111 replies to this topic

[Ilwrath]

Adridos, on 14 February 2013 - 10:55 AM, said:

Why don't you read the entiriety of the post before responding?

Tribes ('98 game with 64 people per map)!=Tribes Ascend ('12 game with 32 people per map).

Sorry about that. Very bad reading indeed.

[Wales Grey]

Tennex, on 14 February 2013 - 09:12 AM, said:

The effort to reward ratio was not very well thought out.

Spin fusors required a lot of skill and effor to use, however, after hours of gameplay mastering the spin fusor. you can easily get shot down by an enemy automatic weapon. which just required a bit of leading, where as the spin fuser required the enemy to land on the ground before a hit or preform a very hard blue plate special in the air.

There are a lot of similar issues in this game. For example, the effort required to use LRMs is minimal compared to other weapons. Sure you can say well if someone has ECM its "harder" to use LRMs, but not really. Its situational, either you can use LRMs in the absence of ECM or you can't in the presence of it. theres no middle ground and no skill required. All of this is decided before the match begins.

Similarly in light mech brawling situations. A huge amount of effort is required to down a ECM sSRM raven, in a mech without either of those equipment. And in the end, even if you have the skill, you will likely still die. But for the 3L effort is minimal and reward is great.

Spinfuzor is one word, didn't read the rest of it because you clearly don't know what you're talking about.

Edit: to be extra clear, I am being facetious about not reading his post. I read it, and I still think he doesn't know what he's talking about.

Edited by Wales Grey, 14 February 2013 - 11:04 AM.

[Kunae]

Taemien, on 14 February 2013 - 09:45 AM, said:

I do play a non-ECM light. My 4 Medium Pulse Laser Jenner will tear a 3L to shreds.

Any competent Raven-3L pilot will eat you alive. You probably won't even get through his armor.

[Wales Grey]

Taemien, on 14 February 2013 - 09:45 AM, said:

I do play a non-ECM light. My 4 Medium Pulse Laser Jenner will tear a 3L to shreds.

what planet are you from where this is a good build

[Natasha Kerensky]

Tennex, on 14 February 2013 - 09:12 AM, said:

The effort to reward ratio was not very well thought out.

Spin fusors required a lot of skill and effor to use, however, after hours of gameplay mastering the spin fusor. you can easily get shot down by an enemy automatic weapon. which just required a bit of leading, where as the spin fuser required the enemy to land on the ground before a hit or preform a very hard blue plate special in the air.

There are a lot of similar issues in this game. For example, the effort required to use LRMs is minimal compared to other weapons. Sure you can say well if someone has ECM its "harder" to use LRMs, but not really. Its situational, either you can use LRMs in the absence of ECM or you can't in the presence of it. theres no middle ground and no skill required. All of this is decided before the match begins.

Similarly in light mech brawling situations. A huge amount of effort is required to down a ECM sSRM raven, in a mech without either of those equipment. And in the end, even if you have the skill, you will likely still die. But for the 3L effort is minimal and reward is great.

ECM Ravens are only "hard" for people who depend on streaks. Everyone else can just fire on them normally. So stop using streaks.

[Taemien]

Kunae, on 14 February 2013 - 11:30 AM, said:

Any competent Raven-3L pilot will eat you alive. You probably won't even get through his armor.

Thats the thing, none of them are competent enough.

Come on now, I've never faced anyone able to take me on 1v1 in MWO. Doesn't matter what mech they are in, doesn't matter what mech I'm in. The majority of players are too wrapped up in "thats OP" or "PGI needs to nerf this so I can play again." You honestly think they are going to be able to take on a Vet who has no issues with the so called 'current imbalances'?

I'm not saying I am the best player in all of MWO. But the chances of me running into an equal or better skilled pilot (due to the way the drop system currently works) is less then if I get matched up against an 8 man premade.

And even if I get into a scrap with a decent pilot, those streaks aren't going to help him. Between jumpjets and ducking behind buildings. He's only going to be able to deal 10-15 damage from his lasers to my 24.

Sorry but I'm not going to be afraid of a rinky dink 5 damage weapon that requires a lock to fire. Not all of us are mindless PUGs and halfassed Premades that don't know how all these weapons work. And I'm not the only one who's been able to avoid locks.

[Kaldor]

Taemien, on 14 February 2013 - 09:45 AM, said:

I do play a non-ECM light. My 4 Medium Pulse Laser Jenner will tear a 3L to shreds.

