33 replies to this topic

[Mr Mantis]

Been in the spider since netcode patch, and it is not my favorite mech. I dislike the part where i can only equip up to 3 lasers, not giving me enough punch with just 3 med lasers i find myself puting in a large. I would much rather put in 4 med lasers than 1 large laser but 3 med lasers just seems too few. The only saving grace it has are its jumpjets.

Now if we look to the distant future at the flea with its 5 energy hardpoints, i can't wait till it hits the shelves. Unless weapon balance changes, the med laser is still the most effeciant laser and to fit 5 on a little fast flea... I don't need jumpjets if we can go that fast, also very interested in the MASC. If it has ecm masc and 5 laser harpoints i think it will be a powerfull mech.
(on the downside the flea is made from cardbord and popsicle sticks)

[IIIuminaughty]

flea nuff said

[Khobai]

Flea should win against a Spider most of the time given that the best variant of the Flea actually has more than 2 weapon hardpoints.

[p00k]

i can't wait to rake fleas with some large lasers, and watch them do their best '81 delorean impression



incidentally, as 88mph = 141.6kph, maybe that's why they put a speed cap of 140kph in the game. otherwise mechs would be going back in time *ahem*

Edited by p00k, 07 February 2013 - 05:41 PM.

[MacKoga]

Fleas only weigh in at 20 tons to the Spiders' 30T. Sure, they can get away with a lighter engine for a given speed, but then they don't get as many engine heat sinks, and loose heat to that. By the time you factor in the armor, heat sinks, structural, etc, there's not a lot of weight / cooling /etc remaining for weapons. So I would not be surprised if most builds either have weak weapons, or have modest weapons but only some can be used at a time due to heat issues.

I'm looking forward to taking a Flea for a spin. That said, my 5V goes 151.5kph, has 12 JJ's and 2mplas, never overheats, and can fly from rooftop to rooftop. It's pretty fun.

[Vassago Rain]

I'm pretty sure fleas will be far superior to spiders.
Unless they give spiders some more hardpoints, that is.

[Trauglodyte]

The Spider's undoing is all centered around the silly engine calculation that they allow in this game. If PGI had stuck with TT engines with a slight increase, say +3 sizes in addition, the Spider would be better off and have a niche. As it stands, its just fodder that can't really do anything.

[MacKoga]

Vassago Rain, on 07 February 2013 - 05:47 PM, said:

I'm pretty sure fleas will be far superior to spiders.
Unless they give spiders some more hardpoints, that is.

It's not always even just about the hardpoint limitation -- it's about where they are. The 5V's got it the worst, with its 2 weapons sharing the 2 open slots in the center torso. If they put them in the left + right, then there'd be an option for maybe putting in something with more punch.

I love even just one more hardpoint added to the spider series. The K might be ok as is, depending on how MG tweaks work out.

[Khobai]

Quote

I'm pretty sure fleas will be far superior to spiders.
Unless they give spiders some more hardpoints, that is.

The base variant of the Flea has 5 energy hardpoints. Thats more than ANY variant of the Spider. If MASC is implemented the Flea will also be significantly faster.

Quote

I love even just one more hardpoint added to the spider series. The K might be ok as is, depending on how MG tweaks work out.

The problem with the Spider goes beyond the lack of hardpoints. Its the hardpoint locations as well. The Spider is designed to be a jumpjet harasser. Yet because its energy weapons are torso mounted they can't shoot down when its jumping!!! The Spider not only needs more hardpoints but it needs hardpoints relocated to its arms. And jumpjets need a huge buff because theyre awful right now.

Edited by Khobai, 07 February 2013 - 05:56 PM.

[zraven7]

Fleas are awesome lull dumpsters with guns on a pair of legs.

Spiders look like 3 story tall child molesters.

Point goes to the Flea.

[QuantumButler]

Both Fleas and Spiders will continue to be food for lagchickens and metal babbys.

[DrxAbstract]

Khobai, on 07 February 2013 - 05:54 PM, said:

The base variant of the Flea has 5 energy hardpoints. Thats more than ANY variant of the Spider. If MASC is implemented the Flea will also be significantly faster.

