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1000 Rpm Machine Guns


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Poll: machine gun buff (13 member(s) have cast votes)

what kind of buff would you like

  1. 1000 rpm ( more bullets = higher dps) (9 votes [69.23%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 69.23%

  2. no change will make them any good (4 votes [30.77%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 30.77%

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#1 Stealthsrevenge

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 01:13 AM

I understand that machine guns are for infantry only but they can still chew the armor with time and plenty of ammo. 1 ton of machine gun ammo does about 80 damage with the fire rate lets say around 500 RPM a rough estimate, so to do 80 dmg with 2 machine gun will take about 2 minute with the 1ton ammo if they stay still. So you add more machine gun better dps the max ballistic hardpoint is 4 which is 2000 rpm and will do 80 dmg in one minute and i sa again if they stand still.

My idea to make the machine gun more use is to increase fire rate to 800 to 1000 rpm but keep same damage so that you are going to need more than one ton of machine gun ammo and increase range to 120 meter. even with these kind of buff its still not going to do massive damage
but slight usability and to make it work with the crit system double or triple.

To have 4 machine gun doing 1000 rpm X 4 is 4000 RPM so in one minute and 2 ton of ammo is 160 dmg overall it will still have the inaccurate shoot so pinpoint shooting for you but when you are in a battle frenzy they are not going to stand still so you will miss, they will get out of effective range and they will still kill you but at least ther more damage done.

light mech will take advantage with the improve machine gun do to that they can carry one or 2 auto cannon unless you strip every thing and have limited ammo.the spyder that has 4 ballistic hardpoint cant realy use auto cannon unless you free up space. The medium, heavy and assault mech cant realy use cause machine gun (unless you feel like it) hey use bigger gun they can carry a few like 2 to 4 auto cannon with plenty of ammo. for the catapult slap on 2 ac 20 and your set

that my way of improving the machine gun without making them overpowering only by make them shoot faster. would be a good idea to make every weapon useable in combat.
what your comment about this

Edited by Stealthsrevenge, 11 February 2013 - 01:15 AM.


#2 Kmieciu

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 03:50 AM

Machineguns are now @ 600 RPM (10 rounds a second ) and 0.4 DPS (Damage per second). If they were firing at 1000 RPM, that would mean 0.66 DPS. It`s still pathetic in comparison to a Small laser (1 DPS of pinpoint hitscan fire)

I am in favour of all machinegun buffs, but since they are rotary miniguns, the appropiate ROF should be 1800 RPM minimum (1.2 DPS) - it would match the sound sample used for them.

Edited by Kmieciu, 11 February 2013 - 03:51 AM.


#3 LaCai

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 05:20 AM

machine guns advantage is that it aint giving any heat and dual wielding machine guns only weights 0.5 ton each and 2000 ammo weights 1 ton,
so whit that setup a raven can do at the moment 2x0.4 (0.8) DPS it would propally be too much for such a light vehicle doing 2x1.2 (2.4) DPS whit such low weight.
and it can have also Streak 2´s and 2 medium lasers so overall DPS

Amount Weapon DPS Heat generating Weight
2x------------Medium lasers---------2x1.25=2.5 DPS------2x1=2 HPS---------------2x1=2 Ton´s
1x------------Streaker SRM 2-------1x1.43=1.43 DPS------1x0.57=0.57 HPS------1x1=1 Ton´s +1 ton for 100 ammo (2 tons)
2x------------Machine Guns---------2x0.4=0.8 DPS------2x0=0 HPS---------------0.5x2=1 Ton´s + 1 ton for 2000 ammo (2 tons)

so overall DPS 4.73 at cost of 2.57 HPS weight of 4 tons+2 tons of ammo=6 tons
im pretty sure ya dont want that kinda raven to have 6.33 DPS what he can keep up like 2 minutes.

thats my RVN-4x Ravens current build
Link http://mwo.smurfy-ne...75b9daa1546eebf

#4 Stringburka

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 06:31 AM

View PostLaCai, on 11 February 2013 - 05:20 AM, said:

thats my RVN-4x Ravens current build
Link http://mwo.smurfy-ne...75b9daa1546eebf

Swapping the MG's for heatsinks drops your alpha by .08 and increases your DPS with .17, and make you less reliant on being close. When you get double heat sink the difference will be even more noticable since you can swap the MedLas for MPL's, increasing your alpha by 1.92 and your DPS with 1.21. And with both builds you completely drop the risk of running out of ammo.