[Kunae]

Taemien, on 14 February 2013 - 11:43 AM, said:

Thats the thing, none of them are competent enough. Come on now, I've never faced anyone able to take me on 1v1 in MWO. Doesn't matter what mech they are in, doesn't matter what mech I'm in. The majority of players are too wrapped up in "thats OP" or "PGI needs to nerf this so I can play again." You honestly think they are going to be able to take on a Vet who has no issues with the so called 'current imbalances'? I'm not saying I am the best player in all of MWO. But the chances of me running into an equal or better skilled pilot (due to the way the drop system currently works) is less then if I get matched up against an 8 man premade. And even if I get into a scrap with a decent pilot, those streaks aren't going to help him. Between jumpjets and ducking behind buildings. He's only going to be able to deal 10-15 damage from his lasers to my 24. Sorry but I'm not going to be afraid of a rinky dink 5 damage weapon that requires a lock to fire. Not all of us are mindless PUGs and halfassed Premades that don't know how all these weapons work. And I'm not the only one who's been able to avoid locks.

I'm a Jenner pilot, by trade, myself.

I can take a Raven-3L out and kill 2-3 non-ECM lights, 1v2 or 1v3, with only maybe getting one armor location opened. And that's if I mess up.

[Dock Steward]

Are we really this up-in-arms about a weapon that does 5 damage? I realize they can be boated pretty easily, but even the biggest SSRM boat in the current game has an Alpha of 30 damage. That's peanuts. I'm not saying Streaks work perfectly, but honestly, why change something that makes them useless. They target a heat source (the engine), it makes sense that they hit CT. As for the trajectory, yeah, maybe the travel corridor for the first 25-50 meters should be flatter.

[LaserAngel]

KuruptU4Fun, on 14 February 2013 - 09:55 AM, said:

What's funny Orzorn is people do not realize that, they think it's a valid argument to include in a BAP is useless or BAP vs. ECM debate. I can run BAP and a sensor module on a LRM boat or a scout and acquire a targets info faster than most people can gain a base lockon.

You're better off just using the Advanced Sensor Range module since it is weightless. BAP is 1.5 tons and only offers increased sensor range along with target gathering speed. You get 1,000m and 15% decrease in info time with the modules. Once again, they're weightless albeit expensive and endgame hardware.

Why is the ability to spot, for LRMs and scouting from the rear, at +1,200 m worth 1.5 tons in this environment? You can't fire your LRMs past 1,000 m and about 600m effective. BAP doesn't offer any benefits to increase lock-on range against ECM. TAG limits you to 750m.

Spend that 1.5 tons on ammo, armor, or a DHS.

There have be discussions about improving the benefits of BAP but that's just not what is in PGI's balancing rotation right now. We just got out of ballistic and heavy energy weapons.

[Kunae]

Dock Steward, on 14 February 2013 - 11:53 AM, said:

Are we really this up-in-arms about a weapon that does 5 damage? I realize they can be boated pretty easily, but even the biggest SSRM boat in the current game has an Alpha of 30 damage. That's peanuts. I'm not saying Streaks work perfectly, but honestly, why change something that makes them useless. They target a heat source (the engine), it makes sense that they hit CT. As for the trajectory, yeah, maybe the travel corridor for the first 25-50 meters should be flatter.

As you don't appear to play lights, you really don't have the perspective to join this conversation.

[DragonsFire]

The biggest issue with the SSRM equipped 3L is the impulse value (ie cockpit shake) of each missile. When fired from the NARC tube, and using chain fire, you can effectively impart cockpit shake onto your intended target for quite a bit of disorientation. While this does no physical movement to their actual targeting, for many players this is enough to rattle them, get them off their shot, and generally get them to become easy pickings. This gets further compounded when you introduce 2-3 lights into the mix.

I'm not saying that there are not other potential issues here, but the impulse value of the missiles alone, and the way that they are fired from the 3L specifically, are the source of a lot of the perception of OP'ness that the 3L currently enjoys.

Edited by DragonsFire, 14 February 2013 - 12:07 PM.

[Dock Steward]

Kunae, on 14 February 2013 - 11:59 AM, said:

As you don't appear to play lights, you really don't have the perspective to join this conversation.

1) Read the OP and tell me where it says we are only talking about Lights

2) Point me toward the section that says I have to use a particular mech to be able to comment on a particular topic

3) Keep telling people to butt out of conversations and see how long enough people care to play this game to keep it alive.

[Kunae]

Dock Steward, on 14 February 2013 - 12:09 PM, said:

1) Read the OP and tell me where it says we are only talking about Lights

2) Point me toward the section that says I have to use a particular mech to be able to comment on a particular topic

3) Keep telling people to butt out of conversations and see how long enough people care to play this game to keep it alive.

1.

Tennex, on 14 February 2013 - 09:12 AM, said:

Similarly in light mech brawling situations. A huge amount of effort is required to down a ECM sSRM raven, in a mech without either of those equipment. And in the end, even if you have the skill, you will likely still die. But for the 3L effort is minimal and reward is great.

