343 replies to this topic

[Kinney]

Easiest way to get around poptarts is keeping behind cover and letting the more mobile members of the team harass them so that the brawlers can get into position. If you're pugging....well, I am sorry. It is kind of a pugstomping setup.

[Ghogiel]

Kinney, on 07 February 2013 - 01:03 PM, said:

It is kind of a pugstomping setup.

nearly everything is a pugstomping setup.

[Little Nemo]

This isn't MW4, mechs are slower and I don't see this being a pop-fest again. But GL to the teams that try to pop on us.
)

[chiXnhawk]

Skinny Pete, on 07 February 2013 - 01:18 PM, said:

This isn't MW4, mechs are slower and I don't see this being a pop-fest again. But GL to the teams that try to pop on us.
)

I humbly accept your challenge,

[MagicHamsta]

MaddMaxx, on 07 February 2013 - 10:20 AM, said:

P.S. Agreed, If the Pop Tarts do become prevalent, it will also spell my demise and I won't wait as long getting out this time, as I did, stupidly, the last...

You'll be back.
('-')

[Zeh]

Taemien, on 07 February 2013 - 10:39 AM, said:

Poptarting was an interesting tactic in MWLL. I say interesting because like any other tactic, it can be countered. Typically what was done was getting a Raven or other Narc capable mech behind them, narc and watch the missiles destroy them behind their cover.

Narcs work a little differently in MWO and probably aren't needed. Get an ECM mech behind them. Don't even have the ECM mech fire at them, just close enough to target them (so they aren't detected by the poptarters). And have the LRMs come down.

Um, this was resolved in MWLL by adding massive shake during JJetting.. It wasn't solved by strategy. The only way you could poptart after they fixed it was on the float down.. which makes sense IMO. A 70 ton mech jetting up into the sky is not going to be smooth as silk.

[Green Mamba]

Wait till the BLACK KNIGHT gets Here...LOL , talk about a Flash back

[Little Nemo]

chiXnhawk, on 07 February 2013 - 01:25 PM, said:

I humbly accept your challenge,

Messaged you.

[80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie]

Green Mamba, on 07 February 2013 - 01:31 PM, said:

Wait till the BLACK KNIGHT gets Here...LOL , talk about a Flash back

The Black Knight in MW4 was a complete redesign of the Black Knight in Battletech. Its neither an omnimech nor has Jump Jets.

[New Breed]

It's going to be a big issue when the highlander shows up

[Splitpin]

Adding a whole new dimension (the third) yaaaah excellent. Personally I hate AC20 and SRM6 Catapults, but I want them in the game. I won't threaten to leave because of them. I like variety and options and viable JJs adds a lot to the game.
Anything, anything that gets us beyond the noob rush brawl being the tactic of choice in this game is a thoughly good thing.

[TB Freelancer]

Greyfyl, on 07 February 2013 - 11:50 AM, said:

And that is EXACTLY the type of response from the MW4 community when it first started. Exactly.

It's was a l2p issue then just as it is now. How did that work out for MW4? Madcat II's everywhere.

Big difference between then and now. Jump jet differences aside, what made poptarts all the rage was that the heat scale was completely broken up until the very last official patch which effectively allowed guys to ignore heat and continually override, tap the coolant and fire full alphas all day long....that just isn't possible in this game....

...as far as Cataphracts being used as poptarts goes. They have to jump so high to avoid turfing their alphas and fully expose themselves, that they are pretty easy, predictable targets to take out.

No need to get hysterical over the mere mention of someone doing OK with it against a bunch of pugs.

[Rhent]

JokerVictor, on 07 February 2013 - 09:11 AM, said:

So in one fell swoop, we now have a new terror on the battlefield. With jump jets not sucking anymore, and PPC's finally being viable, I've seen a couple teams taking advantage and building a major powerhouse CTF-3D build. (you know who you are)

This is my best guess of it: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...914a66e722b3e00

Obviously, there's going to be some variance between engine/armor/# of JJ's and the like but this is the basic idea. Point to note, I wasn't able to make what I would consider a viable build out of this loadout without an XL.

Now, to the point: in the hands of a skilled pilot, this thing is an absolute terror. Particularly if it's used by several skilled pilots. These things sitting on a ridgeline, poptarting with the JJ's, are damn near unapproachable. You may be able to close up front, but you'll likely take too much damage on the approach to win the fight up-close. Me and and my group went up against 2 teams using this in the past couple days (faced one of them twice), and we lost all three matches. Comes down to us being tactically unprepared for the most part, and that's the point of this thread. How do you beat a team of poptart snipers, tactically?

