17 replies to this topic

[MasterGoa]

Just tried a 4 ER PPC and a 4 PPC K2 build
and the PPC build damage goes sharply to zero as you get close...

I am not sure what was the mechanics in BT, but this seems like
an aberration as an energy weapon should be it's most
powerful exiting the barrel, or lens.

Discuss.

[Gigastrike]

The reason is because the PPC has a bit of an emp effect, so it automatically limits itself if the target is close enough that the emp burst would damage your electronic systems. Not sure what makes the ER PPC so special.

[MadTulip]

- its as in tt.
- it is one more property to differentiate weapons.

[IcemanOmikron]

Pulled this straight from mwowiki.org and it confirms Gigastrike's answer:

Since the PPC has an EMP-like effect, a limiter engages at ranges below 90m to protect the firer from the side effects of the weapon. From a range of 90 meters to 0 meters, damage will drop off linearly from 10 points of damage to 0.

It's my understanding that the ERPPC removes the limiter in order to get the greater range and therefore removes the minimum range as well.

[Jonathan Paine]

Quoted from the Sarna wiki:
"The Particle Projector Cannon (or PPC) is a unique energy weapon. PPCs fire a concentrated stream of protons or ions at a target, causing damage through both thermal and kinetic energy.^[3] As such, despite being an energy weapon, it produces recoil. The lethality of the weapon rivals that of a higher-caliber autocannon; just three shots from a PPC will vaporize two tons of standard military-grade armor.^[4] Targets hit by multiple, simultaneous PPCs can also suffer electrical side-effects, such as overloaded computer systems or targeting sensors.^[5] The ion beam also extends to much farther ranges than autocannon fire, though PPCs generate large amounts of waste heat.
PPCs are equipped with a Field Inhibitor to prevent feedback which could damage the firing unit's electronic systems.^[6] This inhibitor degrades the performance of the weapon at close ranges of less than 90 meters. Particularly daring warriors have been known to disengage the inhibitor and risk damage to their own machine when a target is at close range."

There is no mention of an EMP effect for the ER PPC - hopefully the developers will take advantage of this and limit EMP to the PPC only.

From Sarna again:
"First introduced in 2760 by the Terran Hegemony, the Extended-Range Particle Projector Cannon, or ER PPC for short, has a greatly increased range than that of a standard PPC. Capable of causing extreme damage at long range, it unfortunately generates a tremendous amount of heat, and so can be difficult to use effectively. The ER PPC is also noticable for having no minimal range.
After becoming lostech during the Succession Wars, the ER PPC was first reintroduced to the Inner Sphere in 3037 by the Draconis Combine. By this point the Clans had greatly refined the weapon, with slight reductions in size and weight, but most notably boosting its damage by fifty percent, making it capable of shaving off almost a ton of armor in a single hit. Despite the best efforts of the Great Houses, none have been able to successfully replicate this increase, though their efforts have resulted in the Heavy PPC which matches the damage potential (and heat) of the Clan weapon and has also lead to devices such as the PPC Capacitor that can emulate the increase to a degree."

Edited for formatting clarity

Edited by Jonathan Paine, 07 February 2013 - 12:04 PM.

[MasterGoa]

Thanks for the input guys, the blowback EMP effect makes sense.

I will stick to LPL

[Harotak]

The real question is why they put a min range mechanic in for the PPC but not for the Gauss or AC2.

[Loc Nar]

Because reasons.

[MasterGoa]

Because it's a bullet and as soon as it exits the barrel it is fully capable of causing damage?

[eaglemaster42]

The "preventing damage to own electronics" explanation works for me. I personally kind of like the min. range on ppc since it encourages it's use as a sniper weapon (sort of wish they would have done something like that for the gauss too instead of the whole explosion business). No idea why they don't have it on the ER PPC though, maybe they forgot? The min range took a little while to get used to on my 3x ppc awesome, then i started hanging back and sniping more and put a bunch of srms for when people get too close

[Deathz Jester]

Well currently, since closed beta, the PPCs haven't had any of their 'EMP' like effects and have just been an over-bloated, bad large laser, with more heat.


So really the 90meter minimum range was immensely stupid to implement without the 'EMP' effect.

Edited by Iron Harlequin, 07 February 2013 - 10:52 PM.

