44 replies to this topic

[Josef Nader]

Z0MBIE Y0SHI, on 11 February 2013 - 06:14 AM, said:

Theres more then one server!?

Don't listen to his heretical lies. There is only one true server.

[Kunae]

Z0MBIE Y0SHI, on 11 February 2013 - 06:14 AM, said:

Theres more then one server!?

Yep. Not discrete ones, from our perspective, but more than one, for sure.

[General Taskeen]

Zerbob, on 11 February 2013 - 06:07 AM, said:

You press the button to initiate MASC which then gives your 'Mech a X% speed boost for a few seconds. Every time you activate MASC you have a Y% chance to become immobile for (I'm just throwing this number out) 5 seconds. Essentially it's the same system for the Ultra AC/5.

I really hope this is a bad joke. Neither MASC or Ultra need random chance in a real-time game.



Also, I'd like to point out that everyone assumes it'll be on every Mech. At this junction no one really knows the Devs plans, but I'm going take an educated guess that MASC will be limited on variants that had it.

Edited by General Taskeen, 11 February 2013 - 06:16 AM.

[Z0MBIE Y0SHI]

Thontor, on 11 February 2013 - 06:14 AM, said:

Yep.

Normal max speed is engine rating divided by mech tonnage times 16.2
Speed with MASC enabled is engine rating divided by mech tonnage times 21.6

Ends up always being 33.33% faster than normal max speed

Wasn't aware of this. I like that value.

[Josef Nader]

Ultras need random jam chance. That's how Ultras work, and that's how they're balanced. They can spit out the most blisteringly painful DPS in the game... if you're willing to put up with the gun just having a fit at the most inopportune times.

It's like the M16 during the Vietnam War, a finicky Prima Donna who likes to have a tantrum the minute she's called to actually do something.

[General Taskeen]

Josef Nader, on 11 February 2013 - 06:17 AM, said:

Ultras need random jam chance. That's how Ultras work, and that's how they're balanced. They can spit out the most blisteringly painful DPS in the game... if you're willing to put up with the gun just having a fit at the most inopportune times.

No it doesn't. Its programmed and featured horribly. Take note of MW:LL Ultra's, no random chance, just 'heat soaking' the barrel. That's how they are balanced properly.

[Mechteric]

I have a potentially good idea, lets take a page from the Ultra Autocannon. When you fire the Ultra AC5 in its "ultra" mode there is a chance of a weapon jam that clears itself out in a few-several seconds.

For MASC the longer you use it (say once you've used it more than 5 seconds within a 30 second time period) there could be a chance that the MASC will disengage and cause your mech to only be able to move at half speed or something for a few-several seconds before it lets you go back to full speed and use MASC again.

Edited by CapperDeluxe, 11 February 2013 - 06:25 AM.

[topgun505]

To the OP, those rules are the old version. If you fail the MASC role the legs no longer freeze, the just take internal damage instead.

[Josef Nader]

General Taskeen, on 11 February 2013 - 06:20 AM, said:

No it doesn't. Its programmed and featured horribly. Take note of MW:LL Ultra's, no random chance, just 'heat soaking' the barrel. That's how they are balanced properly.

No, that's how a mod team decided to balance it and it has little to no relation with how they've functioned in every other depiction of Battletech or Mechwarrior to date.

Ultras have -always- had a jam chance. You're just fortunate that they unjam in Mechwarrior. In Battletech, once the suckers jam, they never un-jam. I've had a Kodiak jam it's Ultra 20 on the first round of combat and spend the rest of the combat running around burning things with it's lasers. It's rather disappointing.

As it stands, a random chance to prevent the gun from working for a few seconds is minor.

[Khobai]

The way MASC should work is the same way Ultra Autocannons should work.

There should be a cooldown bar, similar to the fuel bar for jumpjets, and when you turn on the MASC or fire the ultra autocannons that cooldown bar should decrease, and when that cooldown bar reaches zero you should take either leg internal damage in the case of MASC or the ultra autocannon should start jamming.

And when the system/weapon isnt in use the cooldown bar would recharge over time.

Quote

No it doesn't. Its programmed and featured horribly.

