59 replies to this topic

[Striker1980]

Sybreed, on 28 May 2012 - 05:43 AM, said:

True, but it all comes to what is more financially logical. In my case (and this will make me sound like an *******...), I probably make more money than most of you in the forums. It'd be a lot less logical for me for to spend 10 hours to get enough C-bill to buy a particular mech than to work half an hour to buy it with my own money. I could have spent those 10 hours working, making a lot more money in the end. I know life isn't just about money, but sometimes you have to manage your spare time/work time around it.

While I will probably get pwned by people who spend more time on the game (and good for them!), the f2p model actually balance things out when it comes to people with a lot of spare time vs people with less spare time, but a bigger wallet.

Anyway, can't wait to play with all of you.

Its true that you may be able to spend money getting a better 'mech but you must remember that you have to level up your Pilot too.

It's important to bare in mind also that some IS 'Mechs are just as valid as some Omnis with the right equipment and an ace pilot on board. IE Atlas VS Sunder, sure the Sunders' an Awesome 'mech but if the pilots a clown that just lumbers into the middle of the field then he's going down hard against an Atlas loaded up with Clan Tech, all of this gear also be bought with in game currency, XP may not be purchasable, good skills are down to you.

I'm personally looking forward to having a couple of decent mechs I keep for quite some time IE catapult and raven.

-Striker

[Tirick Fire]

My only worry with the F2P model in this case (and I've not delved enough into the Dev logs/forum to know more about this), but the C-Bill cost to repair after a battle (especially at lower skill) might well bankrupt a player to the point of not being able to field any mechs. This could in essence 'force' payment just to play.

I of course don't know this for a fact, just projecting possibilities.

The best MMO payment model, IMHO, is the GW / GW2 model. Pay to buy the game, play for free. In store items have 0 effect on the game itself, in game currency, content or 'stats'. I'd have no objection to playing any MMO if the only real cost was the up-front game.

[Gremlich Johns]

Sybreed, on 28 May 2012 - 05:43 AM, said:

True, but it all comes to what is more financially logical. In my case (and this will make me sound like an *******...), I probably make more money than most of you in the forums.

It does - great call, mate! No hubris here.

[Adrienne Vorton]

we will see by time...and if it turns out p2w too much, we can start a s+++storm here anyway xD
in the first place i´m curious for the game itself, and ( if europeans get to it, which i think) the founders box will give a good headstart anyway.
after playing a few matches, i´ll take a closer look to what is purchasable and what isn´t, and THEN i can say something about the f2p model of MWO...hope the best, expect the worst, so you´re always prepared

[predxen]

pursang, on 27 May 2012 - 10:18 PM, said:

You seem to know something that the rest of us don't. Just how exactly is this game P2W? For all we know, you can only buy cosmetic items/side-grades.

I guess i do know something you don't.

http://mwomercs.com/...tion-inception/

Black Dragon EnDrakus, on 27 May 2012 - 10:35 PM, said:

not to mention i have yet to hear anything in an interview or read in any dev post that c-bills for real money will even be an option, it could be that the only way to earn c-bills is via good ol' fashioned blood sweat and tears on the battlefield.

http://mwomercs.com/...ation-inception

[predxen]

EmperorMyrf, on 27 May 2012 - 10:52 PM, said:

I don't agree with predxen's POV, but if you watch the Mech Lab video, you'll notice there are 2 price tags on the mechs: one for C-bills, and the other for their "real money" currency, abbreviated MC.

But this only means that the people with deep wallets will only have the ability to accrue more mechs quicker, not that they'll be better. And it doesn't matter how you pay for it, a PPC is a PPC on every mech, so there won't be mechs that are overpowered simply because its owner has cash.

You are right, but we will have to wait and see. It may be that you can only pilot a certain mech if you are a certain level, which would balance things quite a bit, meaning you have to work for the right to pilot something, and cant just jump into an MKII. God i hope they make MKII's.

[xMEPHISTOx]

Well...I play WoT (world of tanks) and in many ways it is very similiar to mechs, just w/less technology and the such. But the mechanics of the FTP vs the payed accounts is very well done and well thought out. I would be very impressed and satisfied if MWO were to use a similiar framework for the FTP vs. payed accts.

Ahhhhh I can already hear the FTP folks now..."you walletwarrior" at those of us whom choose to acquire exclusive mechs via the founders package.

Edited by xMEPHISTOx, 28 May 2012 - 12:34 PM.

[Zack Delphirian]

WoT has HUGE balance issues. You can't even touch a tank that is 3 tiers above yours, and they purposefully balance the games so that tier 4 tanks play with tier 6-7 ; that way you feel underpowered most of the time and want to pay for a faster grind. Honestly, half the maps I play, I don't even bother, I just log out cause I don't see the point of fleeing everytime I see a tank I know I can't even scratch...

