13 replies to this topic

[Poisoner]

I am tired of getting stuck on teams when I pug with an Atlas who gets 15 damage or the K2 that gets 11.

[Havyek]

[Iwaslost]

BDU Havoc, on 11 February 2013 - 01:00 PM, said:

That feel bro. That feel.

[SPencil]

I can't wait for people to stop complaining.

Oh wait, that's not gonna happen.

Edited by SPencil, 11 February 2013 - 01:06 PM.

[Poisoner]

BDU Havoc, on 11 February 2013 - 01:00 PM, said:

Heh, I'm a good pilot so I won't be stuck with suicide farmers.

[Particle Man]

here's a preview
http://youtu.be/qj8kMmUxkSE

[Karl Franz]

Don't know much about how ELO works, so I don't get what Havoc posted. Plizzz explain

I agree with Poisoner.

Edited by Karl Franz, 11 February 2013 - 01:09 PM.

[akaChrisHimself]

I don't think this Elo person is going to do anything...

[KharnZor]

BDU Havoc, on 11 February 2013 - 01:00 PM, said:

Iwaslost, on 11 February 2013 - 01:05 PM, said:

That feel bro. That feel.

LOL

[Superslicks]

Yes someone explain to me what Elo is, realy havnt been following the forums as much as id like too

[TheRulesLawyer]

Karl Franz, on 11 February 2013 - 01:08 PM, said:

Don't know much about how ELO works, so I don't get what Havoc posted. Plizzz explain

I agree with Poisoner.

ELO is a skill rating system in which the change to your rating is based on the statistic chance of beating another player based on their rank. Simply the further apart your ranks is, the more your rank changes when you defeat them/are defeated.

[Raalic]

Elo is a freaking w/l ratio-based ranking system, essentially, and it's not an acronym. Stop calling it ELO. Actually, let's just lower the overall pretentiousness of the word, and just call it a damn ladder.

[MoonUnitBeta]

TheRulesLawyer, on 11 February 2013 - 01:23 PM, said:

ELO is a skill rating system in which the change to your rating is based on the statistic chance of beating another player based on their rank. Simply the further apart your ranks is, the more your rank changes when you defeat them/are defeated.

Is it by player or by team?
My understanding was that if your ELO rating is say, 1500, and you're put against a team that has avg 1750 and the match maker makes the probability that the other team is going to win and it's your team that does, your ELO rating will increase, and their's will decline. -I THINK.-

I'm not sure exactly how your ELO rating is calculated from your stats, but I do know that the matchmaker creates it's own probability about which team is going to win and if you beat that probability then you will increase in ELO rating.

[EDIT]From the Command Chair:
http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__1626065

Quote

Match Maker – Phase 3 – Update

Summary:
Phase 3 incorporates a variation of Elo and is undergoing testing against the telemetry data the servers have been providing us. Below is how Elo calculations are being processed and giving us an indication of how Match Making Phase 3 will match players of relatively even skill against one another.

Figure 1In Figure 1, you will notice the highest score a player can have is 2800. The lowest score a player can have is 0. When a player first starts playing MWO, they are assigned an Elo score of 1,300.

The maximum amount a player’s score can change in a single match is ±50.

One of the key calculations that needs to be done is to determine the probability of a lower ranked player beating a higher ranked player.

An example of this is, if two players of the same ranking have a 50% chance of winning each. The bigger the gap between the two player’s scores, the less probability of the lower score player beating the higher scored player.


Figure 2A player’s new rating, after a match is complete, is calculated using the probability value determined in Figure 1’s formula. In Figure 2, we take a look at a sample of how a player’s score changes between matches.

In the example, one player has a rating of 1,350. Another player has a rating of 1,410.

The first step is to calculate the probability of the 1,350 rated player beating the 1,410 rated player. The rating difference between the two players is found by subtracting the lower player score from the higher player score. In this case it’s 1410 – 1350. There is a difference of 60 points between the two players.

Filling in the formula from Figure 1, we find that the 1,350 rated player has a 0.41 probability of winning (or 41% chance). This is where Elo starts to determine the outcome of a match and the result of player scores after the match is complete.


Figure 3

We now use the probability value of 0.41 to determine the change in player ratings.


