205 replies to this topic

[Oni Ralas]

Don't nerf the chassis, enhance the penalties for running them in certain configs. I don't care that there are glass cannon builds out there - but they should actually *be* glass cannons. Right now, this config has too much survival for what it can deliver vs. it's weight class.


Random roll for SRM ammo malfunction and explosion on fire (for anyone running SRM, regardless of chassis). Now *that* would be fun. LRM chance to engage friendlies if lock broken. Tradeoff everywhere, risk vs. reward.

[valkyrie]

Oni Ralas, on 10 February 2013 - 09:00 AM, said:

Don't nerf the chassis, enhance the penalties for running them in certain configs. I don't care that there are glass cannon builds out there - but they should actually *be* glass cannons. Right now, this config has too much survival for what it can deliver vs. it's weight class.


Random roll for SRM ammo malfunction and explosion on fire (for anyone running SRM, regardless of chassis). Now *that* would be fun. LRM chance to engage friendlies if lock broken. Tradeoff everywhere, risk vs. reward.

Oh god, no, that would be AWFUL. Suddenly Cents are COMPLETELY useless, Stalkers are all running energy boat builds, and the Cat pilots just go back to AC/20s and Gauss.

SRM does need tweaking, but again, almost every "OP" build in this game's history has been on a Catapult. Don't penalize everyone else (see: Gauss nerf) because one chassis is superior to pretty much all others.

[KovarD]

valkyrie, on 10 February 2013 - 08:40 AM, said:

There's that "shoot the ears" and "shoot the cockpit" argument again. Watch this.



Notice my head AND ears gets severely damaged. I'm still running around turning fresh Centurions into scarecrows and there's not a damn thing they can do about it.

Seems balanced.

[Cybermech]

man that audio off the second link is funny as ****, what a nice find.
trial mechs and splat cats don't mix.
but all these videos show that you can't just blob one spot with out looking behind you

[KovarD]

valkyrie, on 10 February 2013 - 09:04 AM, said:

SRM does need tweaking, but again, almost every "OP" build in this game's history has been on a Catapult. Don't penalize everyone else (see: Gauss nerf) because one chassis is superior to pretty much all others.

Fist LRMpult, then Gausspult, Streakcat, Ac20pult and Splatcat...


EDIT: Just missed the Streakcats from hell.

Edited by KovarD, 10 February 2013 - 09:32 AM.

[Escef]

valkyrie, on 10 February 2013 - 08:59 AM, said:

Of course we're using it. We knew it was broken before we did it, but knew we wouldn't have a leg to stand on if people could go "JUST TRY IT, IT REQUIRES SKILL"

One A1, C4, and K2 Mastery later, I can assure you that no, it does not. Not nearly as much as other chassis, anyway.

I've unlocked the module slot on the A1, C1, and K2. I've found the A1 SRMcat to be very easy to use. And, quite frankly, rather boring. I've found that I like my K2 better, and my performance with it is more consistent. (Which is kind of funny, as the load out is very similar to the much maligned Rifleman.)

[Sifright]

Cybermech, on 10 February 2013 - 09:12 AM, said:

man that audio off the second link is funny as ****, what a nice find.
trial mechs and splat cats don't mix.
but all these videos show that you can't just blob one spot with out looking behind you

I believe that was the video i made

[valkyrie]

KovarD, on 10 February 2013 - 09:15 AM, said:

Fist LRMpult, then Gausspult, Ac20pult and Splatcat...

I'm a bit more OK with the LRMpult if only because that's always been the Cat's intended niche. It's the Brawlerpults that drive me up the wall.

[Ghogiel]

KovarD, on 10 February 2013 - 09:15 AM, said:

Fist LRMpult

Steiner LRMpults were never op.

[KovarD]

valkyrie, on 10 February 2013 - 09:20 AM, said:

I'm a bit more OK with the LRMpult if only because that's always been the Cat's intended niche. It's the Brawlerpults that drive me up the wall.

LRMpult was really overpowered back in closed beta when LRMs flying path was doing orbital strike. Then there was a Artemis bug aswell. But now after ECM LRMpult is not OP at all...

[Vassago Rain]

KovarD, on 10 February 2013 - 09:31 AM, said:

LRMpult was really overpowered back in closed beta when LRMs flying path was doing orbital strike. Then there was a Artemis bug aswell. But now after ECM LRMpult is not OP at all...

Have you dropped in the ghetto without ECM support? It takes about two volleys to kill an atlas with artemis lurms.

[Escef]

valkyrie, on 10 February 2013 - 09:20 AM, said:

I'm a bit more OK with the LRMpult if only because that's always been the Cat's intended niche. It's the Brawlerpults that drive me up the wall.

What about Butterbee?

[Redmond Spiderhammer]

Escef, on 10 February 2013 - 04:38 AM, said:

Let us look at this realistically. I know, dirty words, right?

We have a mech with 6 missile hard points, 3 in each arm. We have 4 basic options:

• LRMs
  
• SRMs
  
• Streak SRMs
  
• A mix of the above.