In Battletech, it's VERY different, because all the weapons do damage ! As someone said : You can mount a PPC on a light mech or on an assault mech, it's still a PPC and it will do the same damage. So I don't see how they can unbalance this, they can't invent mechs with twice armor, it would just be heavier ; and they can't imagine weapons with double damage. At least I hope they don't...
So, even if you haven't unlocked the PPC yet, you can still mount a large laser for example, or some mediums ; you'll get your tonnage worth of damage. It might not be suited to your needs, but you can later grind to get the perfect mech for you.

What I'm hoping, is that they don't make super-equipment expensive to repair. Imagine you end up with a bad team (it happens), you die. You ruined your fancy gear. You suddenly don't want to play your same mech with old gear like you just did for 10 hours to grind...
It doesn't really make sense I think to install a system like that...It would just make ALL of the casual players leave, which is not something you want to do if you want to make money out of the game

[Sybreed]

Gremlich Johns, on 28 May 2012 - 07:01 AM, said:

It does - great call, mate! No hubris here.

my point was that sometimes it's smarter for someone to spend real money instead of grinding for 10 hours which is why I like the f2p model. But yeah, I used a bad way to phrase it, my apologies.

[xMEPHISTOx]

Zack Delphirian, on 28 May 2012 - 12:40 PM, said:

WoT has HUGE balance issues. You can't even touch a tank that is 3 tiers above yours, and they purposefully balance the games so that tier 4 tanks play with tier 6-7 ; that way you feel underpowered most of the time and want to pay for a faster grind. Honestly, half the maps I play, I don't even bother, I just log out cause I don't see the point of fleeing everytime I see a tank I know I can't even scratch...

In Battletech, it's VERY different, because all the weapons do damage ! As someone said : You can mount a PPC on a light mech or on an assault mech, it's still a PPC and it will do the same damage. So I don't see how they can unbalance this, they can't invent mechs with twice armor, it would just be heavier ; and they can't imagine weapons with double damage. At least I hope they don't...
So, even if you haven't unlocked the PPC yet, you can still mount a large laser for example, or some mediums ; you'll get your tonnage worth of damage. It might not be suited to your needs, but you can later grind to get the perfect mech for you.

What I'm hoping, is that they don't make super-equipment expensive to repair. Imagine you end up with a bad team (it happens), you die. You ruined your fancy gear. You suddenly don't want to play your same mech with old gear like you just did for 10 hours to grind...
It doesn't really make sense I think to install a system like that...It would just make ALL of the casual players leave, which is not something you want to do if you want to make money out of the game

I agree with all but the first paragraph as I have no problem in my smaller mechs being in with the larger ones, but since I play mostly end game tanks it doesnt matter much anyhow, but yeah the matchmaker in WoT is a bit lacking but its not the matchmaker im talking of.
But the concept of paying a little cash to bypass some of the grind is what appeals to me. But as you said the dynamics of MWO will make it a bit different I think its the upgrading that will be the grind not so much getting a higher tier unit. So the same grind will be there, it is just for upgrades more than newer/better units. And so long as I have the ability to expedite this process by paying a little cash then I fully intend to do so as I am sure many will.
And yeah the repair bill is going to be interesting...as you said get in a bad match to lose valuable upgrades would be devastating to FTP players and payed alike. Its a fine line for the devs when deciding how much this and that will cost and then balance it with what you can potentially lose in a bad battle vs. what you can potentialy make in a good battle. If you are unable to sustain current mechs while still grinding to the next you lose people...but I am sure they have thought all of this out already (i hope ).

Edited by xMEPHISTOx, 28 May 2012 - 01:10 PM.

[Karyudo ds]

Tirick Fire, on 28 May 2012 - 06:23 AM, said:

My only worry with the F2P model in this case (and I've not delved enough into the Dev logs/forum to know more about this), but the C-Bill cost to repair after a battle (especially at lower skill) might well bankrupt a player to the point of not being able to field any mechs. This could in essence 'force' payment just to play.

I of course don't know this for a fact, just projecting possibilities.

Well if you did any research on the subject (as you said you didn't do enough anyway) this has been touched upon. You'll always be able to play, even if you stupidly spend cbills so you're to poor to repair your mech you'll be able to take it into another game anyway.

The point of paying for repairs I think is it's part of MW/BT in general, but it also rewards players for better survival because they'll be able to buy new things faster. The low skill player should always be able to play though too.

Tirick Fire, on 28 May 2012 - 06:23 AM, said:

The best MMO payment model, IMHO, is the GW / GW2 model. Pay to buy the game, play for free. In store items have 0 effect on the game itself, in game currency, content or 'stats'. I'd have no objection to playing any MMO if the only real cost was the up-front game.

