23 replies to this topic

[Walter Soebchak]

Here is my question, for someone with a better understand of IP law and legality: If they didn't have rights or access to the 'unseen' designs, would they still be allowed to feature the warhammer in a video under the media section of this website?

[Tarman]

I have a better question. Why would they use a mech in their media presentations when you can't even get it in the game?

[Walter Soebchak]

Also, a good question, but doesn't really apply to the intellectual property aspect, more just them being dicks and teasing with classic mechs.

[Tarman]

As far as legality goes it's a pointless quagmire that would only eat precious monies. FASA did it, they WON their cases. But financially they may as well have just burned all that money for all the good it did them because Harmony Gold just kept making everything a ridiculous hassle. So until they all die and some Japanese Mechwarrior fan inherits the rights, they are verboten.

[Vassago Rain]

Harmony gold lost the rights almost three years ago.
It's a non-issue.

[Tarman]

Vassago Rain, on 09 February 2013 - 12:37 PM, said:

Harmony gold lost the rights almost three years ago.
It's a non-issue.

Did they? So what limbo do they currently reside in?

[Vassago Rain]

Tarman, on 09 February 2013 - 12:37 PM, said:

Did they? So what limbo do they currently reside in?

In no limbo.
The rights are owned by the japanese people who made the mechs, and harmony gold have no rights to anything. If they want the old mechs in the game, they could just add them.

...and even if the rights were in harmony gold's hands, they could still redesign them, and there would be no problem. So it was never an issue.

[Tarman]

Vassago Rain, on 09 February 2013 - 12:39 PM, said:

In no limbo.
The rights are owned by the japanese people who made the mechs, and harmony gold have no rights to anything. If they want the old mechs in the game, they could just add them.

...and even if the rights were in harmony gold's hands, they could still redesign them, and there would be no problem. So it was never an issue.

Well then they'd better get cracking. If PGI is just keeping this under wraps because SURPRISE HERE THEY ARE, I'd rather know now and die of anticipation than die of curiosity as to whether they're coming in or not.

[Thorn Hallis]

Well, the question regarding the unseen in the latest "Ask the devs" topics was answered with something like "Sorry, I'm not allowed to talk about it". So maybe there is some sort of NDA in effect?

[Vassago Rain]

Thorn Hallis, on 09 February 2013 - 12:41 PM, said:

Well, the question regarding the unseen in the latest "Ask the devs" topics was answered with something like "Sorry, I'm not allowed to talk about it". So maybe there is some sort of NDA in effect?

Possibly. There's a lot of things that could be going on that we don't know about. I covered a bunch of possibilties in the other thread on this subject.

[Assault One]

I'm pretty sure the Japanese rights holders of Macross won't allow the Unseen designs. So my question is, legally, are the Reseen safe to put in at this point?

[Surtr]

I have this dream that the dev's have secretly already developed all of the clan mechs and unseen, and are going to drop them all on us at once, and thats why initial development was slower than was expected...hey a guy can dream right!

[Tarman]

Surtr, on 09 February 2013 - 01:27 PM, said:

I have this dream that the dev's have secretly already developed all of the clan mechs and unseen, and are going to drop them all on us at once, and thats why initial development was slower than was expected...hey a guy can dream right!

My brain would explode. I could have a Warhammer IIC. AND with Betty on the mike. Good lord.

WHAT HAS BEEN DRIVEN CANNOT BE UNDRIVEN

[Vassago Rain]

Assault One, on 09 February 2013 - 12:55 PM, said:

I'm pretty sure the Japanese rights holders of Macross won't allow the Unseen designs. So my question is, legally, are the Reseen safe to put in at this point?

I don't see why they wouldn't want some of that molah.

[AlexEss]

Vassago Rain, on 09 February 2013 - 12:39 PM, said:

In no limbo.
The rights are owned by the japanese people who made the mechs, and harmony gold have no rights to anything. If they want the old mechs in the game, they could just add them.

