they probably wouldn't). All this boils down to this: the main group probably waddles in somewhat similar direction, and starts shooting at first enemy they see. In an awful lot of cases that first enemy is just the spearhead of the whole enemy team, so lets assume it is in this case as well. So our main group starts shooting at this first enemy they see, that being the spearhead of the whole enemy team, then one of them, his name being Jimmy Waffles Kerensky, gives chace, because he's like a clanner and stuff, and clanners are aggressive and **** and he's having some cool clanner Trial of something or another in middle of the battle field.
The next guy, Lt Pantless, hangs back, adapting to that tactic he was earlier thinking of. And the last couple of people here, lets say it's 3 of them, including the MR HOTSHOT COMMANDER, who's name is actually Star Captain Martha Kerensky Steiner-Liao (who by the way thinks that since he got his group this far, he has done enough, and inside his own head goes like "AAAAWWW YEEEEAAA.. LIKE A BOSS!"); well, him and xyt the 24th and PandaOnANuclearSub will just follow Lt Pantless like a sheep, as Lt Pantless is actually just the mech in front of them, and his mech has a pro paint, so he must be good.
And all goes well until Jimmy Waffles Kerensky runs into the whole enemy team. Then Lt Pantless decides to reveal his master plan, which is to tactically stay in cover, while Star Captain Martha Kerensky Steiner-Liao, like the boss he is, just rushes after Jimmy Waffles Kerensky, because he's just that badass and also a clanner. xyt the 24th runs away in panic and PandaOnANuclearSub stays with Lt Pantless.
By this time, Jimmy Waffles Kerensky is dead and cursing at "freebirth scum", after which he proceeds to disconnect from the game. And 15 seconds later Star Captain Martha Kerensky Steiner-Liao is dead too. They got 0 kills. He also proceeds to curse at "freebirth scum" and disconnects. Lt Pantless is still hanging to his tactic, which at this point is pretty much sitting put and doing nothing, but PandaOnANuclearSub has realized he may still be able to stay alive and sneakily runs into a map corner in his Dragon and shuts down there and hopes no one finds him. Lt Pantless is now alone versus the whole enemy team.
During these events, the following has happened on the other side: the 3 others in the game, WulfWolfenElementalWolf in his Stalker, 2GrandmasAndACup in his COM 2D and MrHappyponyRainbows in his RVN 4X. The 2 lights, instead of scouting and going for the completely unguarded enemy cap, have stuck with the assault, which is a full LRM Stalker that goes around 48 kph, and they have reached the upper city, which is, incidentally almost as far as possible from the "main group". The LRM boat starts spouting in chat "PLZ MARK TARGETS" while the lights, realizing half their team is dead and the enemy hasn't lost a single mech, start to go for the enemy base cap.
On their way, the lights encounter xyt the 24th and he joins with them, still shaken from his last encounter. They all decide to go for the enemy base, but xyt the 24th is running a trial Catapult K2 and quickly gets left behind and swarmed by the enemy who have by now killed Lt Pantless - who was by the way a pretty decent player and even managed to kill the enemy stock Hunchback 4G that was pretty damaged by Jimmy Waffles Kerensky and Star Captain Martha Kerensky Steiner-Liao. With xyt the 24th dead there are now 3 mechs left, but one of them is still hiding in a corner of the map, shut down. The 2 lights have reached the cap and almost actually won the game for their team, but at the last moment, the 2 enemy lights, 2 RVN 3L's, come and simply dominate these poor souls, only to have their kills stolen by a Cicada 2A with 4 Machineguns and a TAG. An epic accomplishent, now that you look at it.
Now there are only two mechs in the game, WulfWolfenElementalWolf in his Stalker and PandaOnANuclearSub the Dragon shut down in the far corner of the map. And the enemy, not bothering to search for them simply decide to move and cap. By this time, WulfWolfenElementalWolf is still asking for someone to TAG people in chat. Game over!
Now, DrxAbstract, insert yourself into this (not at all too uncommon match) and replace any of the pilots and tell me how you manage to get a 7,51 kdr. Because this is what pug matches usually are.
And yes, while I see your statistics are quite impressive (with the exception of k/d, which was ridicilously easy to abuse in CB, and thus really means nothing), according to your own statement, you've never played in a team. Thus, you don't really even know how different premade 8v8 is compared to any of the other alternatives MWO had in place before.
Anyways, I'm interested, so lets analyze your stats here: 2:1 win/loss seems about right if you were a really damn good player. Considering that even the worst players may randomly get in groups that have awesome players, a win/loss -ratio when pugging is quite dependant on luck. But obviously, a very good player can turn an average or even a bad group to a decent one with some work.
However, the way it usually works in MWO is different, especially back in CB where pretty much every match had at least one person on one side disconnect or sit AFK in base for whatever reasons they had.
