63 replies to this topic

[Kaspirikay]

Increase targeting time, meaning lock on time, by 2 times and have ECMed mechs appear on radar when they're under 500m from you or something and remove that lock on immunity?

That way, ECM will still be useful vs LRM but will now require users to take cover. They'll just have a bigger margin of freedom compared to no ECM. Instead of the total immunity, baring tag and ECCM, we have now.

SSRMs will also be affected as damage will take twice as long to begin. Though it would be better if SSRMs require a relock after every shot. Would go nicely with this ECM change.

I feel lock on immunity is too much for ECM to have. Coupled with sensor invisibility after 250m means its extremely difficult for locked weapons to be effective.

Thoughts?

[DocBach]

L2P... aim noob missles arent the only wepons in the game... get some actual skill and use srms or acs

[Timelordwho]

I think that it should limit detection effects out to ~600m or so and slow, but not prevent lock ons, and have limited radar interference, so that it is less ridiculous for 1.5T of equipment.

Strict hard counters in a game aren't fun, and that's what ECM currently is to SSRMs. Moderate/soft counters are fun, because it feels rewarding to outplay someone without them feeling like they lost before they even engaged.

DocBach, on 10 February 2013 - 07:49 AM, said:

L2P... aim noob missles arent the only wepons in the game... get some actual skill and use srms or acs

>SRMs
>Skill

Pick one.

[Kaspirikay]

DocBach, on 10 February 2013 - 07:49 AM, said:

L2P... aim noob missles arent the only wepons in the game... get some actual skill and use srms or acs

okay.

[Timelordwho]

Hmm, now that I think about it, cutting detection in half (to 400m) and letting modules and BAP push it out to 600m wouldn't be too bad. Then you'd have scout mechs with scouting sensors/equipment actually be useful.

[FupDup]

I think the real issues with ECM isn't the lock-on immunity so much as the ability to deny the enemy their usage of LoW's (lock-on weapons) while simultaneously being able to use your own as well as the "arms race" mentality caused by this.


One way to fix that could be to disable LoW's on any mechs within an ECM bubble, thereby giving it a risk-versus-reward aspect. If you want to use your missiles, you would have to make yourself vulnerable to the enemy's missiles as well.

Also, one ECM in counter mode should counter every enemy ECM within range of it instead of just one. Now people won't feel as much of a need to spam as many ECM-carriers as they possibly can.

Edited by FupDup, 10 February 2013 - 08:04 AM.

[Codejack]

No, I think the ECM should just explode at the beginning of the round, killing the mech carrying it and damaging nearby allies.

[Kaspirikay]

Codejack, on 10 February 2013 - 08:04 AM, said:

No, I think the ECM should just explode at the beginning of the round, killing the mech carrying it and damaging nearby allies.

[KuruptU4Fun]

Ok normally I'd stick a fairly big pic saying something about why is there another thread like this or use the search bar to find other threads to QQ in instead.

But you happened to catch me on a day where my back isn't hurting and my first cup of coffee was pretty good. So I'll do my best to accommodate you.

Kaspirikay, on 10 February 2013 - 07:45 AM, said:

Increase targeting time, meaning lock on time, by 2 times and have ECMed mechs appear on radar when they're under 500m from you or something and remove that lock on immunity?

ECM is designed to deny the enemy the ability to use guided missile. Not delay, but deny. This affects LRM's and SSRM's, SRM's can still be used, but at 500 meters the spread is just too much.

Quote

That way, ECM will still be useful vs LRM but will now require users to take cover. They'll just have a bigger margin of freedom compared to no ECM. Instead of the total immunity, baring tag and ECCM, we have now.

As you know there are a few soft counters to ECM, they provide you with a couple of choices. Run with a mech that has ECM and can use LRM's or SSRM's. Or use the counters like direct damage weapons against the part of the torso housing said module. It's a tactical answer really, there is at least one more soft counter coming with PPC's, maybe another when collisions are readded to deal with ECM light mechs.

