83 replies to this topic

[Joe Mallad]

the problem with the Catapult's head hit box is that all of its cockpit glass is considered a head kill box so if you hit glass, its a given that you are hitting it in the head. All other mech have their hit boxes taken down to one eye and or one piece of glass on the cockpit. The Cataphract for example has its head hit box as the center piece of glass on the cockpit. You hit any other piece of glass and its counted as a center torso hit. (me and a few other tested it) The Catapult's head hit box is massive and really should not be that big. I understand why they did it but its not discouraging anyone from still getting right up in your face with a Catapult.

[Mounty]

Okay, I have to jump into this one. First I don't think the cockpit hit box should be changed, it's part of the character of the mech. However the so called advantages are a joke. The only reason the XL engine is so survivable in this mech is that everyone is concentrating on your cockpit...and once the cockpit goes your engine doesn't matter much. Torso twist, great for brawlers not so special for a sniper and most of you have already pointed out Cats aren't meant to be brawlers.

The only real advantage the Cat has (in my opinion) is the K2's high mounted arms.

Since their looking at adding quirks to the different varients I think they should give mech attributes that push them towards their intended roles. Any advantage should balance the drawbacks. The K2 for example, it's meant to be a sniper, it should have improved optics. Bigger cockpit = better veiw.

For the record during closed beta I played a Cat 90% of the time, now I play Stalkers, if I want to snipe I use an Atlas.

Ok, thats my two cents, flame away.

[Livewyr]

RG Notch, on 09 February 2013 - 04:42 PM, said:

So you adapt by asking for the devs to fix something that is getting you killed ? Interesting but please cry more it's fun watching a guy with a snarky signature do exactly what he's snarking about,

Because case you missed the rest of the conversation you decided to blindly chime in on; I don't get headshotted in the cat much- I don't brawl in a cat, and I'm not bad in them.

What I'm referring to is balance, it's the only mech that retains the Gynormo™ cockpit. (Awesomes used to have a big one too, and Cataphracts for about a day, and Atlases back in early testing.

[Deamhan]

I use the Cat C1 (mini Mad Cat or similar variant) pretty much exclusively. Yes I brawl with it. No I don't get killed by a head shot all that often. The Cat doesn't need a reduction to the head's hitbox, the game needs something along the lines of punkbuster. Not saying that every head shot is a hack but I find it a bit hard to swallow that people got more "skilled" at hitting the head at the same time that a spot light was shown down on the availability of certain hacks. In fact, I've noticed that how often I died by head shot doubled shortly after someone linked a forum post to an aimbot. Imagine that. So I fully expect to see my deaths by head shot be cut in half if PGI effectively comes out with a means to stop it.

[Astrolux]

Livewyr, on 09 February 2013 - 05:09 PM, said:

Because case you missed the rest of the conversation you decided to blindly chime in on; I don't get headshotted in the cat much- I don't brawl in a cat, and I'm not bad in them.

What I'm referring to is balance, it's the only mech that retains the Gynormo™ cockpit. (Awesomes used to have a big one too, and Cataphracts for about a day, and Atlases back in early testing.

To call for any sort of buff for the Catapult is absurd. Cockpit is vulnerable when standing still and not so much while moving. The size of it is not the reason it is getting hit so much but the placement of it. Aim for the pointed tip of the Catapult and you might get a head shot and might not. Stop standing still in your PPC sniper and the enemy will have a hell of a time trying to cockpit you.

Calling for a buff because something has a weakness is not the proper way to balance a game. There are tons of people in this thread disagreeing with you but you seem to write off their opinion as quickly as they wrote off yours. But what can you expect from someone who thinks Catapults need a buff.

[Craftyman]

Use your absurd torso twist to avoid being cockpitted. The cockpit is literally the cat's only tangible downside AND it can be mitigated easily.

Quote

there are tons of people in this thread disagreeing with you but you seem to write off their opinion as quickly as they wrote off yours. But what can you expect from someone who thinks Catapults need a buff.

And remember kids, forums are for discussion not opinion validation, which is what the OP is really looking for, someone who shares his bias.

[Lykaon]

Chavette, on 09 February 2013 - 05:58 AM, said:

Then you have no reason to be so close to get headshotted that easily.

1) You do not need to be the one that gets to close.I am sure the enemy will do this for you.

2) I have had Catapults shot out from under me at very long ranges because of the combination of head hitbox size and it's far frontal location.Keeping distance from incomming fire does not reduce the size of the head target area one bit.It's the same size if it's 10m away or 900m away.

3) If the Catapult is an exclusivly long range support chassis than why was the Awesome given a smaller head hitbox? The Awesome uses the same long range weapons as the Catapults LRMs and PPCs.Arguable that the Awesome is also an exclusivley ranged support mech.

4) Just for the record I would not oppose a reduction of head size to also accompany a reduction in torso twist.

Edited by Lykaon, 09 February 2013 - 07:46 PM.