...and even if the rights were in harmony gold's hands, they could still redesign them, and there would be no problem. So it was never an issue.

They would still need to licens them form the original owners. EI pay a lot of money for nothing.

[Texugo87]

To some of the other posters:

Just because HG is no longer the licenseholder of the material doesn't mean that someone else isn't, namely the original producers of Macross. From my understanding HG held the license for a specific region, and had the right to sue on that, however no longer hold that license. I haven't read the relevant cases, I'm just going off of some secondary sources I've seen.

To try to answer the OP's question:

They could have permission to use the warhammer in a video, without being able to use it in the game. If they used it without permission, they could have been given permission after the fact to leave the video up but not use it in any subsequent work. Alternatively they could have had a licence to use it in the MechWarrior reboot they created that video for, but that licence may not extend to this product, or terms of their use may have made their inclusion not viable in MWO (costs, limits on use, etc).

So in short that video does not indicate whether or not they are able to use the Unseen in MWO. It likely indicates that there has been some sort of understanding reached between PGI/IGP and the licenseholders, but does not indicate what that understanding would be.

Edited by cjmurphy87, 09 February 2013 - 01:48 PM.

[KinLuu]

Quote

Hello,

Yes. The BattleTech Line Developer wishes to take no more chances with images that were not generated in-house by FASA or the other designated license-holders of the BattleTech universe and game line.

Thank you,

- Herbert Beas
BattleTech
Catalyst Game Labs

Catalyst pussied out.

[DirePhoenix]

Vassago Rain, on 09 February 2013 - 12:37 PM, said:

Harmony gold lost the rights almost three years ago.
It's a non-issue.

Vassago Rain, on 09 February 2013 - 12:39 PM, said:

...and even if the rights were in harmony gold's hands, they could still redesign them, and there would be no problem. So it was never an issue.

In short, the 2009 video of the MechWarrior "reboot" (as it was called back then) is not MWO. That was going to be a single player campaign game (set in the much more reasonable time period of 3015) with multiplayer added on (and in that sense probably not unlike every other MW game made to date).

The Warhammer shown in the video though was not the "Unseen" Warhammer. It was not a "Reseen" Warhammer. It was a new design (although it was still a Warhammer) made just for that demo video.

Also, just to put this out there again, ALL OF THE 'MECHS IN MWO are using new original art.

Pirahna does not have the rights to use the art in the Tech Readouts or any print book. Those belong to Topps (yes, the people that make trading cards).

There is no issue with the 'Mech names, stats, or lore. They still exist. The only thing that was ever in contention was the art used in the original 3025 Tech Readout and the earliest versions of the tabletop BattleTech.

That being said, since PGI has no rights to any of the TRO art past or present, and that they have to create new art for the 'mechs we have in MWO anyway (regardless of "unseen" status or not), there is no reason why they should not be able to come up with their own art/designs for these 'mechs, much like the MW:Reboot Warhammer.

[Texugo87]

KinLuu, on 09 February 2013 - 01:54 PM, said:

Catalyst pussied out.

Or they made a reasonable business decision to only work with copyrighted material for which they control the copyright, instead of dealing with revocable or time limited licenses. Not wanting your product to become highly associated with someone else's work because they can later withhold that material and demand more money for it is totally having pussied out, right?

Edited by cjmurphy87, 09 February 2013 - 02:09 PM.

[Ashnod]

Vassago Rain, on 09 February 2013 - 12:39 PM, said:

In no limbo.
The rights are owned by the japanese people who made the mechs, and harmony gold have no rights to anything. If they want the old mechs in the game, they could just add them.

...and even if the rights were in harmony gold's hands, they could still redesign them, and there would be no problem. So it was never an issue.

or they can use the reseen designs.. Really atm there is no reason for us to not have warhammer's shadow hawks and phoenix hawks etc.

Edited by Ashnod, 09 February 2013 - 02:14 PM.