64 replies to this topic

[StandingCow]

This is something I have been wanting for a very long time. Mediums are supposed to be the workhorses, in a team of 8 you should probably have 1 assault MAYBE 2 max...

[Kylere]

This poll is awful. I would like to see weight limits just not based on this whiny bs.

[TheLastBroceratops]

im all for this

[Oni Ralas]

Weight should incur a cost penalty in the form of cbills and/or XP. A team that is too light (ie: running mostly lights) has some drawback as does those running all assaults. You could also give buffs to the "underdog" team in the form of like heat efficiency or cap speed bonus. Nothing too drastic, but enough to help even the odds (or, just lessen the blow of defeat).

The goal would be to, hopefully, start matching up on ballance. Med/Heavy are the bulk of a force, with recon lights and firesupport assaults making the remaining speartips. Right now, there is no cohesion in makeup. I can't blame a pure random drop person for this, but I can say any group knows their makeup beforehand and would thus accept a penalty on drop.

I just want the game to be fun. Fun for me is having a good fight - win or lose - not a game of "lets see who brought the most cheese boats".

[Duncan Aravain]

I support the BV version; although I would support a total weight limit version at 75ton/mech average, especially if you can choose to have fewer mechs but higher weight on your side (8 vs 5 for example).

Any K/D ratio that includes running a Raven-3L after how long the lag sheild was up and running is suspect at best.

[King Arthur IV]

i have no idea how you would make bv work and work in a way that does not leave us in a match lobby for 10mins before dropping.

im all for weight drop because its simple and fast.

[pistolero]

I think balance by weight does not work very good

for example a pimped up Jenner will be more effective than a stock Atlas


Maybe balance by C-Bill cost would work better

Mech cost in CB
+ extra charge for improvements ( Tag, BAP, ECM, Command Console )
I would suggest something like
+ 6 millions For ECM
+1 million for TAG
+ 0.5 million for BAP ...... just as an example for the numbers

multiplied by a "mech-chassis handicap"
something like
x 0.7 for an Awesome ( just because it does not perfom very well.. or i am jusz bad at it )
or x 1.3 for a jenner ( because i think it performs better than other mechs of the same weightclass)
or basicly x 0.5 for a Stock Mech ( hail for the trial mechs !! )

and the result would be the mech worth

additionally the ELO could be included
either as + a value in CB ( so every ELO value would have a CB worth for it )
or as a multiplicator basic "starting" ELO" = x 1 and higher ELO x 1.x -> lower ELO x 0.x ( because a good pilot perfroms better in any mech / a bad pilot performs worse in a any mech )

at the start of a round a max CB value for each team --> start + have fun

[Lukoi Banacek]

The option of a weight limited queue is interesting but Id vote 65ton average aka 520 ton limit for eight mans. It allows for the heaviest of each class to be present twice. No more or less an arbitrary departure point than the original poll choice.

[Ripnfly]

Thank you for your replies and votes this is becoming a very interesting topic.

[Mongoose Trueborn]

It's the pilot, not the weight of the mech, that makes the most difference if you win or lose. Stop trying to rationalize why you can't win every time.

[Splitpin]

IMHO. Weight limits would be OK (and better than nothing) but I'd rather class balance; lights, meds, heavies, assaults in eg 2,2,2,2 or 1,4,2,1 or such. Weight balance alone can still allow 4ECM Raven + 4ECM Atlas , whereas class balance demands a mix of mechs and help preclude whatever 'flavor of the week' is the current cheese build dominating.

[FupDup]

Splitpin, on 10 February 2013 - 05:47 PM, said:

IMHO. Weight limits would be OK (and better than nothing) but I'd rather class balance; lights, meds, heavies, assaults in eg 2,2,2,2 or 1,4,2,1 or such. Weight balance alone can still allow 4ECM Raven + 4ECM Atlas , whereas class balance demands a mix of mechs and help preclude whatever 'flavor of the week' is the current cheese build dominating.

