473 replies to this topic

[p00k]

LRMs were weak before ECM. they were never "fixed" because they never needed fixing. Well, not counting that flight path bug when artemis first came in, and was promptly hotfixed 2 days later

PPC's disabling ECM won't magically make LRMs good. They were never good. They kill newbies that don't know any better, which I can do with flamers. Yes yes, there's more to LRMs than sitting back and clicking, but anyone who thinks knowing when to fire and when not to constitutes any sort of difficulty belongs in special classes.

Bottom line is, success with LRMs depends more on the target's incompetence than the user's competence.

[armyof1]

Thontor, on 14 February 2013 - 01:05 PM, said:

Caustic valley has plenty of cover... You just need to stay near it.. Yeah there's lots of wide open expanses there too... But don't go out in those... Stay near the cover that is there.

That is exactly the problem especially on Caustic valley, you are pretty much forced to stay around the edge of the volcano because it's too far to go from there to another cover as 2 lrmboats will have plenty of time to blast you into or close to death. In that situation piloting a HBK-4SP with the short to midrange weapons it's almost pointless for me to be in that match. Besides I play this game because I want it to of course be fun. Sitting in cover for 10 mins and waiting for missiles to run out is not what I consider fun.

[armyof1]

One Medic Army, on 14 February 2013 - 03:25 PM, said:

Well, couple ways around this.
One, use flanking maneuvers to get around the sides of the enemy force.
Two, be a light mech and just rush through them, secure in the knowledge that it's really hard to put down a light mech moving evasively at full speed.
Three, snipe the everloving **** out of anything that moves, and get behind cover before the LRMs land.

My 4x ML and 2x srm6 on my 4SP don't exactly translate well into sniping. And to flank someone in Caustic you'd pretty much have to walk a long way into open territory, not exactly ideal against lrmboats. But since maps are random it's not like I have a choice to pick another mech. So there I am sitting and waiting for missile after missile after missile barrage and I think to myself why even bother playing, it's virtually the watching paint dry scenario.

Edited by armyof1, 14 February 2013 - 03:48 PM.

[One Medic Army]

armyof1, on 14 February 2013 - 03:41 PM, said:

My 4x ML and 2x srm6 on my 4SP don't exactly translate well into sniping. And to flank someone in Caustic you'd pretty much have to walk a long way into open territory, not exactly ideal against lrmboats. But since maps are random it's not like I have a choice to pick another mech. So there I am sitting and waiting for missile after missile after missile barrage and I think to myself why even bother playing, it's virtually the watching paint dry scenario.

Yup, you've found the downside of your powerful close range build.
This is part of why my Hunch P has a pair of Large Lasers.
Also, just like you get stuck on Caustic in a close range build, those LRM guys get stuck on River City and Frozen City with their LRM boats and cover everywhere.
Look at it as encouragement towards playing more versatile builds.

[Dirkdaring]

Death Mallet, on 14 February 2013 - 09:27 AM, said:

- AS7-D-DCs will gradually disappear from the battlefield.

Thank god. You know how lame it is to run into 4x DDC, 3x Raven 1x Stalker every 8 man game?

I'm fine with LRMs.

[Bishop Steiner]

Dirkdaring, on 14 February 2013 - 03:53 PM, said:

Thank god. You know how lame it is to run into 4x DDC, 3x Raven 1x Stalker every 8 man game?

I'm fine with LRMs.

well, D-DCs are still one of the best Missile Boat platforms.... 3 ALRM-15 racks, plus tag and back up weapons, are still nasty. And the 1.5 tons for an ECM still make them worth it.

[armyof1]

Thontor, on 14 February 2013 - 03:46 PM, said:

I pilot an HBK-4SP a lot as well... best bet is to just stick it out and wait for one of the enemy to come into range of your weapons without you needing to leave cover.. yeah i know it might not be the most fun thing in the world.. but it's better than getting pummeled by LRMS..

I think 10 minutes is a bit of an exaggeration.. in my experience it takes a lot less time than that for the battle just naturally gravitates to closer ranges where you can be effective..

LRMs NEED to force people to stay in cover because they don't want to not get hit by them.. otherwise there is no point to them being in the game...

10 mins are one of the longer waits, but it most certainly happens sometimes when there are several lrmboats unleashing their ridiculous amount of missiles they can pack with them. More often you do get several players thinking "Scr*w this, I have better things to do with my time" and rush in and get 2-3 shots off and die, and sometimes I do that too in hope of the next game being worth playing.

I agree lrm should make people think about finding cover, but what I disagree with is how big a cover you're forced to find since lrms are too good at sneaking around and over cover. When you fire lrms you don't even have to worry about standing in front of a mountain, they go straight through the top of it which make it even easier to use them without leaving cover. Easy mode is just too easy.

