343 replies to this topic

[CarnifexMaximus]

JokerVictor, on 07 February 2013 - 10:40 AM, said:

Oh hi there Carnifex, you were on my team last night... on frozen city. Yes, we got murdered. Again, this isn't about whether this is cheap or not. I just wanted to know what strategies work to counter it.

We clearly went about that in entirely the wrong way. We tried to suppress them, and failed horribly. We should have either gone through the cave or tried to maneuver out to the far right to spread the fire out. Instead we sat there and died. Lesson learned.

Yeah, that was still a fun match though. You are right, we should rushed them thru the tunnel.

[Jez]

I'm not concerned at all about the "poptart" 3D. It runs at a max speed of 71 kph, only outputs 35 dmg per volley, has heating issues with just 2 PPCs. If I see one with ER-PPCs then that's a no brainer, I'm just going to rush it because it will overheat and shutdown once the fight gets into close range. They are most vulnerable when in the air and when landing. That's when you unload a full alpha into them.

There are more threatening builds out there than the "poptart". If you're going to stand out in the open and not take cover when the 3D is sniping you then the problem isn't the 3D being over powered but rather you being too easy of a target.

Edited by Jez, 07 February 2013 - 11:28 AM.

[Kylere]

This builds are a joke against a team, against PUGs so far they have been effective. When I see the cheese happening it is too late to teach my fellow puggers so I do my best and maintain situational awareness of the sniping weenies and their LOS.

They die like any other cheese build at the right range.

[Greyfyl]

SpiralRazor, on 07 February 2013 - 09:53 AM, said:

I would suggest you practice on how to cope quickly. If you think they are OP, you need to learn to play better.

And that is EXACTLY the type of response from the MW4 community when it first started. Exactly.

It's was a l2p issue then just as it is now. How did that work out for MW4? Madcat II's everywhere.

[NRP]

I've only seen this twice. One 3D went down under a barrage of LRM fire. The other ran into my Pretty Baby close range. Didn't end well for either of them.

But if this is the new FOTM I'll be sure to keep my eyes open for them. Thanks for the heads up.

[Greyfyl]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 07 February 2013 - 11:07 AM, said:

I think I ran into a group of Goons doing this while I was trying to earn exp on my new Cata IX.

It is seriously brutally effective against PUGs. I forsee a lot of threads about this, because most of the maps are perfectly set up for it's use.

I don't think it's impossible to overcome, but it will definitely require coordination.

I think this is one thing that those who are saying this is not an issue are overlooking (and no I'm not saying it's an issue yet either - just has potential). What can be overcome by competent 4mans and 8mans is a completely different story in the pug world.

Edited by Greyfyl, 07 February 2013 - 03:39 PM.

[Scrawny Cowboy]

A smart splat-cat pilot can make quick work of these. Heck my Dragon smeared one last night in Frozen City. Sooo easy to return what they serve too. The only play style that would suffer from this are hardcore brawlers, but why would they be leaving themselves open to snipe shots anyways.

[Vapor Trail]

Here's the thing:

If we're seeing these out of the Cataphract... what happens when the Highlander comes in? Two PPCs and a Gauss is a trivial loadout for the Highlander, It'll probably be able to max its heat sinks and JJs.

Better get the tactics ready, the Highlander is going to be a bit tougher nut to crack when it's doing this.

[CheebaMech]

I think the bad rap "poptarting" has came from the physics of MW4, it was actually easier to aim while in the air with JJs then on the ground. I don't think we have the same aiming ability issue here. Of course I drove the Mkll, didn't everyone?

[von Pilsner]

CheebaMech, on 07 February 2013 - 12:09 PM, said:

I think the bad rap "poptarting" has came from the physics of MW4, it was actually easier to aim while in the air with JJs then on the ground. I don't think we have the same aiming ability issue here. Of course I drove the Mkll, didn't everyone?

No, in MW4 you would use 3pv mode to look over the hill, take (perfect) aim, then jump and fire.
If you did it right they will not have the chance to shoot back.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Greyfyl, on 07 February 2013 - 11:54 AM, said:

I think this is one thing that those who are saying this is not an issue are overlooking (and no I'm not saying it's an issue yet either - just has potential). What can be overcome by competent 4mans and 8mans is a completely different story in the pug world.

I look at most everything from a player retention stand point. Hardcores and team players have the most incentive to stay. They have friends, teammates; they tend to be better players, having good KDR and W/L ratios. Most of them are also fans of the Mechwarrior IP.

So whether they like or dislike poptarting is not going to matter. They will stay and adjust either by doing it as well or adopting the tactics to beat it.

My problem is as always, with new players and solo players. And this is one of those builds that takes advantage of the things are they are lacking most often.

And these are also the players who have the least incentive to stick around. New players probably aren't brought in by the IP at this point, and solo players...while they enjoy the game, it doesn't offer a lot of solo incentives at this point.