2. If you don't understand what you are talking about, your comment has negative value. It's common sense.

3. Not sure if I've seen a more ignorant comment. Ooh, I've driven away someone who doesn't know what they're talking about, nor has a proper context to discuss it.

[Parnage Winters]

Tennex, on 14 February 2013 - 09:12 AM, said:

The effort to reward ratio was not very well thought out.

Spin fusors required a lot of skill and effor to use, however, after hours of gameplay mastering the spin fusor. you can easily get shot down by an enemy automatic weapon. which just required a bit of leading, where as the spin fuser required the enemy to land on the ground before a hit or preform a very hard blue plate special in the air.

There are a lot of similar issues in this game. For example, the effort required to use LRMs is minimal compared to other weapons. Sure you can say well if someone has ECM its "harder" to use LRMs, but not really. Its situational, either you can use LRMs in the absence of ECM or you can't in the presence of it. theres no middle ground and no skill required. All of this is decided before the match begins.

Similarly in light mech brawling situations. A huge amount of effort is required to down a ECM sSRM raven, in a mech without either of those equipment. And in the end, even if you have the skill, you will likely still die. But for the 3L effort is minimal and reward is great.

Tennex, on 14 February 2013 - 09:20 AM, said:

but the result is binomial gameplay. where if you bring LRMs, and the enemy has ECM. match is decided before it begins.

disclaimer: i do not boat LRMS

>_> Please tell me more about how LRMS are easy to use and require no "skill" to use effectively as you yourself admit you don't use them...

Yeaup no skill, because aiming is much harder then maintain lock and knowing cover locations and firing arcs and moving to avoid the ecm lights that are going to face hug you if they notice you forcing dumbfires at best. To say one is more difficult to do then the other screams to me at least "I've never used this except for maybe once"

SSRM's don't they lock onto every mech section and even leg and arm joints at this point? I'am not particularly afraid of ssrms at this point. Then again I generally don't see more then four on a single mech. *shrug*

[Dock Steward]

Kunae, on 14 February 2013 - 12:14 PM, said:

1.
2. If you don't understand what you are talking about, your comment has negative value. It's common sense.

3. Not sure if I've seen a more ignorant comment. Ooh, I've driven away someone who doesn't know what they're talking about, nor has a proper context to discuss it.

1) Yeah you pointed out the one place where the OP uses lights in a specific example of the over-all point. Bravo!
2) I play against the same lights you do
3) I've reported you. Twice. Have a nice day. I'm over this thread.

[DrxAbstract]

Orzorn, on 14 February 2013 - 09:28 AM, said:

Oh, guys, as an aside, I discovered and exploit with SSRMs that allowed you to increase their lock to less than a second, I'd have gauged it at almost a half second. I sent the exploit details to Thomas, but I saw several mechs using it the other day. It adds no additional tonnage, and is RIDICULOUSLY overpowered. If one thought SSRMs took too little skill now, with that exploit, they take less than no skill.

I've run into a couple ravens doing this - would run out of sight long enough targeting to drop and the very second i crossed back into LOS i'd get hit with SSRMs... The time frame here is well beyond even the Module lock duration. Didnt matter much because i still killed them, but it made things much more difficult.

Edited by DrxAbstract, 14 February 2013 - 12:18 PM.

[Kunae]

Dock Steward, on 14 February 2013 - 12:17 PM, said:

1) Yeah you pointed out the one place where the OP uses lights in a specific example of the over-all point. Bravo!
2) I play against the same lights you do
3) I've reported you. Twice. Have a nice day. I'm over this thread.

Ooh, I has been reported? <shiver>

Playing against lights has zero relevance to light vs light combat. Streaks are not an issue to anyone other than a light.

DrxAbstract, on 14 February 2013 - 12:17 PM, said:

I've run into a couple ravens doing this - would run out of sight long enough targeting to drop and the very second i crossed back into LOS i'd get hit with SSRMs... The time frame here is well beyond even the Module lock duration. Didnt matter much because i still killed them, but it made things much more difficult.

I wonder if there wasn't someone else maintaining LoS on you. I've seen that happen sometimes, and it's frustrating until you happen to notice the spider standing off on a little hill watching you.

[hammerreborn]

Kunae, on 14 February 2013 - 12:21 PM, said:

I wonder if there wasn't someone else maintaining LoS on you. I've seen that happen sometimes, and it's frustrating until you happen to notice the spider standing off on a little hill watching you.

Also perhaps target decay module. 3s(?) is forever in light combat time.

[Kunae]

hammerreborn, on 14 February 2013 - 12:23 PM, said:

Also perhaps target decay module. 3s(?) is forever in light combat time.

True-dat.