Jumpjets create a 3 Dimensional engagement, lending to unpredictable maneuvering and avoidance. No jumpjets means predictable path, and easier to hit. Also, if 6 Med Lasers on a 35 ton mech (Jenner F) is not viable due to heat, how would 5 on a mech weighing 10 tons less suddenly make the setup worthwhile?

[QuantumButler]

DrxAbstract, on 07 February 2013 - 06:01 PM, said:

Jumpjets create a 3 Dimensional engagement, lending to unpredictable maneuvering and avoidance. No jumpjets means predictable path, and easier to hit. Also, if 6 Med Lasers on a 35 ton mech (Jenner F) is not viable due to heat, how would 5 on a mech weighing 10 tons less suddenly make the setup worthwhile?

By taking 5 sllas instead, meds will be too damn hot.

[IceCase88]

This is where I say... Research the mech's role before you purchase. Plenty of reference material to find on each mech (i.e. Sarna.net, etc.). Each mech is designed for a role and it is really difficult to make a mech fit a different style.

[General Taskeen]

People have been getting to used to Light Mech brawling. Its better to practice ambush, juking, and hit/run. A Spider, even it its default config (minus the variants with useless MG's and flamers) is decent for shoot and scoot tactics. The trick is simply to let the enemy focus on your team (your meat shields) and not be the object of attention.

[QuantumButler]

IceCase88, on 07 February 2013 - 06:05 PM, said:

This is where I say... Research the mech's role before you purchase. Plenty of reference material to find on each mech (i.e. Sarna.net, etc.). Each mech is designed for a role and it is really difficult to make a mech fit a different style.

Yeah, the catapult being a pure support mech, it's really hard to make it into an amazing brawler in MWO.

Wait no it's not, I'm sorry, but "role warfare" doesn't really exist in MWO, unless you consider either being fast or tanky burst damage or DPS as "role warfare"

[DrxAbstract]

QuantumButler, on 07 February 2013 - 06:02 PM, said:

By taking 5 sllas instead, meds will be too damn hot.

Per shot:
5 Slas = 15dmg, 10 heat, 90m, 2.5t
3 Mlas = 15dmg, 12 heat, 270m, 3t

Continuous Fire:
5 Slas = 5dps, 3.35hps
3 Mlas = 3.75dps, 3hps

Comparatively, you're right in that more energy slots with Slas is better DPS (Not damage per hit), however at the cost of range (susceptible to SRM/SSRMs) and jumpjets, do you still consider it to be superior?

[QuantumButler]

DrxAbstract, on 07 February 2013 - 06:17 PM, said:

Per shot:
5 Slas = 15dmg, 10 heat, 90m, 2.5t
3 Mlas = 15dmg, 12 heat, 270m, 3t

Continuous Fire:
5 Slas = 5dps, 3.35hps
3 Mlas = 3.75dps, 3hps

Comparatively, you're right in that more energy slots with Slas is better DPS (Not damage per hit), however at the cost of range (susceptible to SRM/SSRMs) and jumpjets, do you still consider it to be superior?

Oh I never considered the Flea to be superior at all, i'm just saying the crazy person who wants to take 5 meds is insane.

The Flea is going to be even more DOA than the Spider was, but at least we'll be able to put MASC onto real mechs with real guns.

[MacKoga]

General Taskeen, on 07 February 2013 - 06:06 PM, said:

The trick is simply to let the enemy focus on your team (your meat shields) and not be the object of attention.

Sure, sometimes. But other times it's more effective to attack an enemy formation from an unexpected direction and get as much attention as possible before getting to safety, so that they're distracted when all your team's bigger mechs come out to fight.


Unfortunately the game gives you 0 points for accomplishing this.

EDIT: This is just like why I sometimes take AMS: often to provide cover for allies, not for myself. I don't get points for this, but it does improve our win probability (back when LRMs were quite popular).

Edited by MacKoga, 07 February 2013 - 06:33 PM.

[Khobai]

Quote

Jumpjets create a 3 Dimensional engagement, lending to unpredictable maneuvering and avoidance. No jumpjets means predictable path, and easier to hit.

Except jumpjet trajectories are 100% predictable since you cant change direction in midair. Additionally the moment you land your forward momentum is disrupted by hitting the ground which makes you an easy target until you can accelerate again. Jumpjets make you easier to kill most of the time.