205 replies to this topic

[Malphes]

Oni Ralas, on 10 February 2013 - 07:23 AM, said:

Brilliant! Shoot the mech you say? What a novel concept!

years of research

[Escef]

Malphes, on 10 February 2013 - 07:22 AM, said:

you can core an assault from the front almost instantly with two srmcats.

I've Alpha'd Assaults in the chest twice with an SRMcat and still not dropped them. If by "almost instantly" you mean long enough for their srms to cycle back up, yeah. Two SRMcats? Two volleys each? 144 SRMs? It should drop an assault. But that assault is going to be firing back, and if you can gang up on him, his team can gang up on you. If you catch an assault by itself, isolated from the team, yes, he should be easy pickins'.

[Bounty Dogg]

Im gonna have to hold the unfavorable opinion this time, but here it is:

SRMs are fine. So is the A1.

Yes, a Splatcat can pretty much brawl anything on the map. Its brutality cannot be questioned. However, it suffers some disadvantages for this.

1. Close Range Fighter
Anyone with enough firepower from 500 meters out can seriously hamper one of these. Not easy to STAY out there, but you can hurt em a lot before they get to you.
2 Weapons for Ears
Its not extremely difficult to blow the ears off this thing. and once you do, youve taken away 50% of his damage potential. Is he still a threat? hell yes! But now, hes a wounded animal.
3. Cat Face
As long as he's Facing you, you have a good chance of shooting him in the face, or cockpitting him. A steady hand after one of his SRM strikes is all it really takes to shake him off you.
4. Glass Heart
Most splatcats are built with XL engines. Even with rearmoring up for higher CT/LT/RT values, it can still be 'cored with
regular success. If it doesnt have an XL engine, its slow enough to REALLY lay into it.
5. Wild Turkey
Most Splatcats try to remember their streakcat days when they could lock on, jj into the air out of danger, and still nail you
for 30 pts of damage to your CT.....those days are fading. Without the Streak lockon, the Splatcat has to reaim in most
situations where JJs save him. His landing is your opportunity. Also, JJs may turn him in an odd direction (unless hes a
proficient pilot) so he's facing the wrong way when trying to evade brawl damage....perfect opportunity at some light armor.
6. He's not a Streakcat
This is the most important of all. He's not a Streakcat. He cant leap 2 buildings, shine Strong White Teeth ™ at you as he Jenner turns, cartwheels over a friendly's head with a thumbs up, land behind you, kiss your girl, and STILL have a lock on. Every extreme evade he does is a fire opportunity for you at a vulnerable compartment.

I actually have quite a bit more respect for splatcat pilots than I do for streakcat pilots (I dont pilot either,and am NOT knocking Streak users, but I recognize the fact that splatcatting takes a bit more skill than streakcatting, no matter what a lot believe) and believe that SRMs are actually ok the way they are. The tradeoff of having a 60pt shotgun is the fact that that's ALL you have........the same way it is for dual AC20s, and to a lesser degree, dual Gauss (lesser degree because of Gauss's enormous range). as with all things with this game, its more about the strategy the pilot uses to take one of these down, or the communication thats used for the team to take it down, than it is about any particular build.

Edited by Bounty Dogg, 10 February 2013 - 07:34 AM.

[Ghogiel]

As someone pointed out earlier, there are a ton of ***** A1s out there. I can't count the amount of times I dropped one or two while within 200m of it, with **** like erppcs and gauss.

But it don't work with good players running several of them. fact.

Nothing a PUG team can do but die. Even other 4 mans will get nom'd

[John Norad]

Nuck Fewton, on 09 February 2013 - 10:52 PM, said:

honestly most of the problems stem from the hardpoint problems, then you put the catapault's crazy torso twist and side torso on top of that and you have big issues

A lot of these issues stem from map design and variety.
If pure close range setups were utterly useless on some maps, you'd see fewer of them.

Doesn't mean that weapon balance or the heat system don't cause problems, but not so much in this case, imho.

[Sifright]

Bounty Dogg, on 10 February 2013 - 07:30 AM, said:

Im gonna have to hold the unfavorable opinion this time, but here it is:

SRMs are fine. So is the A1.