The big issue with class balancing is that it assumes all mechs of one class are equal to each other. For instance, it counts a Flea as the equivalent of a Raven 3L. Generally speaking, the mechs on the low-end of their class's weight (i.e. a 40-ton medium, 80-ton assault, 20-ton light, etc.) tend to get shafted by class-balancing.

Edited by FupDup, 10 February 2013 - 05:53 PM.

[Ripnfly]

Class Balance doesnt work mediums and heavies are close but Assaults and Lights are truly not equal.

This being said if you have any ideas other then weight (OP idea) put them down if its a good idea I will try to get it attention, BV or battlevalue is a much better alternative however its also a much longer time to implement since its a pervalue per mech but overall is a better alternative.

[Psydotek]

There should be an adjustable weight limit. How should it be determined? Well, maybe by game type, maybe by the player/team that sets up the match (provided we get a lobby system in place someday).

[Eddrick]

Not sure what the limit should be. But, a limit would help. However, I would also, like to see an option for no limit as well for those that done't care about haveing a limit.

[Khobai]

There needs to be a Weight Limit. Right now theres absolutely nothing to balance the fact a Commando weighs 10 tons less than a Raven. There needs to be some incentive to take a Commando. Weight limit provides that. 480 sounds too low though. 500 tons seems about right to me.

Quote

BV or battlevalue is a much better alternative

Agreed. And everyone knows that. But we also know a BV system will never be implemented.

I dont know why a rudimentary BV system wouldnt work though... something like:

(weapon bv + equipment bv) * pilot skill modifier

PGI probably figures its more trouble that its worth... even though its the only real way to balance all the different combinations.

Edited by Khobai, 11 February 2013 - 07:08 AM.

[Tynan]

BV would be ideal, since we all know any DHS assault is much more of an asset than a SHS assault, for example...but failing that, having a weight limit's a good second best.

Maybe have a couple of tiers when dropping? Give a high-WL drop option and a low WL drop option? Might cause wait time to be too long, but something would be nice so that there's a reason to take mechs at the lower end of a given weight class.

[Anony Mouse]

pistolero, on 10 February 2013 - 09:07 AM, said:

I think balance by weight does not work very good

for example a pimped up Jenner will be more effective than a stock Atlas


Maybe balance by C-Bill cost would work better

Mech cost in CB
+ extra charge for improvements ( Tag, BAP, ECM, Command Console )
I would suggest something like
+ 6 millions For ECM
+1 million for TAG
+ 0.5 million for BAP ...... just as an example for the numbers

multiplied by a "mech-chassis handicap"
something like
x 0.7 for an Awesome ( just because it does not perfom very well.. or i am jusz bad at it )
or x 1.3 for a jenner ( because i think it performs better than other mechs of the same weightclass)
or basicly x 0.5 for a Stock Mech ( hail for the trial mechs !! )

and the result would be the mech worth

additionally the ELO could be included
either as + a value in CB ( so every ELO value would have a CB worth for it )
or as a multiplicator basic "starting" ELO" = x 1 and higher ELO x 1.x -> lower ELO x 0.x ( because a good pilot perfroms better in any mech / a bad pilot performs worse in a any mech )

at the start of a round a max CB value for each team --> start + have fun

Thats basically Battle Value you're describing, and as for Elo adjustments, it needn't be inclusive to BV but rather a BV modifier. Elo is comparative, so a 0.X multiplier would be applied to a high Elo player vs a low Elo player, alternatively a 1.X multiplier could be applied to a low Elo vs High Elo. Think of it as handicapping.

[Slater01]

It doesn't matter what this Poll says, apparently MWO has some wired unseen ideas for match making.
But having said that my vote for wieghts per Lance are:

130 Light Lance
195 Medium Lance
235 Average Lance
275 Heavy Lance
340 Assault Lance

or 470 tons per 8 mechs

[Brilig]

Hell yes bring on drop weight limits.