GW2 uses the same model 99% of the retail games use. You buy it, it's yours, you play. How exactly is that the best model when PGI couldn't get a publisher to pay for all the work on the game until it was ready for you to buy though? Again, tiny bit of research (its a thread I think) explains why they went this route which basically outlines the point of it. F2P allows you to start up much quicker because you're selling a work in progress item that people can give you money right after it's in a playable state period. Now an up front price to play the game isn't a terrible model (its worked for 30 some odd years right?) but if you don't have big publisher bucks to back it up then how are you going to even produce the game? Suddenly you "best" model isn't good enough to get the job done.

In theory up front items don't look like they will give any tactical advantage. Tribes works that way as well, you can get skins, unlock things quicker but all the weapons are unlockable without putting money down at all if you want. To top it off the stuff you start with? Perfect for KILLING! It looks like MWO wants to give that as well.

[Scav]

F2P is one of the top concerns for me about this game.

F2P games, so far, are failures due to P2W.

[Felicitatem Parco]

Scav, on 28 May 2012 - 01:23 PM, said:

F2P is one of the top concerns for me about this game.

F2P games, so far, are failures due to P2W.

Fear not, because all equipment and Mechs available to the cash-paying players is also available to the free-playing crowd. You can't buy Win because all the BattleMech chassis, weapons platforms, ECM equipment, or "Attack/Defend bonuses" you can buy will also be available to all your opponents...

You can pay to customize your game experience, and you can pay to make the fake money and XP come in faster, but you can't buy Platinum Gauss Rifles, Titanium Armor, 55-ton Mechs that can hold 65 tons, or Gold Bullets; you can only get what anyone else can get.

Edited by Prosperity Park, 28 May 2012 - 02:03 PM.

[Ansel]

predxen, on 28 May 2012 - 12:24 PM, said:

I guess i do know something you don't.

http://mwomercs.com/...tion-inception/



http://mwomercs.com/...ation-inception

There isn't an advantage to be had from buying one of those mechs, all they seem to be are elite reskined versions of the normal mechs.

Meaning once you get your regular catapult or atlas elited its the exact same thing. Except that it takes up a mechbay spot that you will feel horrible about when the actual better mechs that are further down the timeline (**Clan**) are put into the game and you won't want to get rid of it since it has the credit earning increase.

You don't get +20% moar armor points useing the inception atlas. You don't get +15 damage on your weapons for useing it either.

So the only thing being sold there is time, its still a side grade when all mechs are equal in the end.

In other words there is no advantage to having an atlas right out of the gate in this game, a jenner can still kill you if it gets in close and you have no support.

Side grade means that what is bought isn't better than what already exists, if there are no bonuses for the inception atlas then it is a side grade to the regular atlas.

Aperantly you don't know as much as you think you do.

[Kracow]

Prosperity Park, on 28 May 2012 - 02:00 PM, said:

Fear not, because all equipment and Mechs available to the cash-paying players is also available to the free-playing crowd. You can't buy Win because all the BattleMech chassis, weapons platforms, ECM equipment, or "Attack/Defend bonuses" you can buy will also be available to all your opponents...

You can pay to customize your game experience, and you can pay to make the fake money and XP come in faster, but you can't buy Platinum Gauss Rifles, Titanium Armor, 55-ton Mechs that can hold 65 tons, or Gold Bullets; you can only get what anyone else can get.

Lets hope this holds true because anyone who plays these types of free 2 play games knows what they say early on vs. what is going on while the game is running usually has some grey zone that some consider to be play 2 win.

Lets hope for no weapons that are $ bought that are a tad bit better, lets hope for the mechs bought with $ don't get a generous Match Making ability built in.

[Arbalister]

One point I didn't see anyone make about how this game is perfect for the F2P model - the entire mythos of BattleTech is, essentially, F2P. By the time period of the game - year 3000 and on - the technology for building new 'Mechs had been lost, most great houses fielded 'Mechs that were centuries old. 'Mechs are family heirlooms - you keep it running by spending cash on it, or salvaging parts off the field. Whether you're a member of a Great House or just someone that found Dad's 'Mech under a tarp in the garage... and whoever has the most cash has the best weapons... unless you're a *very* good pilot.

Sounds almost like an F2P system to me.

[Sybreed]

Scav, on 28 May 2012 - 01:23 PM, said:

F2P is one of the top concerns for me about this game.

F2P games, so far, are failures due to P2W.

league of legends and Tribes: Ascend would like to have a word with you.

F2P, done right, can become a real money printing machine, while still being fun to those who don't want to put money on the game.

[TwoFaced]

To me, it really doesnt make sense to argue about the unknown.

Time...will tell everything.

[FlakAttack]

Paying to get stuff people can reasonably get through normal gameplay is not P2W.

Paying to get exclusive mechs/weapons/ammo/whatever or paying to get things that take an absurd amount of time to get is arguably P2W.

Paying to get straight bonuses or things blatantly more powerful than the "free" stuff is definitely P2W.

As far as I can tell, MWO falls into the first category. I hope that this is true.

[AtomicArmadillo]

Don't worry be happy,we have a new Mechwarrior game and it looks great.I'm sure the devs will stck by what they said and keep it balanced.