417 replies to this topic

[ArmandTulsen]

Sifright, on 17 February 2013 - 03:19 PM, said:

welcome to capitalism market forces operating through cultural and educational forcing.

Where the rich get socialized and the poor get fucked

Where the people are expected to help the corporate at their own expense and loss.

I mean it's only tangential in relation to what you are saying but it's still an example of just how warped and distorted the cultural narrative is becoming.

That's certainly a topic for another day and thread - one which I've love to lose track of time discussing.

Joseph Mallan, on 17 February 2013 - 03:23 PM, said:

You can look at it that way. I work for Ford, I buy Ford products. I am investing in the future of the company I work for. I am testing a game that I want to eventually play. To get that game to finished product the DEVs need money.

Your situation is completely different. You have a vested interested in the well being a particular corporation, because your livelihood is tied into the success or failure of the company. In that respect you do have responsibility (to your family, for example, if you have one) towards the products they turn.

[Xiang]

Is it required - NO, would it be nice - Yes.

Thoughts:
I bought the 3k MC pack and have bought my Mech bays, and they make it very convenient to own mulitple mechs, so it was definately worth it. I also happen to Love BT/MW, so why wouldn't i want to support the game. If it was a packaged game, i would of had to pay $60 for it, so $15 is cheap. I am also considering getting a 3k package for my 8 (almost 9) year old sons account (if he continues playing and doesnt get bored). I will also likely buy more MC for myself for fluff items or a hero mech that i may like in the future.

Some of the ideas posted in the first few pages for how to acquire things "free" were great, i really liked the idea of giving a free mechbay to a player who is active for 3-4 months (meaning that they log in and play the game for at least 1 hour per day at least 3-4 days per week). No free mech bays just for having an acct if you are not actively playing.

The GXP idea was also good (maybe a bit expensive, but good) and the 15 Mill C-Bills idea was a good idea, but i would make it much higher. 15 Mill C-Bills can be made in a few days with a hero mech or founder acct, and in about 1 week or less without those perks. It would have to be closer to 50-100 Mill C-bills to make it grindy.

It would also be neat if they rewarded player with MC for accomplishing certain goals. Example: 1 MC for your very first 1st place win, or 1 MC for every 20 1st place wins. Maybe 1 MC for every 40 hours of play time. Stuff like that.

Again, do i think these types of things are required - NO, but they would be nice "gifts" for the community and would not stop people from buying MC, but may in fact encourage people to buy some MC when they realize, that hey, i have 100 MC laying around, what can i do with it? Oh, maybe ill buy a small MC package and use it up.

Xiang

[Volume]

SixStringSamurai, on 17 February 2013 - 03:15 PM, said:

I can't buy tank bays in WoT for free.....yet people still play that game....in fact it holds the world record for most players online at one time on a single server.

A few key differences here:

1: Six free garage slots vs four
2: Many of the tanks are designed to be outclassed / replaced / are placeholder / directly inferior to another tank in a higher tier. This is not the case in this game, especially with role warfare and good light pilots being able to solo an Atlas. A medium laser does the same 5 damage for a lowest-cost 'mech as it does for a highest-cost 'mech. I do not need to replace my Cicada with a Stormcrow in order to make sure my shots don't bounce off the enemy's sloped armor.
3: Premium tanks (hero 'mechs) come with their own garage slot ('mech bay)
4: You do not need to have three of the same tank with different equipment on it in order to level up your tank crew to the highest ability, or unlock speed advantages, fire rate advantages,convergence speed advantages, etc. You only need the tank you want to play.
5: You can keep equipment in your depot. You do not need to lose tons of credits on DHS/Endo/FF "upgrades" or pay to remove them/put-them-back-in if you already purchased it.

Expecting a player to sell for 50% is one thing, but to sell for really ~15-20% because of upgrade costs that aren't refunded, it's really nothing but double-punishing the F2P players.

Niko Snow, on 17 February 2013 - 08:00 PM, said:

I am jettisoning this thread.

As per the last thread locked on this issue, the current limit of 4 'mech bays does not limit a player from achieving anything in particular besides having more than 4 'mechs, which you can still sell and replace at any time. Since only 3 'mechs are required to master any proficiency, there's no blocking taking place.

If you would like to have the convenience of more Mech Bays, you can help support the game by purchasing them using MC. They cost less than a premium cup of coffee, and are a great way to keep me from experiencing scurvy.

I understand and respect your decision.

Edited by Volume, 17 February 2013 - 09:52 PM.

[Red Klown X]

Volume, on 14 February 2013 - 01:00 PM, said:

I understand that PGI needs to make money. I realize that someone who has acquired four of their own well-equipped and upgraded battlemechs has probably gotten many hours of enjoyment out of MWO, and maybe therefore "should" pay for the entertainment.

However, I find it unfair that players can hit a F2P wall and be unable to progress without heavy compromise.

I feel that there needs to be a way to let F2P players explore all the elements of the game without forcing them to essentially backtrack in terms of Battlemechs.