The way pugs usually go, even if there's one really good player on one side, is like this: the good player may try to communicate, but probably doesn't bother, knowing no one will listen. Then there's this other dude, who thinks he's also a damn good player, and he shouts out, starting right from the get go, these ridicilous commands, probably with CAPS on, like "EVERYONE GO GLINE". And even if some people bother listening, others will not, which ends up splitting the group. Now that the, lets call it "main group" (those who were listeninging to MR HOTSHOT COMMANDER WITH HIS CAPS ON), has actually waddled towards their desired direction, the MR HOTSHOT COMMANDER is simply done giving commands. And that's pretty much what everyone expects nowadays. That's the extent of "lets device a cool strategy" in the minds of most pugs.
But now that the main group is where they were commanded, they find themselves wondering what they should do next. Suddenly they need to think for themselves, and usually they ALL develop their own CRAZILY good tactic that'll work like a charm in their head. Then they'll just skip telling it to others, because.. well, they wouldn't listen anyway (and they probably wouldn't). All this boils down to this: the main group probably waddles in somewhat similar direction, and starts shooting at first enemy they see. In an awful lot of cases that first enemy is just the spearhead of the whole enemy team, so lets assume it is in this case as well. So our main group starts shooting at this first enemy they see, that being the spearhead of the whole enemy team, then one of them, his name being Jimmy Waffles Kerensky, gives chace, because he's like a clanner and stuff, and clanners are aggressive and **** and he's having some cool clanner Trial of something or another in middle of the battle field.
The next guy, Lt Pantless, hangs back, adapting to that tactic he was earlier thinking of. And the last couple of people here, lets say it's 3 of them, including the MR HOTSHOT COMMANDER, who's name is actually Star Captain Martha Kerensky Steiner-Liao (who by the way thinks that since he got his group this far, he has done enough, and inside his own head goes like "AAAAWWW YEEEEAAA.. LIKE A BOSS!"); well, him and xyt the 24th and PandaOnANuclearSub will just follow Lt Pantless like a sheep, as Lt Pantless is actually just the mech in front of them, and his mech has a pro paint, so he must be good.
And all goes well until Jimmy Waffles Kerensky runs into the whole enemy team. Then Lt Pantless decides to reveal his master plan, which is to tactically stay in cover, while Star Captain Martha Kerensky Steiner-Liao, like the boss he is, just rushes after Jimmy Waffles Kerensky, because he's just that badass and also a clanner. xyt the 24th runs away in panic and PandaOnANuclearSub stays with Lt Pantless.
By this time, Jimmy Waffles Kerensky is dead and cursing at "freebirth scum", after which he proceeds to disconnect from the game. And 15 seconds later Star Captain Martha Kerensky Steiner-Liao is dead too. They got 0 kills. He also proceeds to curse at "freebirth scum" and disconnects. Lt Pantless is still hanging to his tactic, which at this point is pretty much sitting put and doing nothing, but PandaOnANuclearSub has realized he may still be able to stay alive and sneakily runs into a map corner in his Dragon and shuts down there and hopes no one finds him. Lt Pantless is now alone versus the whole enemy team.
During these events, the following has happened on the other side: the 3 others in the game, WulfWolfenElementalWolf in his Stalker, 2GrandmasAndACup in his COM 2D and MrHappyponyRainbows in his RVN 4X. The 2 lights, instead of scouting and going for the completely unguarded enemy cap, have stuck with the assault, which is a full LRM Stalker that goes around 48 kph, and they have reached the upper city, which is, incidentally almost as far as possible from the "main group". The LRM boat starts spouting in chat "PLZ MARK TARGETS" while the lights, realizing half their team is dead and the enemy hasn't lost a single mech, start to go for the enemy base cap.
On their way, the lights encounter xyt the 24th and he joins with them, still shaken from his last encounter. They all decide to go for the enemy base, but xyt the 24th is running a trial Catapult K2 and quickly gets left behind and swarmed by the enemy who have by now killed Lt Pantless - who was by the way a pretty decent player and even managed to kill the enemy stock Hunchback 4G that was pretty damaged by Jimmy Waffles Kerensky and Star Captain Martha Kerensky Steiner-Liao. With xyt the 24th dead there are now 3 mechs left, but one of them is still hiding in a corner of the map, shut down. The 2 lights have reached the cap and almost actually won the game for their team, but at the last moment, the 2 enemy lights, 2 RVN 3L's, come and simply dominate these poor souls, only to have their kills stolen by a Cicada 2A with 4 Machineguns and a TAG. An epic accomplishent, now that you look at it.
Now there are only two mechs in the game, WulfWolfenElementalWolf in his Stalker and PandaOnANuclearSub the Dragon shut down in the far corner of the map. And the enemy, not bothering to search for them simply decide to move and cap. By this time, WulfWolfenElementalWolf is still asking for someone to TAG people in chat. Game over!
Now, DrxAbstract, insert yourself into this (not at all too uncommon match) and replace any of the pilots and tell me how you manage to get a 7,51 kdr. Because this is what pug matches usually are.
I didn't even read this post, I just wanted to quote it because it was huge.