Edited by armyof1, 14 February 2013 - 04:06 PM.

[batesman]

Trauglodyte, on 14 February 2013 - 09:33 AM, said:

Sadly, you are very very wrong. And this is why you're wrong:

- If your team is smart and have multiple ECM mechs, the PPC will knock out one mech's ECM but it will still benefit from the other mech's ECM. Therefor, you're still screwed with LRMs.

The end.

By the logic of "if your team is smart" you assume that the team is premade. You do not address the impact to PUG groups which lack the level of coordination associated with a premade. So, you are only half right. LRMs will be a "problem" in PUG groups for any mech that cannot move in excess of 80 kph per hour.

[armyof1]

One Medic Army, on 14 February 2013 - 03:52 PM, said:

Yup, you've found the downside of your powerful close range build.
This is part of why my Hunch P has a pair of Large Lasers.
Also, just like you get stuck on Caustic in a close range build, those LRM guys get stuck on River City and Frozen City with their LRM boats and cover everywhere.
Look at it as encouragement towards playing more versatile builds.

There's just so much I can do with a 4SP really, exchange 4 ML and some SRM ammo for one LL? I have to say I find there's something wrong when there are maps that make a certain variant of a mech close to worthless. Lrmboats don't have it as bad at all even in River City. As soon as the fighting starts you will have moments that you're exposed and eat a bunch of lrms.

Edited by armyof1, 14 February 2013 - 04:09 PM.

[Tesunie]

p00k, on 14 February 2013 - 03:30 PM, said:

LRMs were weak before ECM. they were never "fixed" because they never needed fixing. Well, not counting that flight path bug when artemis first came in, and was promptly hotfixed 2 days later

PPC's disabling ECM won't magically make LRMs good. They were never good. They kill newbies that don't know any better, which I can do with flamers. Yes yes, there's more to LRMs than sitting back and clicking, but anyone who thinks knowing when to fire and when not to constitutes any sort of difficulty belongs in special classes.

Bottom line is, success with LRMs depends more on the target's incompetence than the user's competence.

How about shooting at the Atlas on the other side of the map who is in ECM with no lock and hitting still? Or knowing enough not to shoot those LRMs at the person hiding under the bridge? Or to not shoot your LRMs at the person within your minimum range and instead lock on and shoot at the people you can hurt when all you have are LRMs (very common mistake I see in the game)? Or that there are other, still effective, uses for LRMs outside of just boating them?

Knowing when to shoot and when not to shoot is skill. Otherwise, I guess that knowing how to line up your shots and time your shots with any other weapon isn't any form of skill either. Also, if you think LRMs require no skill to use, load up on them then. Get into a match with lots of ECM where you can't lock onto a thing, and shoot them blind. See how "easy mode" they are then. This could also work on that lovely ridge in frozen city with a good opponent who bobs up and down the side. With no skill, you would just keep shooting and wasting your ammo on that one target. Or, when a light gets on top of you, fight the urge to defend yourself, continue shooting at farther targets while also typing a response to your team that you need help on grid E3.

Now, I'm not saying LRMs are super hard to use, but they do require some skill to use them well. The key word is well. I've spectated several people using LRMs that made me cringe. They didn't hold their locks, fired at target too close, fired before they had a lock, shot their missiles into hills and buildings, tried shooting targets inside the cave, etc. Getting a lock might not be hard. Looking target when you have a lock might not be that hard, but to effectively hit your target and know what to target takes skill and experience.

[SpiralRazor]

armyof1, on 14 February 2013 - 03:41 PM, said:

My 4x ML and 2x srm6 on my 4SP don't exactly translate well into sniping. And to flank someone in Caustic you'd pretty much have to walk a long way into open territory, not exactly ideal against lrmboats. But since maps are random it's not like I have a choice to pick another mech. So there I am sitting and waiting for missile after missile after missile barrage and I think to myself why even bother playing, it's virtually the watching paint dry scenario.

So your weapons load out isnt optimal for a particular map...I am SHOCKED AND APPALLED sir....really..i am.

armyof1, on 14 February 2013 - 04:02 PM, said:

There's just so much I can do with a 4SP really, exchange 4 ML and some SRM ammo for one LL? I have to say I find there's something wrong when there are maps that make a certain variant of a mech close to worthless.

Ummm..yes? Sorry not every map allows you to brawl bro...Stop being a bad?

Tesunie, on 14 February 2013 - 04:03 PM, said:

How about shooting at the Atlas on the other side of the map who is in ECM with no lock and hitting still? Or knowing enough not to shoot those LRMs at the person hiding under the bridge? Or to not shoot your LRMs at the person within your minimum range and instead lock on and shoot at the people you can hurt when all you have are LRMs (very common mistake I see in the game)? Or that there are other, still effective, uses for LRMs outside of just boating them?