[Snib]

Deamhan, on 09 February 2013 - 05:55 PM, said:

I use the Cat C1 (mini Mad Cat or similar variant) pretty much exclusively. Yes I brawl with it. No I don't get killed by a head shot all that often. The Cat doesn't need a reduction to the head's hitbox, the game needs something along the lines of punkbuster. Not saying that every head shot is a hack but I find it a bit hard to swallow that people got more "skilled" at hitting the head

Everyone and their dog driving a sniper mech these days plus much better netcode, of course you'll see more carefully aimed shots.

I just had a match where I one-shotted two cats one after the other from 400m away while they and myself were moving. No hacks required. I always go for headshots against cats because they are so trivially easy to do.

Edited by Snib, 09 February 2013 - 08:03 PM.

[Merky Merc]

Livewyr, on 09 February 2013 - 03:37 PM, said:

I would like that too.. if mech sizes were proportional.

Human sizes don't change much.. but somehow the cockpits have extreme differences in size.. (and non of them look all that spacious, except maybe the awesome)

I have to agree, the cockpits don't seem like they follow any sort of scale. But the mechs don't seem to fit in any kind of scale either

[Fiesta Mike]

I've experienced more head shot kills in my catapults than in any other mech. With that said, I still think the cockpit hit box size is fine.

With my K2, I have about 250,000 exp beyond master skill level. At an average of 500 exp earned per match (no premium time), that equates to roughly 558 matches where I've used my K2. Out of those 558 matches, I recall being headshot about 7 or 8 times.

With the catapult chassis, I've mastered the C1, C4, K2. The total number of times I've been killed by a destroyed cockpit on ALL my catapults is about 12 times. From my experience, I've learned there are generally two situations where my cat is vulnerable.

First of all, keeping my cockpit in a static position, such as in a sniper dual. Second situation, brawling where I kept my nose pointed on target while circling. Its like using a light mech, non-movement or predictable movement will cost you.

Edit: I haven't used the k2 a lot since the recent netcode patch, but still rotate through the c1 and c4

Edited by Fiesta Mike, 09 February 2013 - 09:14 PM.

[fuguzawaz]

All I play is Catapults. I think it's fine how it is. Sure I've been cockpitted a few times, but then I learned that cover is your friend. Plus, if someone is trying to snipe you, you can generally see the bullet well before it hits you. I've avoided being cockpitted just by torso twisting. No need for a buff.

[Toong]

I really don't take that much cockpit damage in my catapults, and I've always had difficulty hitting the cockpits of other catapults. A Cat's torso is so flexible a good pilot can easily protect their face. I don't think anything needs to be changed.

[Ripnfly]

The cat is fine, every mech has atleast 1 glaring weakness, while the head should be at least a bit smaller where it is now is fine its not gamebreaking I rarely eat headshots as other have said it can mount XL engines use one and move around the map and you will never get head shot unless 1/100 roll which every mech has.

[Wolfways]

Mounty, on 09 February 2013 - 05:08 PM, said:

Since their looking at adding quirks to the different varients I think they should give mech attributes that push them towards their intended roles.

+

Quote

if I want to snipe I use an Atlas.

= Contradiction.

[Zrave]

I play atlas, stalker, and catapult, say about 300 matches each. I've been headshot on the atlas once, stalker once, and catapult like 30 times, once from 800m away by quad ER PPC as I crested a hill.

The problem with the cockpit of the catapult is that it's in the center of mass and it's much larger than other mech's. Sometimes you headshot them without even trying for it.

While I'm ok with the feel of the headshot mechanic on the catapult, I think that the comparative size between other cockpits and the catapult is unbalanced.

[Gaan Cathal]

For all those saying Catapults brawling isn't canon, would you like to explain for me the TWO canon varients (one unique, one factory) that mount short ranged primary weapons?

[Seanamal]

The problem with the Cat cockpit is it's right at the same height as the primary ballistic hardpoint on an Atlas. Hence they tend to get AC/20's flying thru the cockpit. It's not a hitbox issue, It's a size relationship issue.

[Taurick]

I accidentally headshot 2 cats in one game today, from like 450m

They might need a *little* looking at

Edited by Taurich, 10 February 2013 - 02:14 AM.

[GODzillaGSPB]

Livewyr, on 09 February 2013 - 03:09 PM, said:

Yes, it does have an intended role- just like the Awesome.. who did have his head hotbox reduced.

The Awesome is an assault mech. Granted, one that is usually meant for bombardment over bigger distances, but still an assault. The Catapult is a support mech. You can use it as a brawler, but if you expect it to rule the battlefield, you get a shot through those big windows, meant to make artillery observations easier.

[Mounty]

Wolfways, on 09 February 2013 - 09:33 PM, said:

+

= Contradiction.

Well that didn't quote well.

How is what I said a contradiction???? I use an Atlas for sniping at present because there's no advantage to using a Cat, I'm suggesting that there should be more to distingush different mech designs. If you think there's a contradiction in there somewhere you might want to invest in a dictionary.