The OP's suggestion would increase the DPS of machine guns to .67, so your linked build would have a DPS of 2.87, higher than the heat sink replacement but far lower that the DHS version. And ammo would only last for 30 seconds.

Just swap:
RVN-4X
DHS:
RVN-4X

Machine guns are _crap_ as it is now. The devs seem to want to increase their critical damage, a change I support.

Edited by Stringburka, 11 February 2013 - 06:35 AM.


#5 LaCai

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 12:32 AM

View PostStringburka, on 11 February 2013 - 06:31 AM, said:

The OP's suggestion would increase the DPS of machine guns to .67, so your linked build would have a DPS of 2.87, higher than the heat sink replacement but far lower that the DHS version. And ammo would only last for 30 seconds.

Just swap:
RVN-4X
DHS:
RVN-4X




Builds
just cant agree on both setups right arm and right torso only have weapons so doesnt work on this raven. if i lose other side im disaplet.

Alphastrike
Alphastrike only shows you how much damage i can do if i fire every weapon once
so MG raises it only 0.04.

Max sustained DPS & DHS

Ma Raven
RVN-4X Ma Raven
Max sustained DPS 4.58 (can be good idea, chance to get hit by criticals raises tho)
Alphastrike 25.08

Just swap:
RVN-4X
Max sustained DPS 2.5
Alphastrike 25.00

DHS:
RVN-4X
Max sustained DPS 3.54
Alphastrike 27.00

So if im lucky and get nice hit on back armor it can destroy back center torso´s armor
so MG´s can handle the rest.

Reliant on beign close
im raven i move fast i maneuver always close and stay there becaus i out speed bigger mechs.
Light mech is made for close combat.


Baseline
to be honest i think this build would be pretty popular after.
sustained DPS would raise from current 2x0.4(0.8) to 2x0.67(1.37)
how about HBK-4G that could sneak behind you hit dual PPC´s
and then keep hitting you whit hes triple MG 3x0.67=2.01 DPS
its okay to me, but then we will see alot of Dual MG ravens.
and they are still pretty useless for bigger mech´s.

but hey thanks for that DHS idea for my build.
even mostly Heat aint my problem number 1. using my laser on cycle mode.
have made weapon group which fire them same time aswell.

#6 LaCai

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 12:41 AM

oh and im still pretty noob have been playin a week or so.

#7 Stringburka

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 08:49 AM

View PostLaCai, on 12 February 2013 - 12:32 AM, said:

Builds just cant agree on both setups right arm and right torso only have weapons so doesnt work on this raven. if i lose other side im disaplet.

Having all weapons on one arm mean you can use the other as a shield and the weapons hit the same part of the enemy. And if they blow your right arm you're down to missiles for effective damage anyway, the MG's are so neglible.

View PostLaCai, on 12 February 2013 - 12:32 AM, said:

Alphastrike Alphastrike only shows you how much damage i can do if i fire every weapon once so MG raises it only 0.04.

Agreed, and since alphas are very good that is a drawback of the MG. But even counting a full second fire it's still just .8 damage for both of them.

Quote

Max sustained DPS & DHS Ma Raven RVN-4X Ma Raven Max sustained DPS 4.58 (can be good idea, chance to get hit by criticals raises tho)

Dropping the MG's for DHS's increase the DPS to 4.63. In total those three criticals and 2 tons only give you .52 DPS compared to having nothing at all, and those tons could be enough for armor + AMS, or as noted higher DPS.

And here, as an example of splitting up the weapons, you can notice how little of a benefit it is.
If you have the DHS version, DPS with both arms is 4.63, damage if you lose left arm is 4.63, damage if you lose right arm is 3.75 and if you lose both arms is 3.75.
If you have the MG version, DPS with both arms is 4.58, damage if you lose left arm is 4.03, damage if you lose right arm is 4.55, and damage if you lose both arms is 3.75.