100% agree. Ultra Autocannon implementation is TERRIBLE.

Edited by Khobai, 11 February 2013 - 06:50 AM.

[Z0MBIE Y0SHI]

General Taskeen, on 11 February 2013 - 06:20 AM, said:

Josef Nader, on 11 February 2013 - 06:46 AM, said:

I definetely favor the damage over heat idea to keep it from being rampant. As far as mechs, I think MASC should be exclusive only to certain mechs (Mechs like the DDC don't need anything else)

Right now I'm thinking Awesome, Dragon, all mediums except the A1 (Don't want splatter cats running around at 100KPH), and all lights without missile harpoints. What say the rest of you?

[Roland]

The UAC implementation in this game is the best implementation of the ultra-mode that has existed in any incarnation of MW to date.

Having MASC work like JJ's with a bar that slowly recharges, and either does damage or jams your legs when it's empty seems reasonable to me.

The penalty for using MASC needs to be signficant though... because its advantages are pretty huge.

Edited by Roland, 11 February 2013 - 06:58 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Jules Gonzales, on 11 February 2013 - 05:58 AM, said:

I know you're joking but imagine;

At the start of the game, 2 of your 7 other teammates decide to kick their MASC, and fail. Now you're 6v8 because of 2 immobile mechs.

Yup. Sucks when its your Uber fast Scout stuck back at the cap. Good times. Good times.

[Taurick]

Double the speed, for 3 seconds, after which it generates exponential amounts of heat and can cause a shutdown

[Josef Nader]

Z0MBIE Y0SHI, on 11 February 2013 - 06:57 AM, said:

I definetely favor the damage over heat idea to keep it from being rampant. As far as mechs, I think MASC should be exclusive only to certain mechs (Mechs like the DDC don't need anything else)

Right now I'm thinking Awesome, Dragon, all mediums except the A1 (Don't want splatter cats running around at 100KPH), and all lights without missile harpoints. What say the rest of you?

I might be alright with them limiting MASC by variant. It's working well for some stuff, and anything that adds character to individual chassis is a boon, IMHO.

[jay35]

Z0MBIE Y0SHI, on 11 February 2013 - 05:47 AM, said:

I'm anxious for new equipment, and recently started looking into the MASC, something the davs said they plan to throw in once they're satisfied with the netcode.

But, how would this even work in game? MASC itself is a double edged sword.

They could do it similar to MW4's implementation, which was to have it act like an extra speed boost that could work fine in short bursts, but if left on would start to damage the mech's legs, similar to how overriding an overheating reactor and continuing to do things that generate heat starts to damage you.
This is a much simpler implementation that avoids some coding headaches for the devs and some user experience frustrations for players.
Also, it was primarily available to light and possibly some medium mechs, iirc.

Edited by jay35, 11 February 2013 - 07:25 AM.

[Natasha Kerensky]

General Taskeen, on 11 February 2013 - 06:01 AM, said:

Yeah, exactly.

MW4 also went one step further:



You abuse it, you lose it. Simple.

Do not make this overly complicated PGI, pls take note of MW:LL and MW4. Do not make count downs for this or separate bars. Certain Mechs like Dashers rely on MASC, otherwise they are dead in 1 hit. All it has to be is a matter of watching one's heat buildup (from using it) and pushing it too far (using it during critical over heat) causing malfunction.

I have great respect for MW4. They had to work with a lot of different mechs and items and they did a fine job with that game. That is exactly how MASC should work in this game also. You over use it, you overheat, fall down, and break one of your legs.

Don't reinvent the wheel. If it's too powerful, just balance the time you can use it for.

[Roland]

That implementation in MW4 seems perfectly fine, although I don't have any experience with it.

MW4 didn't actually have MASC in it at all, and that was added very late in the game's life cycle, by a third party. I'm guessing MekTek.

[Tehtos]

Does it have to be a seperate button? How about, when you are at full speed, you can hold accelerate to go up to 133% of your normal max speed? Extra heat and internal damage accrue while above 100% of your normal max speed. Or if you prefer jamming, give it a chance to jam for a few seconds when moving over 100% of normal max speed.

[Kylere]

MASC is pointless until collisions are turned back on.