Case 1: 1350 Player WINS over 1410 Player

Since the lower rated player won despite the odds against him/her, they are rewarded a much higher change in score than the higher player is. The higher player score will actually be reduced.

One variable that is set by winning or losing is the WinFlag (as seen in Figure 3). The WinFlag is a binary (true/false) value of either 1 (Player has won) or 0 (Player has lost). In this case, the WinFlag value is 1.

Let’s begin the calculation:

Old Rating = 1350
Maximum Change Allowed = +50 for a win, -50 for a loss (as seen in Figure 1)
WinFlag = 1
Probability of Winning = 0.41

1350 Players new ranking = 1350 + 50 x (1 – 0.41)
= 1380

1410 Players new ranking = 1410 – 50 x (1 – 0.41)
= 1381

A player’s rating will only go down if they are beaten by a player who has a lower rating than theirs. In this case, if the 1350 player lost, their score would not change since the Match Maker was correct in its prediction.

So how does this affect Match Making – Phase 3?

This formula and scoring system is run against match data that the current dedicated servers are giving us. Basically it’s being tested on real world numbers generated by you, the community.

Once we get a full understanding of how accurately the Match Maker is working, we are going to add some additional parameters to the mix. These include a more defined player skill rating and a Mech weight class balancing system. More info on these when the first pass of Elo testing is done.


CLARIFICATION:

I've been asked to clarify the Elo system above. It makes sense for a single player but not for teams. Does a player on 1 team get rated against a player that he beat on the other team?

Here's how a team works:

At the start of a match, all player's on ONE team have their Elo ratings totaled and divided by 8 (max players). You may realized that this is simply the AVERAGE of a team's total Elo. Team 1's average and Team 2's average are then used to calculate the probability of win (as per the formulas above). If Team 1 beats Team 2, then the appropriate math as above is applied to each player using the probability score calculated by the team averages.

Some people also asked to have the description simplified. Here's the summary:

• The Match Maker uses a scoring system to determine if your team is more likely to win or lose based on your team's average Elo rating.
  
• If the Match Maker determines that you're going to lose, but you actually win, then your Elo score is going to go up and the enemy's score is going to go down.
  
• If the Match Maker determines that you're going to win and you actually win, then your Elo score isn't going to change very much (if at all). The same applies to a prediction of loss and you actually lose, your score may drop but it will be slight.
  
• The more games you participate in, the more accurate the Match Maker becomes and you will start seeing that you are playing against people of relative equal skill.

Edited by MoonUnitBeta, 11 February 2013 - 01:33 PM.

[MischiefSC]

Elo is going to drop you with and against players of your own approximate skill. It will be GLORIOUS.

Here is what's going to happen:

1. All the teams who have been pug-farming to imp their stats will suddenly find themselves only able to drop against competitive, hardcore teams who will destroy them again and again and again and again and again. Their win/loss rates will drop to about 20 or 30% wins until they average out against people of their own skill level at which point they'll end up with about a 50/50 win/loss rate.

2. All the hardcore competitive teams will start sync-dropping to end up in groups of 8/12 because that's going to be the only way to even keep up. They will still keep a pretty good win/loss rate because they will actually be good against other good teams. They'll never play against Pugs again.

3. Skilled pugs will ascend into a glorious heaven. They will drop with other skilled pugs and friend-filled premades who will all be generally focused on teamwork and pulling your weight. When you say 'lets go right' everyone will, in fact, go right.

4. Rambos, lone wolves who hunt by night and always go the opposite direction, the sort of people who firmly believe the problem is that everyone else on their team is terrible and that's why they lose, they'll all end up feeding on the bottom and raging. You think they are complaining now wait until they end up essentially always being on teams together. Their QQing will know no bounds and whole new maps will have to be made to control the flow of their rivers of tears. Terrible players will in fact be on teams full of other terrible players.

5. Newbies will actually drop about the middle where average players are, thus learning some good skills out of the gate but never running into uber squads of VOIP teams focusing fire on the new mech paint jobs.


As your skills improve so will the caliber of people you both play against and WITH. The value of this can not be underestimated. There will be a layer of elite pugs playing at the team-drop level who will probably be the single most talented players in the game. VOIP teams will likely rank higher on Elo but in terms of individual skill these people will be the most skilled players around.

It will be glorious. The promise of 02/19/2013 is the only thing keeping me slogging through the game as it is right now.