Quote

SSRMs will also be affected as damage will take twice as long to begin. Though it would be better if SSRMs require a relock after every shot. Would go nicely with this ECM change.

In most of the instances you're describing you're in the middle of a dogfight with multiple people. If your SSRM's aren't working against 1 mech, go find another they will work against. Let the direct fire people deal with the ECM mechs, once you've identified them which mech it is.

Quote

I feel lock on immunity is too much for ECM to have. Coupled with sensor invisibility after 250m means its extremely difficult for locked weapons to be effective.

Thoughts?

If you are alone on a match then there are options you can make to deal with ECM mechs. Much earlier there was only about 1 way to deal with an ECM mech and that was to bring your own. PGI has changed that to make the game more fun from a tactical standpoint.

[Thirdstar]

KuruptU4Fun, on 10 February 2013 - 08:11 AM, said:

Much earlier there was only about 1 way to deal with an ECM mech and that was to bring your own.

This has not changed.

[Jerod Drekmor]

Im new in game but aftera week of playing I can say Ecm are ****** me of to edge.....Long rage support is part of any warfare and right now LRM are hit hard cuz one guy in team has little device with magic power of invisibility cloak....well its hardly matter of skill if enemy has no way to lock on you....as well as it fun to some ppl it bad for game cuz its make less builds avaible to play thus make it more repeteble and boring.(sorry for my english)

[KuruptU4Fun]

Thirdstar, on 10 February 2013 - 08:13 AM, said:

This has not changed.

From your standpoint maybe not. But options are there and more are coming. Stop stonewalling and realize the truth has been put there.

[Deamhan]

DocBach, on 10 February 2013 - 07:49 AM, said:

L2P... aim noob missles arent the only wepons in the game... get some actual skill and use srms or acs

Looks like someone obviously doesn't use LRMs. How about they remove ECM and pilots l2p by making proper use of cover instead of being able to run around freely without worrying about being rained on.

The two major effects to ECM should be separated into two seperate modules.

Communication Jamming: This refers to things like not being able to share targeting with friendly units.

Stealth Generator: Reduces the sig radius to 0 preventing lock.

Remove the ECM hard point, make these omni modules that can make use of any weapon hard point, but still only let it be available to the chassis that currently have it. If you want the full effect of ECM, you're giving up two weapons for it. The eWar units become your "weapon".

[KuruptU4Fun]

Jerod Drekmor, on 10 February 2013 - 08:14 AM, said:

Im new in game but aftera week of playing I can say Ecm are ****** me of to edge.....Long rage support is part of any warfare and right now LRM are hit hard cuz one guy in team has little device with magic power of invisibility cloak....well its hardly matter of skill if enemy has no way to lock on you....as well as it fun to some ppl it bad for game cuz its make less builds avaible to play thus make it more repeteble and boring.(sorry for my english)

Well there's another little device that allows a mech to point me out like the cat in the middle of a pack of dogs and rain LRM's down upon me. You can put it on your mech and use it directly, or find a bunch of friends who will use it and help you.

[Thirdstar]

KuruptU4Fun, on 10 February 2013 - 08:16 AM, said:

From your standpoint maybe not. But options are there and more are coming.
Stop stonewalling and realize the truth has been put there.

Yeah, Mulder you got that right.

Edited by Thirdstar, 10 February 2013 - 08:24 AM.

[KuruptU4Fun]

Thirdstar, on 10 February 2013 - 08:24 AM, said:

Yeah, Mulder you got that right.

Let's keep your denial funny, and not go any deeper than that 'kay???

Edited by KuruptU4Fun, 10 February 2013 - 08:27 AM.

[Codejack]

KuruptU4Fun, on 10 February 2013 - 08:11 AM, said:

ECM is designed to deny the enemy the ability to use guided missile. Not delay, but deny. This affects LRM's and SSRM's, SRM's can still be used, but at 500 meters the spread is just too much.

Do you even play the game?

