23 replies to this topic

[ElLocoMarko]

For my next mech I am directly comparing the Cataphract 3D and the Catapult K2 as dual gauss sniper-brawlers.

I made a test build for each find that I have completely equivalent loadouts and foot speed when I allocate the extra capacity of the Cataphract to jump jets (4).

So which do I choose: K2 with those nice high well-protected torso mounts or the 3D with jump ability?

[Stringburka]

Had a 3D. Tried dualgauss. My suggestion: Go with the K2.
You need an XL engine. The drawback with XL engine is that all your torsos are critical to you. Any damage to any torso is a Big Deal. Gausses blow up easily. Any damage to a Gauss in an arm or a torso is a Big Deal. Having large, easily hit side torsos is a Big Deal - and when you have explosive weapons in your _arms_, so is damage to the arms.

As soon as someone realized I used gauss in my 3D, they'd fire on my arm. As soon as they got through armor (and CTF arms are easily hit) the gauss blew up, damaging side torso and blowing up the other gauss, both damaging the torso and killing me. This meant that most of the time, my whole torso AND my right arm where critical locations for me, and even minor damage to my right side killed me dead.

K2's have much harder to hit side torsos (as in, a LOT harder to hit) and if one gauss goes you have a slight chance to survive and still have a gauss left.

[ElLocoMarko]

Stringburka, on 11 February 2013 - 01:14 PM, said:

Had a 3D. Tried dualgauss. My suggestion: Go with the K2.
You need an XL engine. The drawback with XL engine is that all your torsos are critical to you. Any damage to any torso is a Big Deal. Gausses blow up easily. Any damage to a Gauss in an arm or a torso is a Big Deal. Having large, easily hit side torsos is a Big Deal - and when you have explosive weapons in your _arms_, so is damage to the arms.

As soon as someone realized I used gauss in my 3D, they'd fire on my arm. As soon as they got through armor (and CTF arms are easily hit) the gauss blew up, damaging side torso and blowing up the other gauss, both damaging the torso and killing me. This meant that most of the time, my whole torso AND my right arm where critical locations for me, and even minor damage to my right side killed me dead.

K2's have much harder to hit side torsos (as in, a LOT harder to hit) and if one gauss goes you have a slight chance to survive and still have a gauss left.

That is a compelling argument. Dang, I wanted to fly.
Yeah... It's a K2 for sniping and I can jump around later with the other catapult builds.

Back of envelope calculations say that if I wanted to make a flying PPC cataphract 3D (mech + Endo + DHS + big XL = 17.6 million?)
For the K2 I can make it work with my existing XL280 - it is almost FREE (probably mech + endo = 6.1 million).

[Hex Pallett]

Ilya. End of story.

[Stringburka]

The Ilya is probably a great choice if you want to pay real life money, yeah.

[ElLocoMarko]

I've got the Ilya... done with it and want something new like jump jets or a different chassis.

[Hex Pallett]

No. There's no JJ on K2.

[RickySpanish]

Ilya

280XL
2 x Gauss
3 x MLAS

on you go son.

[Bogus]

I think either way will work, depending on what attributes you value, but 4X/Ilya is IMO a better gausser than 3D as you don't have to worry about arm and torso being out of alignment. A phract has more tonnage and thus more room for ammo, better engine, less expensive upgrades, etc. but the weapon placement is awkward; do not discount the K2's ability to fire while still under partial cover. The K2 is also generally faster and less prone to losing side torsos.

Personally I'd take the K2 unless I wanted Ilya's cash bonus or room to experiment with other ballistic fits. 4X is a lot of fun but it's a mediocre gausser.

[Ryft]

K2 has my recommendation, for the same reasons that Stringburka mentioned.

You can also manage a gauss K2 with a 200 standard with CASE alternative option. It's not that speedy, but I've finished a couple of matches after losing a side torso to opposing snipers and still being alive to deploy the second gauss.

Other sniper options include 3 or 4 PPC on the K2, with those nice high arm mounts for shooting over hill crests.

[Stringburka]

Also note torso twist. While not relevant to the sniping itself, when those lights try to get you there's a huge difference between 90/120 degrees and 140 degrees, especially since you have 140 degrees with both gauss while the CTF has 120 with only one and the other is stuck at 90.

This is important if you try to run to your teammates when the lights are trying to get you, since a CTF has to pretty much choose between slowing down to be able to turn fast enough to try to hit/supress the lights or to just run as fast as it can taking damage to it's back all the time, while the K2 can run at full speed and lay down suppressing fire at the same time, not to mention torso twist to minimize damage to vulnerable parts.

[Evil Ed]

Gauss-4X gets my vote, simply because everyone knows about the Gauss-K2. With the 4X one can inflict alot more damage before enemies realizes what's hitting them. With this build I fire some shoots early in the game before countersniping starts, then move up closer to friendlies and take the second line support role. Try to move pretty close to Atlas/Stalkers as they tend to get all the attention.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...e68030e9e445139

[Stingz]

Stringburka, on 12 February 2013 - 04:10 AM, said:

Also note torso twist. While not relevant to the sniping itself, when those lights try to get you there's a huge difference between 90/120 degrees and 140 degrees, especially since you have 140 degrees with both gauss while the CTF has 120 with only one and the other is stuck at 90.

Even more important is pitch, I love jump jetting in-front of gauss-cats. They can't aim very high with torso-mounted weapons.

[John MatriX82]

I place Ilya and K2 on the same level, then a CTF 4X. I don't consider 3D, since you're forced to hold a gun in the torso and the other in the arm, resulting in some weird management for weapon convergence.