I have some suggestions, but beating a good crew running this is A LOT easier said than done. We got caught flatfooted everytime we faced this... either caught in the open, or in a poor position that we couldn't do any kind of maneuvering without them seeing it. And that, I think, is going to be the key here. Your team is going to have do something creative to knock them off their game, going shot for shot (unless you're running the same loadouts) is going to get you killed. I didn't realize they were likely all running XL's at the time, so I guess keep that in mind. I'm absolutely open to suggestions from anyone who's managed to beat them.

How I've dealt with them:
-Winter Map:
1st) Approach Path (you get there without letting them see you)

• Tunnel: Highest Risk to be ambushed but fastest path.
  
• East Trench: Lowest Risk of ambush but slowest path

2nd) Fight Plan:
Assuming you got there undetected and brought at least 2 other "friends" with you, Do the following:

• Fight at 40M or closer. You effectively remove their PPC's from play and they can only hit you with their Gauss Rifles, effectively stripping them of their ammo.
  
• Target their right torso exclusively. The 3D has 2 ballistic slots RA and RT. Remove the Right Torso and you remove the 3D's only close range weapon. Maintain the 40M or closer fight range and you have a mech that can no longer dish out damage and is dead.

I run a max speed jumper Cat C4 4 SRM6 + 2 ML or a fast speed jumper Cat A1 5 SRM6 mech, and if I've been able to use these tactics very well 1 on 1. Hell I've taken on 3 v 1, and by keeping the 3D between me and his friend I was able to kill him before getting ripped by his friends.

[Taemien]

Zeh, on 07 February 2013 - 01:30 PM, said:

Um, this was resolved in MWLL by adding massive shake during JJetting.. It wasn't solved by strategy. The only way you could poptart after they fixed it was on the float down.. which makes sense IMO. A 70 ton mech jetting up into the sky is not going to be smooth as silk.

Shake didn't stop it at all, only made it slightly harder to hit on the way up, not at the apex or the descent. By the way, the reticle didn't shake much, so if you had a target lined up, you were gonna hit.

Strategy works, it always does, if someone is willing to break off the zerg and do something, in either game. But this community, like MWLL's will whine as that's the thing they know best and like their gimped zerging strat, it isn't very effective. But it is all they know.

[Greyfyl]

As some of you have pointed out - there are differences between MW4 and MWO that should in theory make this tactic less viable. Third person view being the biggest difference IMO.

What I do know is that when pop-tarting first came into being in MW4 everyone wrote it off as FOTM and L2P issues, yet a year or more later when I finally couldn't stand it anymore and quit playing, most games within a minute of starting had devolved into pop-tart wars. What may have happened after I stopped playing, I honestly don't know, but I quit after all the expansions and mech packs were out, so I doubt if there were any huge changes.

Taemien, on 07 February 2013 - 03:25 PM, said:

Shake didn't stop it at all, only made it slightly harder to hit on the way up, not at the apex or the descent. By the way, the reticle didn't shake much, so if you had a target lined up, you were gonna hit.

Strategy works, it always does, if someone is willing to break off the zerg and do something, in either game. But this community, like MWLL's will whine as that's the thing they know best and like their gimped zerging strat, it isn't very effective. But it is all they know.

Holy Mr. High and Mighty! If I pay you, will you teach me how to be as good at MW games as you obviously think you are?

Edited by Greyfyl, 07 February 2013 - 03:50 PM.

[Mongoose Trueborn]

It must have been those evil DV8 guys. I heard they rolled every 8 man they played over the last few days.

[Jyi]

I think I'll report Mongoose for poptarting! Such a poopyhead!

[Rippthrough]

Mongoose Trueborn, on 07 February 2013 - 04:28 PM, said:

It must have been those evil DV8 guys. I heard they rolled every 8 man they played over the last few days.

They tuk our jerbs!

[Wispsy]

Jumpjets are very nice

[Protection]

JokerVictor, on 07 February 2013 - 09:11 AM, said:

This is my best guess of it: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...914a66e722b3e00

You guys run such boring designs. And no wonder they are getting plucked out of the air with those fragile XL engines.

Try out something like this:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...438b725fc50fa92