[Blackavar]

Simplest explanation is the table-top rules angle, as MadTulip said. PGI started as close to the TT rules as they could, and in TT the standard PPC has a minimum range - and yes, it was due to an EMP blowback effect being managed by an inhibitor according to canon.

I'm fairly sure I remember - this is a while back now, though - that the same tech that meant the ERPPC had much greater range also stabilized the beam such that it didn't affect the firing mech. It's entirely possible, because most of the science in this game is made up, that the stabilized beam removes the blowback EMP but doesn't stop a massively powerful blast of charged particles impacting another mech from screwing it's electronics. The original PPC without an inhibitor kinda hit the firing mech with the EMP burst but not the impact/heat damage..?

Why on earth do people take the fictional weapon capabilities so seriously, anyway? Jeez.

[zinetwin]

Because if they didn't stick to the lore and the limitations that were very specifically listed in the original material then it would confuse the hell out of anyone who knows anything about it. It would also cause the game to loose it's charm. The reason the fan following is so serious is because of their, mostly, faithful interpretation of everything that makes this franchise so great. If they focused on solely creating a game with robots, it wouldn't have the uniqueness it currently has and will have and would likely end up more like a shogo game. This particular question is likely why they have been waiting so long and working on the EMP effect for the ppc's. It's an integral part of the weapon and without it's just a really hot laser with a minimum range.
As for how the weapon works, of course it's fiction, but so was star trek's tractor beam, until they made one!
http://www.foxnews.c...-by-scientists/
We need to get the concepts right first, then figure out how to make them later.

[CG Oglethorpe Kerensky]

MasterGoa, on 07 February 2013 - 01:59 PM, said:

Because it's a bullet and as soon as it exits the barrel it is fully capable of causing damage?

Let me clarify for you...

In TT these weapons had min range penalties
AC/2
AC/5
Gauss Rifle
PPC
Ultra AC/5

In addition these clan weapons have Min ranges too

LB-2X AC
LB-5X AC
Ultra AC/2


All of these had fluff text explaining why they had minimum ranges. But when PGI implemented these weapons the only one to retain the minimum range was the PPC. So the question is why was the PPC singled out here as the only one to get this treatment?

[zinetwin]

That's a good point.
I could see ACs having a minimum range, albeit a small one. Or possibly a splashback damage. So if you get right in the face of your opponent and fire, you may take a small percentage of damage from the explosion. But then it would need to also apply to missles and anything that's not a laser. Gauss however, it's not an explosive ballistic, and it has all it's energy directly out of the barrel so I couldn't see a minimum range there.
The LBs though, are more of a blunderbus shotgun and may have splashback if fired point blank but otherwise should be fine. The PPC probably retained it's minimum range to keep it balanced with other long range weapons. It's like a guass with infinite shots, faster projectile, coming EMP effect. It's only downside is heat and minimum range. One of which can be solved with the erppc.

[MasterGoa]

Hey guys, I have a few tests and confirmed that ER PPC as about a 20M minimum
range where it cuts off completely...

I used a K2 with two PPC and two ER PPC and the PPC min range
is evident, however, at very close range, the ER PPC would not make
any damage as well...

It would not make the splash animation and the enemy
would damage indicator would not light up, neither would
the enemy turn hot red.

This was on a few enemies I was shooting in the back, immobile
and shooting someone else.

I did have in incident where I legged a 3L from afar but then moved in
and shoot him point blank and it barely scratched him.

So yeah,,,

Edited by MasterGoa, 09 February 2013 - 08:54 AM.

[Mudhawk]

Newsflash, ER-PPC killed a Jenner that wanted to hide under my Cat-K2. He was so close that I only saw his arms and that hump with the Missile-Launcher. My two Torso mounted ER-PPCs were practically wedged into his Cockpit.
I only had to pull the Trigger.
And I did.
The Jenner Pilot sure would have appriciated any kind of minimal range restrictions on those guns.
But I'm happy to report that there is none.
Now about that Raven, that one I believe any day. I've shot at so many of those powered down and one-legged Pidgeons only to miss them even at Point Blank.
Doesn't matter what weapon I use for Pew-Pew too.
I don't know where those chickens hide their hitboxes but it sure ain't anywhere near their visible bodys.

[MasterGoa]

Well, that would be a good theory as also...