31 replies to this topic

[trebormills]

this thread is why the game needs a training section- a trial vs static targets

How to walk
how to setup weapons
aiming
wpn pros and cons
engine and heatsinks etc
chat
setup c3 and ts etc

then a play area- what we have now

[Splinters]

Without a PvE component, there is no way to truly teach all the components to new users. And if you do create the full training, the user will abandon the game due to "too complicated". There are so many little rules that made BT/MW an incredibly successful franchise that I doubt any training can really prep them for all the details. Forum posts and web-based mechlabs are definitely a step in the right direction, but teammates and bouncing ideas with live builds is really the only way to "teach" a new user how to play BT/MW.

-S

[Eggs Mayhem]

Soda Popinsky, on 11 February 2013 - 10:53 PM, said:

I recall in the Critical Hits sticky, it mentioned engines have 15 health points. Does that not apply yet?

It's been applied, but engine criticals do nothing right now

[CmdrPoopyPants]

Splinters, on 12 February 2013 - 10:58 AM, said:

Without a PvE component, there is no way to truly teach all the components to new users. And if you do create the full training, the user will abandon the game due to "too complicated". There are so many little rules that made BT/MW an incredibly successful franchise that I doubt any training can really prep them for all the details. Forum posts and web-based mechlabs are definitely a step in the right direction, but teammates and bouncing ideas with live builds is really the only way to "teach" a new user how to play BT/MW.

-S

Hence the need for a match making system that takes skill and number of matches (and perhaps number of mechs owned) and maybe even the mech being used (is it considered uber? is it just off stock? is it a trial?) needed to be perfected before turning potentially 8 raw noobs in trial mechs loose against a 4-man premade (or worse, two!) in over powerd, souped up death grinders.

If you think being "too complicated" might turn people off, what do you think happens when they get into a handful of matches that they lose 0:8 in under 3 minutes? They're gonna think "what the hell is the point of this game?!" and walk away.

Yes, yes.. a better match making system is "coming", but my point is, given how complicated this game is and given how stacked teams tend to be, this should have been done LONG before -open- beta (which, in a F2P world, is the same as full release.. they are taking in cash, the money ball is rolling.. and in all sane parts of reality, that's "retail").

[Gothbloodman]

XphR, on 10 February 2013 - 03:45 PM, said:

If you hold your breath you can turn a little faster regardless of speed.

Also, if you push the keys on your keyboard really hard! It seems to let the computer know you REALLY need to turn NOW!!!

[Gothbloodman]

trebormills, on 12 February 2013 - 10:40 AM, said:

this thread is why the game needs a training section- a trial vs static targets

How to walk
how to setup weapons
aiming
wpn pros and cons
engine and heatsinks etc
chat
setup c3 and ts etc

then a play area- what we have now

To the Training Grounds!

[armyof1]

Gothbloodman, on 13 February 2013 - 09:33 AM, said:

To the Training Grounds!

Seeing an instruction video is a start, but being able to learn all the things mentioned without a splatcat blasting you at the same time would help a lot more.

[Splinters]

Well, I think one more week to see the results of PGI's work is worth the wait to make a judgement. I would agree that a new player will be quitting for one reason or another, but maybe the new ELO will do really well and maybe they won't.

ELO is part of the equation the part that is missing in this is also what you mentioned about the mech loadout. In BT/MW TT there was a Battle Value (BV) associated with each build according to the weapon and components and weight of a mech, but in this case we would need an updated one for the changes associated with PGI's version of the rules. Essentially there would need to be a combination of ELO and updated BV to correctly match everyone.

My biggest concern is that if there are not enough users of a certain quality or skill, the unskilled, untrained, and inexperienced will still get tossed in to matches and we will still end up in the same spot as we are today.

To finish, I really do not think a PvE component will solve the matchmaking issues, it will only delay a few of them. Given how much work is needed for a PvE cycle, I'd rather PGI work on making the game the best mech PvP game than distract with a whole PvE "training ground" development cycle.

-S

CmdrPoopyPants, on 12 February 2013 - 11:46 AM, said:

Hence the need for a match making system that takes skill and number of matches (and perhaps number of mechs owned) and maybe even the mech being used (is it considered uber? is it just off stock? is it a trial?) needed to be perfected before turning potentially 8 raw noobs in trial mechs loose against a 4-man premade (or worse, two!) in over powerd, souped up death grinders.

If you think being "too complicated" might turn people off, what do you think happens when they get into a handful of matches that they lose 0:8 in under 3 minutes? They're gonna think "what the hell is the point of this game?!" and walk away.

Yes, yes.. a better match making system is "coming", but my point is, given how complicated this game is and given how stacked teams tend to be, this should have been done LONG before -open- beta (which, in a F2P world, is the same as full release.. they are taking in cash, the money ball is rolling.. and in all sane parts of reality, that's "retail").

[XphR]

Gothbloodman, on 13 February 2013 - 08:50 AM, said:

Also, if you push the keys on your keyboard really hard! It seems to let the computer know you REALLY need to turn NOW!!!

Words to live by!

[Dauphni]

WNxFireDrake, on 10 February 2013 - 04:52 PM, said:

Another little thing is that not all missile hardpoints are created equal. If you take an LRM 15 off of a Cat C1 and replace it with an LRM 20, when firing the 20 you'll see that not all 20 missiles leave the launcher together. It instead looks like there are two firings. That's because the C1 only has 15 missile tubes for each hardpoint, so it can only launch 15 missiles at a time. So it launches 15, then 5 for the LRM 20. All mechs have this issue. One of my favorites is the Stalker that comes with NARC. That's a missile hardpoint with only one tube, so if you put a LRM 20 on there it'll fire 20 missiles, one at a time.

Another fun thing about missile slots is that the limit applies per weapon, and weapons can stack. So indeed, if you have an LRM20 and just 15 tubes, you'll fire two volleys, one of 15 and one of 5. If instead of the Cat C1 you had an A1 and put in two LRM10s, those 20 missiles would come out in a single volley, even though you're firing more missiles than you have tubes. It's a weird quirk of the system. It's probably not a good idea, but theoretically you could put three LRM15s in each of the A1's ears, and fire 90 missiles at once...

[Gothbloodman]

armyof1, on 13 February 2013 - 12:40 PM, said:

Seeing an instruction video is a start, but being able to learn all the things mentioned without a splatcat blasting you at the same time would help a lot more.

I agree. Good point.

[Watchit]

There's supposed to be a "testing grounds" or something coming in soon, where you can drop by yourself and shoot at stationary and moving targets, practice moving around and the like. Let me see if I can find the specific post about it.

Here it is:

Bryan Ekman, on 22 January 2013 - 01:09 PM, said:

Q: Will you implement a real trial ground map in game, where players could learn how to maneuver and shoot without having to take into consideration enemies or his teammates?
A: This will come in two parts: Testing Grounds – an empty sandbox level with dummy targets, and Private Matches.

Edited by Watchit, 14 February 2013 - 05:45 PM.