LRMs are not terribly viable because of ECM and unreliable teamwork. Streaks are just as bad off. SRMs are viable. A mix is often semi-viable.


At this point the big problem is that the only really viable build also happens to be... Good! It's solid, and leaves a lot of tonnage open for armor, heat sinks, bigger engines, and jump jets. Also, it's very easy to use: get close and unload with prejudice.

And you know what? It's the only reliable build for the A1. If you nerf it, no one will use the A1. People want to take away the only reliable build for the thing.

What a lot of people overlook is that the A1 has some pretty glaring weaknesses. First of all, it is useless outside of 270m. Second, even with a maxed out engine and Speed Tweak, it maxes out at 86.4 kph. Any light mech should be able to out maneuver it. Third, all of its firepower is packed into the very easily hit arms, blow one off and you literally half the machine's firepower. Both and all it's good for is caps. Fourth, like all Catapults, the head hit box is very large. Fifth, many of these monsters mount XL engines. I don't care what people have to say about the side torsos being slim. My K2 pult regularly loses one or both of its torso mounted AC5s, while the arm mounted lasers are still good to go. If the side torsos are so impossible to hit than riddle me that one, Batman.

Now, I understand that it's human nature to complain. And as a mediocre player myself, I really hate to bust out "learn to play" as a comeback/solution/whathaveyou. But that really is the answer in this case. Stop whining and start winning. Learn the weaknesses of your opponents and exploit them, instead of playing into their strengths.

Your point is why a lot of people are saying nerf the cat not the missiles. Missiles may be out of balance a little but the cat magnifies that. It doesn't need its hardpoint layout changed... thats the point of that variant. It doesn't need across the board boating nerf as some suggest.. also the point of that variant. It needs its 'stats' adjusted. 'Quirks' are incoming and I sincerely hope that when they get to the cats, they take a very close look at balance and make some adjustments. For the time being I just take my corings like a man and withhold a little respect fro the ones that come from 'easier' mechs.

[Infernus1986]

"CPLT-A1 - The A1 variant of the Catapult was designed without back-up weapons. While it doubles the amount of LRM ammo carried and adds on two tons of armor, it is highly susceptible to close range attacks and has little defense if an enemy does manage to close in on it."

Lets use TT rules to design the mech, totally nailed the a1 they did

Edited by Infernus1986, 10 February 2013 - 10:03 AM.

[Escef]

Infernus1986, on 10 February 2013 - 10:02 AM, said:

"CPLT-A1 - The A1 variant of the Catapult was designed without back-up weapons. While it doubles the amount of LRM ammo carried and adds on two tons of armor, it is highly susceptible to close range attacks and has little defense if an enemy does manage to close in on it."

Lets use TT rules to design the mech, totally nailed the a1 they did

Table top rules don't use hard points. You could stuff whatever you want in the thing, provided you had the C-bills and technical expertise.

[Sean Lang]

Didn't realize there is one and only one exact way to use, build a Splatcat...

[SixstringSamurai]

Sean Lang, on 10 February 2013 - 10:32 AM, said:

Didn't realize there is one and only one exact way to use, build a Splatcat...

There is.....the one way that involves you winning.

[Leimrey]

Believe me, you don't want to nerf srms. The moment you nerf srms gauss becomes king again and we'll be stuck with boring long range campfests with no close range brawling. I play long range builds mostly and I prefer srms to be left the way they are now, because pure brawler mechs need that heavy punch to be able to compensate for all the damage they sustain while closing in on a heavy hitting long range mech. I don't want this game end up like MW4 with every match being a a base camp with long range weapons.
Just decrease the catapult's torso twist somewhat and make its side torso hitboxes bigger so we could reliably hit that XL engine, that should solve the problem.

[LaserAngel]

Infernus1986, on 10 February 2013 - 10:02 AM, said:

"CPLT-A1 - The A1 variant of the Catapult was designed without back-up weapons. While it doubles the amount of LRM ammo carried and adds on two tons of armor, it is highly susceptible to close range attacks and has little defense if an enemy does manage to close in on it."

Lets use TT rules to design the mech, totally nailed the a1 they did

The funny thing is that the Catapult C4 is a better LRM boat since you can push out 40 missiles without staggered salvos and carry TAG.

[Vassago Rain]

Leimrey, on 10 February 2013 - 11:42 AM, said:

Believe me, you don't want to nerf srms. The moment you nerf srms gauss becomes king again and we'll be stuck with boring long range campfests with no close range brawling. I play long range builds mostly and I prefer srms to be left the way they are now, because pure brawler mechs need that heavy punch to be able to compensate for all the damage they sustain while closing in on a heavy hitting long range mech. I don't want this game end up like MW4 with every match being a a base camp with long range weapons.
Just decrease the catapult's torso twist somewhat and make its side torso hitboxes bigger so we could reliably hit that XL engine, that should solve the problem.

Please do all of this.