Ilya: good to shoot to targets above you; if they are located under you, it's necessary to expose the whole mech in order to shoot (the arms are really low) but at the same time this isn't something you can do with the K2's coaxial hardpoints. Cons: weapon convergence often screws up many shots. Other cons are the need for an XL engine (either 300 or 280) so getting side torsoed is easy.

K2: weapon convergence is better and more stable, although you don't have much yaw if you fire to targets above or below you. You'll need a slow engine but your side torsoes are much more protected, and counter-balanced by the easiness of being headshotted.. low armor on the arms and such however make you a glass mech as soon as one of the two gauss blow up, while in the Ilya you can most of the times safely lose one arm and survive it.

4X: cheap version of the Ilya, slower (max 255 xl) with the same drawbacks. The Ilya or the K2 imho are superior for dual gaussing, but it can be done with some more short range backup weapons (SRM4 and dual Mlas).

[Bagua]

ElLocoMarko, on 11 February 2013 - 01:08 PM, said:

So which do I choose: K2 with those nice high well-protected torso mounts or the 3D with jump ability?

I liked the idea of a jumping dual Gauss sniper and I used both mechs as Gauss platforms for a while.
But for my taste the 3D lost too much of its mobility with this setup. Two Gauss are far to heavy.
Nowerdays, since Gauss-Rifels explode it is a bad idea to pack them together at the same location with a XL engine (CASE does not help).

Maybe you should consider to take ERPPCs for a jump-sniper. The mech can cool down during the fall and when you wait until the JJ are fully recharged.

Right now I am running this CTF-4X build and like it very much. Alternativly this CTF-4X might be better suited for solo playing to fend of nasty lights.

The Gauss-Rifels are arm mounted at the 4X, so you do not get screwed when a Gauss blows up. On the other side arm mounted weapons do not make good sniper weapons because they are at suboptimal height for this task.
You have to step out of cover and expose the whole upper body of the mech and the firing angle is suboptimal in many situations.

Edit:
ninja'd

Edited by Bagua, 12 February 2013 - 05:53 AM.

[UnseenFury]

Dual Gauss is past news, boys.

N0w 1f u pr0 y0u us3 g4u$$2ppcs 4jj 3d.

Don't tell anyone I told you.

[1453 R]

Want a dual Gauss sniper nobody'll see coming?

Then try a Cicada

FORTY TONS OF 'MECH.

THIRTY TONS OF GUN.

HIGHEST GUN TO 'MECH RATIO IN HUMAN HISTORY.

Your opponents will never expect it. Your allies will never believe it. Your friends will never respect it.

Get your GaussBug today.

Edited by 1453 R, 12 February 2013 - 06:55 AM.

[ElLocoMarko]

RickySpanish, on 11 February 2013 - 09:05 PM, said:

Ilya

280XL
2 x Gauss
3 x MLAS

on you go son.

Done exactly that for a couple weeks. The low firing point is annoying which is where my hope of jump jets or Catapult high torso mounts came from.

1453 R, on 12 February 2013 - 06:29 AM, said:

Want a dual Gauss sniper nobody'll see coming?

Then try a Cicada

FORTY TONS OF 'MECH.

THIRTY TONS OF GUN.

HIGHEST GUN TO 'MECH RATIO IN HUMAN HISTORY.

Your opponents will never expect it. Your allies will never believe it. Your friends will never respect it.

Get your GaussBug today.

LOVE the sales pitch!
Tried this a few weeks ago... It was fun but I felt like I was hurting my team by playing a weak build. You have to shoot and move , shoot and move (like a real sniper HOORAY!) to keep from getting counter-sniped but it means that the battle ends and you used like 1 ton of ammo and did not influence the outcome at all.

Helmstif, on 11 February 2013 - 04:17 PM, said:

No. There's no JJ on K2.

which is why I said this... "Yeah... It's a K2 for sniping and I can jump around later with the other catapult variants." (yeah, I fixed a spelling error in that quote... I seemed to have misspelled "variant" as "build")

Bagua, on 12 February 2013 - 05:15 AM, said:

...

Maybe you should consider to take ERPPCs for a jump-sniper. The mech can cool down during the fall and when you wait until the JJ are fully recharged.

...
...4X Gauss in arms ...
...
ninja'd

I hear you on the low firing point of the arm Gauss. Discovered that with the CTF-IM.

The Gauss/PPC CTF 3D looks really fun but it is going to cost me almost the same as three base catapults. (that 3D needs a 300XL that I don't own for the extra in-engine heat sink and I end up buying a 280XL in the base mech that I don't need and already own from a CTF-IM)

I know it isn't in their plans but they should sell stripped chassis as well. I almost never need the engine they include nor the weapons.

Edited by ElLocoMarko, 12 February 2013 - 08:24 AM.

[SniperCzar]

1453 R, on 12 February 2013 - 06:29 AM, said:

Want a dual Gauss sniper nobody'll see coming?

Then try a Cicada

FORTY TONS OF 'MECH.

THIRTY TONS OF GUN.

HIGHEST GUN TO 'MECH RATIO IN HUMAN HISTORY.

Your opponents will never expect it. Your allies will never believe it. Your friends will never respect it.

Get your GaussBug today.

That... that's beautiful.

And I thought my gauss builds were excessive.

[Golfin Man]

I shred in my dual gauss 3D. Also instead of using the extra tonnage for JJ put on 4 med lasers for ammo free killshots and lights. A common build I would imagine but someone I play with ran this and was so dominant I had to buy one, even though I had the other three phracts already. I think Im just biased towards phracts in general

Edited by Golfin Man, 12 February 2013 - 12:56 PM.