Yes, a Splatcat can pretty much brawl anything on the map. Its brutality cannot be questioned. However, it suffers some disadvantages for this.

1. Close Range Fighter
Anyone with enough firepower from 500 meters out can seriously hamper one of these. Not easy to STAY out there, but you can hurt em a lot before they get to you.
2 Weapons for Ears
Its not extremely difficult to blow the ears off this thing. and once you do, youve taken away 50% of his damage potential. Is he still a threat? hell yes! But now, hes a wounded animal.
3. Cat Face
As long as he's Facing you, you have a good chance of shooting him in the face, or cockpitting him. A steady hand after one of his SRM strikes is all it really takes to shake him off you.
4. Glass Heart
Most splatcats are built with XL engines. Even with rearmoring up for higher CT/LT/RT values, it can still be 'cored with
regular success. If it doesnt have an XL engine, its slow enough to REALLY lay into it.
5. Wild Turkey
Most Splatcats try to remember their streakcat days when they could lock on, jj into the air out of danger, and still nail you
for 30 pts of damage to your CT.....those days are fading. Without the Streak lockon, the Splatcat has to reaim in most
situations where JJs save him. His landing is your opportunity. Also, JJs may turn him in an odd direction (unless hes a
proficient pilot) so he's facing the wrong way when trying to evade brawl damage....perfect opportunity at some light armor.
6. He's not a Streakcat
This is the most important of all. He's not a Streakcat. He cant leap 2 buildings, shine Strong White Teeth ™ at you as he Jenner turns, cartwheels over a friendly's head with a thumbs up, land behind you, kiss your girl, and STILL have a lock on. Every extreme evade he does is a fire opportunity for you at a vulnerable compartment.

I actually have quite a bit more respect for splatcat pilots than I do for streakcat pilots (I dont pilot either, but I recognize the fact that splatcatting takes a bit more skill than streakcatting, no matter what a lot believe) and believe that SRMs are actually ok the way they are. The tradeoff of having a 60pt shotgun is the fact that that's ALL you have........the same way it is for dual AC20s, and to a lesser degree, dual Gauss (lesser degree because of Gauss's enormous range). as with all things with this game, its more about the strategy the pilot uses to take one of these down, or the communication thats used for the team to take it down, than it is about any particular build.

It's not a 60pt shotgun. It's 90.

I've a splatcat build for a standard engine that fits a 280 and runs with 5 tonnes of ammo. so it's not hard to run near a cats top speed even with a normal engine and srms.

If you are seeing catapults at 500+ meters range the pilots must be terrible or you caught them on the one map where that is likely Caustic.

Every other map has enough terrain features to give them cover until they are within 120 m

[Fooooo]

Heres a mockup situation.


Team A , 2 A1's : packing all srm6's or srm4's, going 80+km/h.

vs

Team B , 2 Atlas : Pick any variant or loadout.


(for arguments sake, you can make it 8 A1's vs 8 atlas if you want.....)

Map can be whatever map you want it to be, both teams start at the normal positions.

You get to choose what team you want to be on. A or B.....

Game starts....run through the match in your head. (both teams are on comms and lets say equally skilled)


Now a few questions......

1. Which side did you choose to be on ?

2. Why ?

3. Did you win ? (probably a useless question but meh......I guess I should really ask, Who do you think would win out of the 2 teams ?)

note : there is no right or wrong answer here, just say what you think.

Edited by Fooooo, 10 February 2013 - 07:51 AM.

[Bounty Dogg]

@Sifright:
No doubt about that. My mistake on the Numbers, but the points still stand though. Even when they run in for the Face Hug, that FIRST Face hug won't kill you unless you're a lightly armored medium (which means you should REALLY consider not letting him facehug you!) which will grant you some damage opportunities if you remain calm. The second Facehug is where it REALLY starts to hurt, as you can begin to lose weapons, armor, or in some cases, parts as he tears into you. At that point though you SHOULD be doing a decent amount of damage to him. Or Be aware of dancing with him....while leading him to your team.....Or readying up your next salvo.........Or preparing to die (always a possibility with these things). Notice I said nothing about running away, as its a very rare situation that you can outrun these things (incase it comes up). However, knowing 'the lay of hte land' and where youre team is, ARE advantages that can be used as well as high to OMGWHATDIDHEHITMEWITH pinpoint damage, i find.