So you trade overall DPS when in good condition for having better damage if exactly the right arm is torn of but slightly worse damage if the left arm is torn off. And of course, you'll have a much harder time getting your full DPS since it's lower range and when you're at that low a range your weapons will hit different parts of the target.

2xML + DHS means you'll have 1.85 DPS pinpoint damage at <270 ranges + 2.78 splash damage at <270m.
2xML + MG means you'll have 1.62 DPS pinpoint damage at <270 ranges + 2.44 splash damage at <270m + 0.52 splash damage at <90 meters.

Less accuracy, less range, less damage. For what? Having a bit better damage if one specific component people generally don't aim at (most go for the legs or core) gets blown of (and worse if the other does).

And while I agree staying close behind an Atlas or Vulture is generally a great idea, against a splatcat or LBX cicada that can be really dangerous. Having the option to do damage out to 400 meters, even if it's just 5 damage now and then, is useful.

And combining weapons which don't work below 90 meters (don't work very well at least) with weapons that don't work outside 90 meters (meaningfully) is reaaaally bad. For that tactic, consider this instead: HBK-4G
Slightly higher speed, about 35% higher DPS, and can start firing all weapons from about the same distance and continue to fire them when up close. Sliiightly lower alpha, but can use it's full alpha at any distance up to 600 meters rather than between 90 and 180 meters.
If you have two PPC's you'd rather stay away and use those than move up for 1.2 DPS.

Edited by Stringburka, 12 February 2013 - 08:58 AM.


#8 Gaan Cathal

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 09:00 AM

View PostLaCai, on 12 February 2013 - 12:32 AM, said:

just cant agree on both setups right arm and right torso only have weapons so doesnt work on this raven. if i lose other side im disaplet.


If you loose your laser arm in a 4X you're down to missiles anyway, since MGs are currently so negligible. If you're new to the Raven I, personally, use the 4X to run a pair of Large Pulse Lasers and ignore the useless ballistic hardpoints (and the useful missile one, sadly, if you want any sort of speed). It's not the most optimal build, but it's a sight better than wasting two tons on a pair of MGs at the minute.

#9 LaCai

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 02:47 PM

Okey have to admit i like the sound of them! :ph34r:
and i got serious heat issues when using Energy weapons on my Raven,
becaus never bought DHS´s for it.
but if i had heat to spare would gonna try somethink like...haw haw...
abit wickedness and creativity.... RVN-4X 33.08 firepower if could sneak behind enemy, he would be shocked pretty badly.

people compares it alot to Medium laser.
even its closer to Small pulse laser (weight etc) and keep forgetting Machine guns generates 0 HP/s
So my point if view is that MG´s=Solution if you got ballistic slot and a heating problem.
like i have in my current build in RVN-4X.
i can fire 4x2ML and then have to be long period on cooling before can shoot 1 again.
and if i let it overheat shutdown im propally wasted.

was thinking a Range buff but,
do we buff Small lase and small pulse laser aswell...
And they sound so awesome :ph34r: still noob player.

#10 spectrum8

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 03:17 PM

Machine guns are probably the most ridiculous weapon in this game. This game features giant mechs covered in armor only capable of being penetrated by lasers and high explosive rounds after sustained fire. Basically a mech is similar to any modern tank (light or main battle tank either way) and as such should never be damaged by 7.62 or even .50 cal rounds out of a 'machine gun'. The only way the machine gun could be useful is if it fired the equivalent of 20mm+ shells in which case it would become essentially....an auto-cannon. Remember the GAU-8 Avenger on the A-10? The infamous Warthog is extremely deadly to tanks only because it fires 30mm shells at a rate of 4200rpm. So as soon as someone actually opens their eyes to the totally unrealistic weapon that is the machine gun, it will be removed from this game. Whether or not an AC/1 or something similar takes it's place is another story..

#11 Metafox

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 03:26 PM

While I like the idea, I don't believe that increasing the RoF is the best way to buff machine guns. For one thing, they'd have to redo the animation and sound effects, removing the nifty MG sounds that we have right now.

If they ever get around to adding multiple variants of each weapon from different manufacturers, I'd certainly like to see a minigun-style MG with a higher RoF but a lower overall DPS for more crits and less damage.





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