Knowing when to shoot and when not to shoot is skill. Otherwise, I guess that knowing how to line up your shots and time your shots with any other weapon isn't any form of skill either. Also, if you think LRMs require no skill to use, load up on them then. Get into a match with lots of ECM where you can't lock onto a thing, and shoot them blind. See how "easy mode" they are then. This could also work on that lovely ridge in frozen city with a good opponent who bobs up and down the side. With no skill, you would just keep shooting and wasting your ammo on that one target. Or, when a light gets on top of you, fight the urge to defend yourself, continue shooting at farther targets while also typing a response to your team that you need help on grid E3.

Now, I'm not saying LRMs are super hard to use, but they do require some skill to use them well. The key word is well. I've spectated several people using LRMs that made me cringe. They didn't hold their locks, fired at target too close, fired before they had a lock, shot their missiles into hills and buildings, tried shooting targets inside the cave, etc. Getting a lock might not be hard. Looking target when you have a lock might not be that hard, but to effectively hit your target and know what to target takes skill and experience.

Bads will keep on baddin'/

[Kell Morgan]

If your dumb enough to get hit by LRM's your dumb enough to die from them! look at professional matches how many of them are running pure lrm boats? NOT MANY and for a good reason!

[PainGod30]

Wait, since they're finally starting to make ECM vunerable so that teams with 6 ecm can't blanket the battlefield and negate all LRMS and SSRMs you want them to nerf everything that ECM is supposed to cover into oblivion? Since your DDC atlas won't be able to roflstomp anything slow enough for it to catch without ECM you're upset? A team who has skilled LRM boat pilots who can fill a roll that's basically been lost because of OP ECM are so OP that we have to nerf it so bad that no one will want to LRM boat? Everything has a weakness. You don't wanna get slammed with LRMs, flank and rush him. Just because they are starting to take away from the obnoxious titan that ECM has become doesn't mean the sky will fall. Let's all just wait and see what they have planned for next week before we start complaining.



Edit: spelling

Edited by PainGod30, 14 February 2013 - 04:08 PM.

[One Medic Army]

armyof1, on 14 February 2013 - 04:02 PM, said:

There's just so much I can do with a 4SP really, exchange 4 ML and some SRM ammo for one LL? I have to say I find there's something wrong when there are maps that make a certain variant of a mech close to worthless.

Your mech is specialized at brawling, I'm not saying that's wrong, but you get the same issues every other specialized build has: being caught in the wrong situation.
If you think running a 4SP on caustic is bad, try running a 9A centurion w/o ballistics. Every single weapon you have is torso mounted, good luck trying to shoot up/down hills. I use that 9A build, and end up on caustic with it, I still kill things by waiting for the right time to run madly into the fray.

[Buzzkillin]

Everything doesn't have to revolve around the D-DC, light mechs carrying ECM can walk with the group and provide cover. You'll be surprised you are never the first target when walking with assaults.

[ollo]

Death Mallet, on 14 February 2013 - 09:27 AM, said:

The Problem:

LRMs never got "fixed".

Well, ECM never got fixed, too. Glad they are starting to fix it now...

[armyof1]

SpiralRazor, on 14 February 2013 - 04:05 PM, said:

So your weapons load out isnt optimal for a particular map...I am SHOCKED AND APPALLED sir....really..i am.




Ummm..yes? Sorry not every map allows you to brawl bro...Stop being a bad?

You sir have made such good points I can't find words to argue against you. I'll just let your wonderful arguments stand for themselves and shine with their wisdom over all of us. See you out there in your lrmboat/splatcat.

Edited by armyof1, 14 February 2013 - 04:15 PM.

[Phenakist]

You forgot THE MOST IMPORTANT factor for LRMs.


COVER!

[Strucker]

I think this thread needs moar pointless QQ from noobs not knowing how to play non-ECM mechs.

Like seriously lets have moar QQ about how broken Gauss is I mean those things can actually leg lights consistently, nurf!

And would it kill someone to start a pony threadnought every once in a while?

Ok I'll start

[armyof1]

One Medic Army, on 14 February 2013 - 04:08 PM, said:

Your mech is specialized at brawling, I'm not saying that's wrong, but you get the same issues every other specialized build has: being caught in the wrong situation.
If you think running a 4SP on caustic is bad, try running a 9A centurion w/o ballistics. Every single weapon you have is torso mounted, good luck trying to shoot up/down hills. I use that 9A build, and end up on caustic with it, I still kill things by waiting for the right time to run madly into the fray.

Ah yes the kamikaze rush, I might die but I'll take you to the grave with me!