[Escef]

Sifright, on 10 February 2013 - 07:34 AM, said:

I've a splatcat build for a standard engine that fits a 280 and runs with 5 tonnes of ammo. so it's not hard to run near a cats top speed even with a normal engine and srms.

I'm guessing you're packing Artemis and/or a bunch of heat sinks, because I run a 305 standard with just as much ammo.

Sifright, on 10 February 2013 - 07:34 AM, said:

If you are seeing catapults at 500+ meters range the pilots must be terrible or you caught them on the one map where that is likely Caustic.

Every other map has enough terrain features to give them cover until they are within 120 m

And that's perhaps the biggest reason why SRMcats get used: the terrain favors them. If we had 2 more maps that were mostly open just about every mech would pack at least one long range weapon. SRMcats would get gunned to bits while they tried to do a mad dash into brawling range (or anger their teammates by hiding behind them).

[Will3019]

ConnorSinclair, on 09 February 2013 - 10:24 PM, said:

It's still hard to believe people use joysticks on this game

I guess some people like playing games for fun, and some people are afraid of their stats going down momentarily as they learn a new skill.

[Sifright]

Fooooo, on 10 February 2013 - 07:39 AM, said:

Heres a mockup situation.


Team A , 2 A1's : packing all srm6's or srm4's, going 80+km/h.

vs

Team B , 2 Atlas : Pick any variant or loadout.


(for arguments sake, you can make it 8 A1's vs 8 atlas if you want.....)

Map can be whatever map you want it to be, both teams start at the normal positions.

You get to choose what team you want to be on. A or B.....

Game starts....run through the match in your head. (both teams are on comms and lets say equally skilled)


Now a few questions......

1. Which side did you choose to be on ?

2. Why ?

3. Did you win ? (probably a useless question but meh......I guess I should really ask, Who do you think would win out of the 2 teams ?)

2 A1's massive damage output ability to dictate engagement zone due to speed. High manuverability so they can negate much of the ability of the atlas to focus fire.

[Escef]

Fooooo, on 10 February 2013 - 07:39 AM, said:

Heres a mockup situation.


Team A , 2 A1's : packing all srm6's or srm4's, going 80+km/h.

vs

Team B , 2 Atlas : Pick any variant or loadout.


(for arguments sake, you can make it 8 A1's vs 8 atlas if you want.....)

Map can be whatever map you want it to be, both teams start at the normal positions.

You get to choose what team you want to be on. A or B.....

Game starts....run through the match in your head. (both teams are on comms and lets say equally skilled)


Now a few questions......

1. Which side did you choose to be on ?

2. Why ?

3. Did you win ? (probably a useless question but meh......I guess I should really ask, Who do you think would win out of the 2 teams ?)

The big problem is the choice of map.

I'd choose team Atlas.

Because given the choice between fast and uninteresting and slow and somewhat interesting, well... I'll take the mech I dislike the least.

And of course my team won, because I chose the only map where we have the advantage: Caustic.

[Enig]

Flit Asuno, on 09 February 2013 - 11:31 PM, said:

You heard him folks, everyone roll A1s and spread that steak sauce liberally. Perhaps if we saturate the message will get through.

Actually that's a good point, I'm going to pick up an A1 when I get home and just boat SRM's all day for a week. Maybe their metrics will start displaying whats going on if more of us do this.

It's not called an Easycat for nothing.

[Demoned]

your doing it wrong

A1 should have

4 SRM6's
2 SRM4's
XL 315
8 tons of ammo
and 2 jumpjets
and about 16DHS
you'll never overheat

and at 80 alpha still enough to hurt sh*t bad


shot run i still here Zoidberg in my head when i do this.

