111 replies to this topic

[PropagandaWar]

Raalic, on 14 February 2013 - 09:19 AM, said:

How do you suggest LRMs and SSRMs be fixed?

Streaks should still miss. However with less of a chance and bring the damage down to 1 per missle. All that electronics should reduce firepower. Lrm's are fine.

[Taemien]

I have to disagree on the fact that LRMs have no skill. There's really only two ways to use them:

1. Have Line of Sight. This is dangerous because you cannot simply lock, fire, and get the hell out of dodge, you have to maintain the lock until the missiles hit. Doing this and avoiding return fire is much harder than using a ER Large Laser since you can pop out fire and return.

2. Have a friend spot for you. This is the one requiring 'less' skill. However this requires teamwork. You're effectively being 2v1'd. And it requires the spotter to expose themselves until the salvos hit. Usually the spotter is a light mech, making their job even riskier.

As for streaks, you just got to avoid the lock. If they fire, you're getting hit and failed to avoid the lock. Duck behind buildings and the like. If you're bigger and slower, just take the missiles, its no more then a few medium lasers hitting, cept they can't aim the things. Yes they are going for the center mast, but you can turn an arm towards it to be hit instead, where as a laser you've been hit before you can react normally.

I'll be honest, streaks haven't been an issue for me, even without ECM. The most threatening weapons in the game to me is the Large Laser and Medium Laser. But I don't see a problem with that.

[Kunae]

Taemien, on 14 February 2013 - 09:34 AM, said:

As for streaks, you just got to avoid the lock. If they fire, you're getting hit and failed to avoid the lock. Duck behind buildings and the like. If you're bigger and slower, just take the missiles, its no more then a few medium lasers hitting, cept they can't aim the things. Yes they are going for the center mast, but you can turn an arm towards it to be hit instead, where as a laser you've been hit before you can react normally.

I'll be honest, streaks haven't been an issue for me, even without ECM. The most threatening weapons in the game to me is the Large Laser and Medium Laser. But I don't see a problem with that.

Pretty obvious that you don't play a light.

[Tennex]

Kunae, on 14 February 2013 - 09:35 AM, said:

Pretty obvious that you don't play a light.

my thoughts exactly lol. run a non ECM raven for a day.

have fun.

[KuruptU4Fun]

Ok, if you're upset about ECM vs. LRM/SSRM capabilities then I simply ask you this question:

Where is ECM stored as a critical slot in each of the various ECM mechs?

Since the reduction in the component has been realistically reduced you can shoot at that portion of the mech and destroy it's ECM. Where previously I do not believe that was even a possibility if you destroyed that portion of the torso. Then opening up the mech to direct LRM/SSRM targeting.

Guys, go with the reality that there will be NO hard changes to the ECM itself. But several soft counters to it are in place or on their way shortly. At least come to terms with that UNTIL PGI states they are altering the ECM itself.

[Tikkamasala]

Orzorn, on 14 February 2013 - 09:33 AM, said:

I know exactly how to do it, but will not disclose that information in this thread. As I said, several people already were using it the self same day I discovered it.

The worst part? I told Thomas about it, and he had not heard of it, nor was it a reported issue. Those players I saw using it were outright exploiting it without reporting it. Disgusting.

Someone wrote a post about it (or something very similar) a couple of days ago and i guess it wasn't news back then.

[Orzorn]

I don't believe LRMs are fine. They do 1.8 damage per missile. Quite a wallop. But their speed is pathetic. 100 m/s means, even at their original max range of 600 or so meters, it takes 6 seconds to strike.

Raise their speed to 150 m/s, so that 600 meters would only take 4 seconds. Reduce their damage by 0.1. This makes them deal less damage theoretically, but the odds of them actually hitting, especially while dumbfired (which is what so many LRMs have been reduced to because of ECM), will be increased. This makes LRMs more reliable, and less ridiculous once you actually strike (an LRM 20 will do 38 damage currently. It would do 36 damage with my change. Not a huge change).

I just don't think that LRMs are fine when even at their intended range they take until Christmas to strike.

[PropagandaWar]

Kunae, on 14 February 2013 - 09:26 AM, said:

No, they need to be removed completely. No "fix" will balance them to everyone's satisfaction.

I dont think they should be removed. Im also looking at the future streaks. 4's and 6s will own the battlefield and any fast ecm missle mech will be next to unstoppable unless you counter it with the same. So again I think it should be less damage with a chance to miss. In fact make them guided by your whereever they are locateed (Arms/Torso) so if your off the target half a second later so are they.

[Azru]

Kaldor, on 14 February 2013 - 09:23 AM, said:

Yes.

But have you tried holding a TAG on a fast moving light at any range? Against a big as a barn DDC, you can do it, but lights, forget about it.

