18 replies to this topic

[Manthony Higgs]

Ingame, if one player detects an enemy, his entire lance can then see it, correct? If so, that means every 'Mech is equipped with a C3 Network computer, which weren't introduced 'till 3050. Anyone else notice this?

[Redshift2k5]

It was said that the transmission of enemy location in the HUD (As seen the the Assault breakdown, and others) would later be delegated to being based on having the correct modules installed.

Presumably if we ever see C3 units in-game they would bring a more powerful type of data transmission.

Edited by Redshift2k5, 27 May 2012 - 02:38 PM.

[Manthony Higgs]

Ah, okay. So only certain 'Mechs have the modules that shouldn't exist yet?

[Redshift2k5]

modules are not the same thing as C3. In fact so far modules aren't in-game, but you can see an early preliminary list of some things modules might do in a Dev blog
http://mwomercs.com/...e-warfare-cont/

There is a little bit of re-inventing the wheel going on, where some modules do some of the things that a C3 unit does. Modules are a new addition to the game created for MWO, and yes, they are divergent from the lore. Many Mechwarrior computer games have added new things.

[Phelan Kerensky]

Indeed, from what I recall it is based mostly on the Commander and Scout and their modules. It also has something to do with the modules of the other lance mates. Don't take me 100% on this though as I am not sure of it myself...

[Rofleupagus]

I mean without that how would being a light mech be viable? If you arent spotting for your team? How else could you stay in the lore and make this happen? If ya find a way you should totally tell them. I dont know all Battletech info myself so hook em up with an idea.

Edited by Rofleupagus, 27 May 2012 - 02:57 PM.

[Thomas Hogarth]

Manthony Higgs, on 27 May 2012 - 02:35 PM, said:

Ingame, if one player detects an enemy, his entire lance can then see it, correct? If so, that means every 'Mech is equipped with a C3 Network computer, which weren't introduced 'till 3050. Anyone else notice this?

No. C3 affects only targeting. Under double-blind rules, if one member of a force obtains LOS on a enemy, the entire force gains that knowledge.

[edit]
LRM targeting out of LOS with another 'Mech providing targeting data is under the "spotting" rule. Again, separate from C3.

Edited by Thomas Hogarth, 27 May 2012 - 03:01 PM.

[Redshift2k5]

I would imagine there would be in-game communication (text or text plus voice) allowing you to relate where you saw an enemy and what they were doing.

in MWLL a good team will relay a lot of enemy positions, even when there are no C3 equipped units in the field.

Teamwork!

[Felicitatem Parco]

EDITED FOR DEGREE-OF-CERTAINTY

Several good points were brought up here:

• Some features they are Beta testing can be made more- or less-available to common players as they so choose after Launch
  
• C3 computers do share targeting data, so a Scout with C3 can get a Target Lock on a target, and his Lancemate with a Catapult will suddenly find himself with a nice target-lock on that enemy
  
• Once a teammate has "line of sight" on the enemy, then the whole team gets positional updates.
  
• BatleTech Equipment and Modules are separate things, but sometimes they might have overlapping properties

Edited by Prosperity Park, 27 May 2012 - 03:11 PM.

[Redshift2k5]

Prosperity Park, on 27 May 2012 - 03:02 PM, said:

Several good points were brought up here:

• Some features they are Beta testing can be made more- or less-available to common players as they so choose after Launch
  
• C3 computers do share targeting data, so a Scout with C3 can get a Missile Lock on a target, and his lancemate with a Catapult will suddenly find himeself with a nice target-lock on that enemy
  
• BatleTech equipment and MOdules are seperate things, but sometimes they might have overlapping properties

Do C3s actually share missile locks in some versions of the setting? That's pretty cool, and would certainly be a feature that sets them apart from the enemy position relay we've seen in the breakdown videos.

[Kenyon Burguess]

without some sort of visual aid the majority of players would just zerg into the center of the map for a free for all rampage. by allowing a basic transfer of data between the lancemates without a c3 cost the game can have some command structure happening.

[Felicitatem Parco]

Redshift2k5, on 27 May 2012 - 03:04 PM, said:

Do C3s actually share missile locks in some versions of the setting?

Sorry, I should not have said that, that was my mistake. It's been edited in my post.

Getting a "Target Lock" is different from a Missile Lock. Missile-Lock means it'll home yer missiles in, but a Target Lock is merely the red box that glows around them and lets you track them around and read their damage profile n' stuff.

I have no way of knowing what degree of "lockness" you can achieve with the C3 system.

Edited by Prosperity Park, 27 May 2012 - 03:15 PM.

[Insidious Johnson]

I thought a Kerfluffle was a crunchy yet fluffy waffle. I'm here with my fork dammit, there better be maple syrup.

[Felicitatem Parco]

[Phirric]

wasnt there a mention of indirect fire as well? if a scout spots an enemy mech support mechs should be able to target the red dot instead of the mech meaning less hits but still coming away with something.
I may well be missing something though.

[Xaks]

Plus, IIRC, there was also a difference in canon with being able to see/scan an enemy (target lock), get remote or indirect targeting (TAG, or a spotting laser of some sort), and being able to target and missile lock as if you were the closer mech.

Meaning, in heavy woods from across the map, your light could be three hexes away from him and, with C3, you could fire as if you were also three hexes away, regardless. TAG or TC's and whatnot would allow remote targeting, but you had to use YOUR range to calculate the to-hit roll.

Something like that anyways. Someone that has tabletopped more recently than I will have to chime in on this one.

[CaveMan]

Manthony Higgs, on 27 May 2012 - 02:35 PM, said:

Ingame, if one player detects an enemy, his entire lance can then see it, correct? If so, that means every 'Mech is equipped with a C3 Network computer, which weren't introduced 'till 3050. Anyone else notice this?

That isn't what C3 does.

I'm not sure how they're going to go about implementing C3, but in the boardgame it gives you the benefit of targeting an enemy as though you were as close as the closest unit in your network.

[Rajen]

Apache Longbows can do this now, by relaying targetting data digitally to the rest of the group/troup/squadron/whatever. I'm sure that the Devs can make scouting a viable role. I agree about the C3...master modules are on the scout and command mechs, while C3 slaves are equipped in all lancemate mechs. C3 not being rediscovered (it's Lostech, afaik) until the data from the Gray Geath Memory Core gets analyzed and weaponized.

Scouting can work, imho.

[Squidhead Jax]

CaveMan, on 27 May 2012 - 03:53 PM, said:

That isn't what C3 does.

I'm not sure how they're going to go about implementing C3, but in the boardgame it gives you the benefit of targeting an enemy as though you were as close as the closest unit in your network.

So it sounds like the info- and position-sharing that general module functionality seems to imply is not, in fact, replicating the C3's functionality?

Don't see a problem then.

I've only actually played in the setting in computer games, so I'm not offhandedly familiar with the tabletop's fiddly bits. But I think we should remember that MWO is closest to a real-time tank sim, like the prior MechWarrior games, while the original Battletech is a turn-based tactics game. Even if the game has 100% fidelity to the existing fluff text of the lore (which is not always necessary or desirable in an adaptation) its gameplay expression will necessarily be different. Even the gameplay expression of the tabletop has changed over time.

Edited by Squidhead Jax, 27 May 2012 - 04:16 PM.