83 replies to this topic

[UraniumOverdose]

CG Oglethorpe Kerensky, on 14 February 2013 - 05:27 AM, said:

One of the core ideas of Battletech is when you lose your armor over a section, bad things are about to happen in that location. This isn't a game where you are perfectly healthy and functional until you lose your last hit-point and immediately fall dead.

If you think the AC situation makes it too hard to play, wait until Engine and Leg Actuator crits are added in.

Yeah funny how a swayback has to lose it's entire right torso before any of those 6 medium lasers get taken out. The current system is implemented badly and you know it.

[Roland]

I tend to think that the AC20 could stand to have its damage increased, mainly because with the doubling of armor the AC20 has lost part of its appeal... namely, that the AC20 could kill mechs with a single shot (hence it being called the decapitator) all on its own... or shooting a light mech with it would basically rip a limb off every single time.

Increasing the damage of the AC20 to something like 35 would allow it to reclaim it's ability to just RUIN stuff that it hits, which is really the entire point of the gun.

However, without some sort of weaponspread, I can't see how this could possibly work given current game mechanics.. since it'd allow you to bring two of them on a K2, and that mech would then have an alpha of 70 points, which would kill most mechs outright.

Even in TT Battletech, a dual AC20 mech (like the Hunchback IIC, for instance) was basically a killing machine... But in that setting it was unlikely you'd land both shots on the same panel... if you did, then the target was dead, basically no matter what.

The AC20 isn't terrible currently, but it's not quite the mech killer that it was in TT, because it doesn't benefit as much from the fact that it's focusing 20 damage on a single panel. Lots of weapons can do that in MWO, because all your weapons hit the same location.

[Ave Hax]

The ac 20 needs to be the largest visual blast and rock and currently it is the auto 5 blinding you not the 20?
the 5s are combined for visual op and rock death not the 20 ????
i should not be able to go was that gauss or 20 ???\
fix my earthquake sim plz devs

[J4ckInthebox]

the AC/20 is ok, except for one thing: it is way too fragile. it should be a very sturdy and reliable weapon nearly impossible to take down.

[blinkin]

J4ckInthebox, on 14 February 2013 - 11:02 AM, said:

the AC/20 is ok, except for one thing: it is way too fragile. it should be a very sturdy and reliable weapon nearly impossible to take down.

problem with this is then people will complain endlessly about the k2.

catapult k2 is the driving force for most of the changes that have happened to gauss rifle and AC20.

[UraniumOverdose]

People complain about the dual ac20 cat a little too much. It's a one trick wonder just like the splat cat. Stay away from the dual 20 cat, which isn't hard because it's slow, and range it. If the dual 20 cat gets in a bad place, it has no "run away" option because it's slow. If you see a fast one, it likely has little ammo or armor, or both.

[CG Oglethorpe Kerensky]

UraniumOverdose, on 14 February 2013 - 09:31 AM, said:

Yeah funny how a swayback has to lose it's entire right torso before any of those 6 medium lasers get taken out. The current system is implemented badly and you know it.

Wait...
You are saying that it is unfair and wrong that a mech with six compact and separate weapon systems, with the majority of the volume of the area devoted to bulky heat sinks be more resilient than one with a single collossal weapon system that takes up the entire location?

Of course the 4P is going to be more resistant to critical hits, 75% of the internal space it filled with heat sinks and each laser is an independent system. We call that redundancy.

Your AC takes up virtually the entire torso, when your armor is breached and lasers start burning into the internal structure and molten steel comes out, where do you think that metal is coming from? That is your autocannon in liquid form flowing out of your torso.

[UraniumOverdose]

CG Oglethorpe Kerensky, on 14 February 2013 - 11:20 AM, said:

Wait...
You are saying that it is unfair and wrong that a mech with six compact and separate weapon systems, with the majority of the volume of the area devoted to bulky heat sinks be more resilient than one with a single collossal weapon system that takes up the entire location?

Of course the 4P is going to be more resistant to critical hits, 75% of the internal space it filled with heat sinks and each laser is an independent system. We call that redundancy.

Your AC takes up virtually the entire torso, when your armor is breached and lasers start burning into the internal structure and molten steel comes out, where do you think that metal is coming from? That is your autocannon in liquid form flowing out of your torso.

They are bunched up all in one torso, so yes they need to be crit more often. I have a PPC cat that never loses the PPC's before the part of the mech they are on is destroyed. Hell even on my dual UAC5 mech, I almost never lose the UAC5. It's ridiculous and broken and you know it. Put aside your irrational goon hatred of ME and look at the situation. If you can't put aside that ridiculous grudge you goons have against me, then get out of this thread.

[CG Oglethorpe Kerensky]

UraniumOverdose, on 14 February 2013 - 11:43 AM, said:

They are bunched up all in one torso, so yes they need to be crit more often. I have a PPC cat that never loses the PPC's before the part of the mech they are on is destroyed. Hell even on my dual UAC5 mech, I almost never lose the UAC5. It's ridiculous and broken and you know it. Put aside your irrational goon hatred of ME and look at the situation. If you can't put aside that ridiculous grudge you goons have against me, then get out of this thread.

This is the part of the argument where I won't hear you out because I am a goon and we goons are a monolithic entity that hates you, is that about the size of it.