CheebaMech, on 07 February 2013 - 12:09 PM, said:

I think the bad rap "poptarting" has came from the physics of MW4, it was actually easier to aim while in the air with JJs then on the ground. I don't think we have the same aiming ability issue here. Of course I drove the Mkll, didn't everyone?

von Pilsner, on 07 February 2013 - 12:12 PM, said:

No, in MW4 you would use 3pv mode to look over the hill, take (perfect) aim, then jump and fire.
If you did it right they will not have the chance to shoot back.

I am not at all saying this is as easy, or even easy at all. But the guys who did it to me last night cored my Cataphract pretty damn quickly. And had amazing accuracy.

[Jaguar Prime]

lol, I noticed this last night. It's funny because I was jump sniping in a 3D and a Catapult C1 for awhile now. Long before the changes in JJ. I guess now that it's easier, everyone will be doing it.

[DrSecretStache]

i guess I'm guilty of this build, although I got the 3D during the sale, not now. It's just too darn fun

2 PPC, 2 MPL, 17 DHS Std 300 engine. You basically never overheat.

It's easy to use this build for other methods, though. You can easily get on top of buildings for sniping, and you have enough maneuverability that you can take potshots and hide. Great against LRM boats.

Call me a coward. Or whatever it would be. I'm having way too much fun in this mech

[von Pilsner]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 07 February 2013 - 12:15 PM, said:

I am not at all saying this is as easy, or even easy at all. But the guys who did it to me last night cored my Cataphract pretty damn quickly. And had amazing accuracy.

I just meant in MW4 it was a tad easier to pop-tart with the 3pv view.

It is easy to aim in the air, but I pilot a Jenner frequently so I like being accurate when I am in the air.

[Mr Mantis]

Too bad you cant put jets on the k2

Poptart cats

[Ghogiel]

Jaguar Prime, on 07 February 2013 - 12:16 PM, said:

lol, I noticed this last night. It's funny because I was jump sniping in a 3D and a Catapult C1 for awhile now. Long before the changes in JJ. I guess now that it's easier, everyone will be doing it.

I dug my 3D back out for 2 reasons.... PPC buff. JJ trajectory buff (juice nerf hasn't made them crap)

Edited by Ghogiel, 07 February 2013 - 12:33 PM.

[GODzillaGSPB]

I use cover as often as I can. And I use the thermal vision to spot enemies who stick their neck out.

What the TS described is practically the definition of "sticking ones head out", so I'd say...shoot on them the moment you see 'em. It's even better than normal, because their jumpjets will keep them afloat longer than it usually takes for an enemy mech to walk back in cover.

I really don't see the problem. If it's exploited in a way that all four of a team jet into the air and simultanously shoot on one enemy...yes, I can see how that is a problem. But then again this kind of problem isn't exactly new. What about those teams who run 3 splatcats together with an ECM Cicada? Tactics like that are designed to wreak havok.

[JokerVictor]

GODzillaGSPB, on 07 February 2013 - 12:33 PM, said:

I use cover as often as I can. And I use the thermal vision to spot enemies who stick their neck out.

What the TS described is practically the definition of "sticking ones head out", so I'd say...shoot on them the moment you see 'em. It's even better than normal, because their jumpjets will keep them afloat longer than it usually takes for an enemy mech to walk back in cover.

I really don't see the problem. If it's exploited in a way that all four of a team jet into the air and simultanously shoot on one enemy...yes, I can see how that is a problem. But then again this kind of problem isn't exactly new. What about those teams who run 3 splatcats together with an ECM Cicada? Tactics like that are designed to wreak havok.

That's basically what these guys were doing to us. It's really more about surprise than anything else, I realize. If you can see this tactic coming, you're in good shape for a counter. You get caught like us, and you're basically screwed.

Also, this topic has gone through 3 pages without turning into a flame war. Holy crap... the MWO forums can be civil? Who knew!?

[Havyek]

von Pilsner, on 07 February 2013 - 12:12 PM, said:

No, in MW4 you would use 3pv mode to look over the hill, take (perfect) aim, then jump and fire.
If you did it right they will not have the chance to shoot back.

Bingo.

The poptarting "problem" was the same "problem" as hillhumping: 3rd Person View. You could see the enemy and take aim before ever committing yourself, therefor you could have the shot lined up, get in a position to take it, then get back into cover before the target had enough to realize they were hit, let alone where the shot came from.

[Bilbo]

JokerVictor, on 07 February 2013 - 12:50 PM, said:

.....
Also, this topic has gone through 3 pages without turning into a flame war. Holy crap... the MWO forums can be civil? Who knew!?

Knock on wood. It can only get worse from here.

Edited by Bilbo, 07 February 2013 - 12:52 PM.