[Oni Ralas]

^^ laugh every time


More variety in maps + stat wipe will resolve some of the issues. As will changes to other weps and/or cost of drops (match making)

[valkyrie]

Bounty Dogg, on 10 February 2013 - 07:30 AM, said:

Im gonna have to hold the unfavorable opinion this time, but here it is:

SRMs are fine. So is the A1.

Yes, a Splatcat can pretty much brawl anything on the map. Its brutality cannot be questioned. However, it suffers some disadvantages for this.

1. Close Range Fighter
Anyone with enough firepower from 500 meters out can seriously hamper one of these. Not easy to STAY out there, but you can hurt em a lot before they get to you.
2 Weapons for Ears
Its not extremely difficult to blow the ears off this thing. and once you do, youve taken away 50% of his damage potential. Is he still a threat? hell yes! But now, hes a wounded animal.
3. Cat Face
As long as he's Facing you, you have a good chance of shooting him in the face, or cockpitting him. A steady hand after one of his SRM strikes is all it really takes to shake him off you.
4. Glass Heart
Most splatcats are built with XL engines. Even with rearmoring up for higher CT/LT/RT values, it can still be 'cored with
regular success. If it doesnt have an XL engine, its slow enough to REALLY lay into it.
5. Wild Turkey
Most Splatcats try to remember their streakcat days when they could lock on, jj into the air out of danger, and still nail you
for 30 pts of damage to your CT.....those days are fading. Without the Streak lockon, the Splatcat has to reaim in most
situations where JJs save him. His landing is your opportunity. Also, JJs may turn him in an odd direction (unless hes a
proficient pilot) so he's facing the wrong way when trying to evade brawl damage....perfect opportunity at some light armor.
6. He's not a Streakcat
This is the most important of all. He's not a Streakcat. He cant leap 2 buildings, shine Strong White Teeth ™ at you as he Jenner turns, cartwheels over a friendly's head with a thumbs up, land behind you, kiss your girl, and STILL have a lock on. Every extreme evade he does is a fire opportunity for you at a vulnerable compartment.

I actually have quite a bit more respect for splatcat pilots than I do for streakcat pilots (I dont pilot either,and am NOT knocking Streak users, but I recognize the fact that splatcatting takes a bit more skill than streakcatting, no matter what a lot believe) and believe that SRMs are actually ok the way they are. The tradeoff of having a 60pt shotgun is the fact that that's ALL you have........the same way it is for dual AC20s, and to a lesser degree, dual Gauss (lesser degree because of Gauss's enormous range). as with all things with this game, its more about the strategy the pilot uses to take one of these down, or the communication thats used for the team to take it down, than it is about any particular build.

There's that "shoot the ears" and "shoot the cockpit" argument again. Watch this.



Notice my head AND ears gets severely damaged. I'm still running around turning fresh Centurions into scarecrows and there's not a damn thing they can do about it.

[Ghogiel]

In that poll about nerfing cats, more people think the K2 should be nerfed from using heavy ballistics than any nerf to the A1. lol.


Too many A1 pilots on this forum

[Demoned]

they can nerf A1 if they like, I'll just adapt

[Escef]

Ghogiel, on 10 February 2013 - 08:44 AM, said:

In that poll about nerfing cats, more people think the K2 should be nerfed from using heavy ballistics than any nerf to the A1. lol.


Too many A1 pilots on this forum

I find it strange you say this, as the ones arguing for nerfing the SRMcat in this thread have been the ones who have used it most. I used it, and tinkered with it, enough to unlock its module slot and have barely touched it since, I don't even like using it, and I'm the one most arguing against nerfing it.

[valkyrie]

Escef, on 10 February 2013 - 08:56 AM, said:

I find it strange you say this, as the ones arguing for nerfing the SRMcat in this thread have been the ones who have used it most. I used it, and tinkered with it, enough to unlock its module slot and have barely touched it since, I don't even like using it, and I'm the one most arguing against nerfing it.

Of course we're using it. We knew it was broken before we did it, but knew we wouldn't have a leg to stand on if people could go "JUST TRY IT, IT REQUIRES SKILL"

One A1, C4, and K2 Mastery later, I can assure you that no, it does not. Not nearly as much as other chassis, anyway.