Your PPC cat likely has a weapon less than a third the size of that autocannon, and the torso also has heatsinks in it, doesn't it? So when your PPC cat loses it side armor and a laser starts coring out the torso, the beam could be slicing open a heat sink, maybe a machine gun, maybe even your PPC. The important part here is that there are multiple different components here that can take the damage. As opposed to one massive piece of machinery that stops working if any one part of it fails.

Again, what you really want is Component Armoring, you should be asking the Devs for that.

[MasterGoa]

UraniumOverdose, on 11 February 2013 - 09:09 AM, said:

Hey look it's a goon. Got anything better to do?

Hey look, it's a troll. Got anything better to do?

[StalaggtIKE]

UraniumOverdose, on 14 February 2013 - 11:16 AM, said:

People complain about the dual ac20 cat a little too much. It's a one trick wonder just like the splat cat. Stay away from the dual 20 cat, which isn't hard because it's slow, and range it. If the dual 20 cat gets in a bad place, it has no "run away" option because it's slow. If you see a fast one, it likely has little ammo or armor, or both.

Exactly. I don't even pilot mine anymore, because it's just not worth the cons of low speed, ammo and/or armor. It only thrive in one situation.

[UraniumOverdose]

CG Oglethorpe Kerensky, on 14 February 2013 - 12:02 PM, said:

This is the part of the argument where I won't hear you out because I am a goon and we goons are a monolithic entity that hates you, is that about the size of it.

Your PPC cat likely has a weapon less than a third the size of that autocannon, and the torso also has heatsinks in it, doesn't it? So when your PPC cat loses it side armor and a laser starts coring out the torso, the beam could be slicing open a heat sink, maybe a machine gun, maybe even your PPC. The important part here is that there are multiple different components here that can take the damage. As opposed to one massive piece of machinery that stops working if any one part of it fails.

Again, what you really want is Component Armoring, you should be asking the Devs for that.

Yeah and the PPC has a damage potential far beyond an AC20. If I lose a couple of heat sinks, I can still shoot the PPC. AC20 is gone, or they crit the ammo in which case it explodes. Arguing against this because YOU think AC20 is overpowered because a dual 20 cat head shot you is idiotic. The AC20 is at a disadvantage right now regardless if you believe it or not. Gauss rifle isn't affected by being fragile unless the player brawls with it. Those players that use the gauss rifle for sniping have no issues. The AC20 is a brawling weapon, period. If it isn't good at brawling then it needs to be looked at. If you can't handle a dual 20 cat, you are bad. It has so many weaknesses, NOT INCLUDING EASY TO CRIT MAIN GUNS, it's not even funny.

Again because you seem to not understand or refuse to understand these basic concepts, I must believe you are coming in here talking trash at my ac20 cat just because you are a goon. So yeah my point about you being a goon stands.

Edited by UraniumOverdose, 14 February 2013 - 01:12 PM.

[Roland]

I don't think you really understood what Oglethorpe was saying, based on your response to him Uranium.

[UraniumOverdose]

Roland, on 14 February 2013 - 01:15 PM, said:

I don't think you really understood what Oglethorpe was saying, based on your response to him Uranium.

No I understand what he was saying, my responses are derived from the fact that in this and in other threads he accuses me of "whining" simply because I run a dual ac20 cat sometimes. Considering that I also have 15 other mechs I run, his attitude gets annoying. Considering he is a goon, and they have a history of bothering me in and out of game for no real reason, I can only assume he is trying to troll me. Not surprising considering their reputation in Eve and other games.

[CG Oglethorpe Kerensky]

Roland, on 14 February 2013 - 01:15 PM, said:

I don't think you really understood what Oglethorpe was saying, based on your response to him Uranium.

Thank you Roland.

At this point I am just going to move on, once the discussion hits willfull ignorance then we are sadly at a dead end.

[UraniumOverdose]

Your whole argument is predicated on the dual ac20 cat being overpowered. Until you let that (wrong) opinion go, you aren't adding anything to this discussion anyway.

[DocBach]

I posted a couple responses to UraniumOD's other suggestions for making larger items more durable - pretty much, there are additional rules from expansions like Tactical Operations that make it more difficult for larger items to be destroyed by critical hits. A bunch of debuffs like decreased range or damage, increased heat or reload time, ect could be inflicted on weapons as they got damaged. You could have your 20, but it'll be suffering performance and a lucky hit could still take it out.

[blinkin]

UraniumOverdose, on 15 February 2013 - 08:21 AM, said:

Your whole argument is predicated on the dual ac20 cat being overpowered. Until you let that (wrong) opinion go, you aren't adding anything to this discussion anyway.

don't know the history between you two. don't really care.

his reasons for posting should not matter. all that matters is the arguments he is making. if you think he is wrong then explain why you think that. if you have already explained and don't want to retype a bunch of crap you already said then quote those statements directly into your responses, i do it all the time and it tends to be very effective.

what i am seeing here only makes you seem childish and willfully ignorant.

[Jess Hazen]

Autocannons need a chance to knocks down targets.

[blinkin]

Jess Hazen, on 15 February 2013 - 11:52 PM, said:

Autocannons need a chance to knocks down targets.

if they do this then i think they also need recoil associated with mech size. i don't want a single catapult k2 disabling whole teams.