I have all the time when I'm in my stalker 3f. It is just so much fun to see a commander or raven running out in the open thinking no one sees em til they hear Betty and then panic. Though I believe those were the bad light pilots and have since moved on to the splat cats.

[Z0MBIE Y0SHI]

I'd rather SSRM4's and 6's didn't make it in the game

[Kunae]

PropagandaWar, on 14 February 2013 - 09:39 AM, said:

I dont think they should be removed. Im also looking at the future streaks. 4's and 6s will own the battlefield and any fast ecm missle mech will be next to unstoppable unless you counter it with the same. So again I think it should be less damage with a chance to miss. In fact make them guided by your whereever they are locateed (Arms/Torso) so if your off the target half a second later so are they.

That's a major reason I think they should be removed. CSSRM6's will be beyond OP.

A1 with 6xCSSRM6's: 90pt auto-hit alpha.

1-shot lights.
2-shot meds and some heavies.
3-shot heavies and assaults.

Just remove them and this problem goes away.

[Gregore]

I think streaks could be fixed a little by just making it so that once you fire them you it breaks lock and you have to relock to fire again.

This would promote use of the BAP, and make it so that ssrm users don't just get a lock and just have to keep you on their screen to keep the lock.

[KuruptU4Fun]

Kunae, on 14 February 2013 - 09:42 AM, said:

That's a major reason I think they should be removed. CSSRM6's will be beyond OP.

A1 with 6xCSSRM6's: 90pt auto-hit alpha.

1-shot lights.
2-shot meds and some heavies.
3-shot heavies and assaults.

Just remove them and this problem goes away.

I'd almost bet that the way those get balanced is very long reload times or their range is severely reduced as you go from 2's to 4's to 6's.

[Taemien]

Kunae, on 14 February 2013 - 09:35 AM, said:

Pretty obvious that you don't play a light.

I do play a non-ECM light. My 4 Medium Pulse Laser Jenner will tear a 3L to shreds.

[Tennex]

Gregore, on 14 February 2013 - 09:43 AM, said:

I think streaks could be fixed a little by just making it so that once you fire them you it breaks lock and you have to relock to fire again.

This would promote use of the BAP, and make it so that ssrm users don't just get a lock and just have to keep you on their screen to keep the lock.

agreed. and lockon timer would need to be a lot shorter for sSRMs. since a lock is required to fire each time.

[Orzorn]

KuruptU4Fun, on 14 February 2013 - 09:36 AM, said:

Ok, if you're upset about ECM vs. LRM/SSRM capabilities then I simply ask you this question:

Where is ECM stored as a critical slot in each of the various ECM mechs?

Since the reduction in the component has been realistically reduced you can shoot at that portion of the mech and destroy it's ECM. Where previously I do not believe that was even a possibility if you destroyed that portion of the torso. Then opening up the mech to direct LRM/SSRM targeting.

Its a nice thought, but most of the mechs running ECM are lights with XL engines, who often store the ECM in their side torso anyways. They're very likely to die before their ECM is even destroyed, or die shortly thereafter from the fire that wasn't missiles anyways.

[Tikkamasala]

Remove the ssrms guidance system. In TT they still need a pilot check, don't they?
Light vs light mech battles are way too one-dimensional with guided low weight missiles.

[Orzorn]

Gregore, on 14 February 2013 - 09:43 AM, said:

I think streaks could be fixed a little by just making it so that once you fire them you it breaks lock and you have to relock to fire again.

This would promote use of the BAP, and make it so that ssrm users don't just get a lock and just have to keep you on their screen to keep the lock.

How would it promote BAP? BAP doesn't increase missile lock speed, only target info gain.

[KuruptU4Fun]

Orzorn, on 14 February 2013 - 09:46 AM, said:

Its a nice thought, but most of the mechs running ECM are lights with XL engines, who often store the ECM in their side torso anyways. They're very likely to die before their ECM is even destroyed, or die shortly thereafter from the fire that wasn't missiles anyways.

So you achieve the same goal either way, by destroying the ECM or the mech itself. Allowing LRM's and SSRM's to be used accordingly.

Tikkamasala, on 14 February 2013 - 09:47 AM, said:

Remove the ssrms guidance system. In TT they still need a pilot check, don't they?
Light vs light mech battles are way too one-dimensional with guided low weight missiles.

Tikka this isn't TT, SSRM's are a guaranteed hit to LT/CT/RT. All you need is a short time to lock on.

If L v L battles are one dimensional that would mean M v M/ H v H/ A v A all suffer from the same problem.

[KuruptU4Fun]

Orzorn, on 14 February 2013 - 09:47 AM, said:

How would it promote BAP? BAP doesn't increase missile lock speed, only target info gain.

What's funny Orzorn is people do not realize that, they think it's a valid argument to include in a BAP is useless or BAP vs. ECM debate. I can run BAP and a sensor module on a LRM boat or a scout and acquire a targets info faster than most people can gain a base lockon.