First, ECM was never supposed to affect missiles at all; this is a serious departure that PGI has taken.

Second, if you have ECM yourself, you can use SSRMs with impunity.

Third, SRMs explode in midair at 270m.

KuruptU4Fun, on 10 February 2013 - 08:11 AM, said:

As you know there are a few soft counters to ECM, they provide you with a couple of choices. Run with a mech that has ECM and can use LRM's or SSRM's. Or use the counters like direct damage weapons against the part of the torso housing said module. It's a tactical answer really, there is at least one more soft counter coming with PPC's, maybe another when collisions are readded to deal with ECM light mechs.

Ah yes, just hit the mechs with weapons that you can't hit the mechs that have ECM with to disable the ECM so you can use the weapons that you can hit them with.... this made sense to you?

KuruptU4Fun, on 10 February 2013 - 08:11 AM, said:

In most of the instances you're describing you're in the middle of a dogfight with multiple people. If your SSRM's aren't working against 1 mech, go find another they will work against. Let the direct fire people deal with the ECM mechs, once you've identified them which mech it is.

Right, just type in chat where the ECM mech is.... and of course, if the ECM mech is killing you, your team can't see what you type.... or where you are on the map.... or tell the difference between friend and foe even if they get there....

KuruptU4Fun, on 10 February 2013 - 08:11 AM, said:

If you are alone on a match then there are options you can make to deal with ECM mechs. Much earlier there was only about 1 way to deal with an ECM mech and that was to bring your own.

No, that's still the only way; it's just no fun.

KuruptU4Fun, on 10 February 2013 - 08:11 AM, said:

PGI has changed that to make the game more fun from a tactical standpoint.

If PGI wanted to make the game more fun, they would remove ECM entirely until they hire someone with a sense of proportion to redesign it.

[Kaspirikay]

Quote

ECM is designed to deny the enemy the ability to use guided missile. Not delay, but deny. This affects LRM's and SSRM's, SRM's can still be used, but at 500 meters the spread is just too much.

Yes, that is what ECM is supposed to do. But it is just a bad game mechanic to be able to completely counter things. I hate to bring this into the debate because I'm usually against it, but TT also says this version of ECM doesn't stop lock ons.

Also, I think you mean 270m. SRMs can't go beyond that.

Quote

As you know there are a few soft counters to ECM, they provide you with a couple of choices. Run with a mech that has ECM and can use LRM's or SSRM's. Or use the counters like direct damage weapons against the part of the torso housing said module. It's a tactical answer really, there is at least one more soft counter coming with PPC's, maybe another when collisions are readded to deal with ECM light mechs.

A poster above put it quite nicely that this causes an arms race. As of right now, the only real counter to ECM is another ECM mech. Which is, as I said, a bad game mechanic

Quote

In most of the instances you're describing you're in the middle of a dogfight with multiple people. If your SSRM's aren't working against 1 mech, go find another they will work against. Let the direct fire people deal with the ECM mechs, once you've identified them which mech it is.

The issue with this tactic is that the ECM mech will most likely have covered you in their bubble. Once that happens, all lock on weapons are disabled. You can't lock on another enemy mech when you're within an enemy ECM bubble. I have tried to play extremely tactically, going away from the ECM mech into the ECM deadzone, the area between 180m and 250m, however it is extremely difficult to hold a lock when in that deadzone because the offending mech moves quite fast.

DDCs are less of an issue in this aspect, though.

Good to hear your day started out nice, anyway

Edited by Kaspirikay, 10 February 2013 - 08:36 AM.

[KuruptU4Fun]

You're asking me if I'm playing the same game as you and yet you've openly stated that you never want to play this game again?

Seriously Code, there has to be SOMETHING besides arguing your uberbeaten rants that you can do that bring you some sort of enjoyment in life...

[Kaspirikay]

help, my post broke the forums.

nevermind i fixed it

Edited by Kaspirikay, 10 February 2013 - 08:36 AM.