I don't think a player should need to sell the one he has been using to try a new 'Mech. It's not that they can't make a choice, it's that that choice simply shouldn't have to be made, because it's not a sensible choice to impose on players.

Like I said, I don't expect PGI to give everything away for free to players. I would think that allowing slots to be purchased with C-Bills could be a mistake, but perhaps if a player is capable of getting a few extra slots from pilot rank ups or GXP, he would have a fair degree of wiggle room.

What I find hardest here is that the number of available 'Mechs to play has more than doubled, but F2P slots remain locked at 4. It takes three of the same 'Mech to even get a Chassis to Elite/Master, and having three variants of the same 'Mech and one other seems like a strong limit, leaving the player having only two different 'Mechs to play (3 variants of the same one, one variant of another) unless you count the abhorrent trial 'Mech loadouts with no pilot skills (Which are very, very gameplay-affecting).

Don't push away the players who want to play your game - empower them to earn the items they want, even if they have to grind for them. Otherwise they may not play at all. I think pushing away free players is a scary idea and obviously not what we want to do. It's a good thing that you keep XP even if you sell a chassis, but at the same time, it is a hefty c-bill loss if you decide you want to pick up that chassis again - one that is unfair to a player without a founder's bonus and premium account.

I just don't want to be losing players over this.

Edit: Just putting links to my other three posts in this thread here so they can get some more exposure, because most of pages 10-17 are people arguing about things without considering what I posted on pages 6 and 8.

you forget to write a major thing about world of tank , you cant play a tiers 9 or 10 even if you finish the game sniper and won it , the reload price will kill the income won !
There is only 2 way in this game ( wot ) to play a tiers 9 and 10 , it s paying a premium or farming money with tiers 5 ( if we can call this play ... ).

On mwo for the moment even if you loose in an atlas , you can keep playing it !

Support the game or leave it ! ( and if it s only the mech bay that is stoping you , leave it heretic ! ) .

And dont give a **** to the people who want it all free !

cbills for mechbay = farming more for cbills , more afker , disconnection for earn the cbills .

Edited by klownnection, 18 February 2013 - 12:19 AM.

[ChrisOrange]

klownnection, on 17 February 2013 - 11:14 PM, said:

Support the game or leave it ! ( and if it s only the mech bay that is stoping you , leave it heretic ! ) .

no.

Just working on my 2nd account now so its a non issue...you have as many mech bays as you want just make more accounts. So at the end of the day it's not a real issue I guess. Now they are introducing elo/community warfare soon enough so then people will be less likely to do this when they are tied to their main account.

Paying customers that want to support the game: no one is saying you made a bad choice...it will still be a good choice when they finally just unlock mechbays. Personally I would prefer that those paid options are for cosmetic/convenience items and this mech bay business I can't support at this time. It's just kind of a jerk move.

Edited by ChrisOrange, 18 February 2013 - 02:39 AM.

[The Basilisk]

Seriously we ( and by we I mean all who would like to play a more finished and featured game ) need paying players.

So if you like what you see and want to get it, pay for it.

As free to play gamer you are able to experience the game a whole while long maxing out one or two chassis without having to buy anything.

Anything that does matter in this game is possible through simply playing the game.

Only things that do a difference is converting XP to GXP and buying Hero Mechs.

Both things are not realy required to be the best player on the server.

You can earn GXP by simply playing and Hero Mechs give you only more C-Bills / match. Nothing more.

The only reason to spend MCs is to get more pretty, to get more mechs at once or to get C-bills faster.

[Red Klown X]

F2P player have to pay WITH MC for mechbay and for post in the forum .

we dont have to respect these people who just want play it all for free and have all for free . We have to kill them ingame ( i have a list of all of them* ! ) .

we dont have to respect these people who dont support the product . Their pc will burn in hell !

if they play the game , it mean they like the game  .

Why you dont want support a game that you like ?

If you dont like it  , just leave and go planetside , you will learn what s grind mean .

go wot you will learn the obligation to get a premium account if you want play a tiers 9-10 .

we dont have to respect these people who dont want support the work of the dev team , the graphic team , of everyone involved in this game or a game in general .

we dont have to respect these people who dont have my point of view , another opinion , who are smaller than me , bigger than me , who have gf .

Last point GF DONT GIVE XP , MECHBAY  ! So why are you asking for it ?

Pay And Support the think you like and stop your pathetic hypocrisy or you will regret it when you will be face to face with GOD !

*...really , as my post this topic is a pure trollololo .

Edited by klownnection, 18 February 2013 - 03:22 AM.

[SixstringSamurai]

Volume, on 17 February 2013 - 09:44 PM, said:

1: Six free garage slots vs four

Originally there were only 4. Then they added a 5th when they gifted everyone a free premium tank the lend lease M3 Stuart (discontinued). Then they add one each time they increased the nation tree. Mechwarrior doesn't have an entire research tree based on a nation. But they do allow you 1 slot per nation. Mechwarrior allows you 1 free slot per mech class.

Edited by SixStringSamurai, 18 February 2013 - 03:53 AM.

[ChrisOrange]

Here's the final verdict for me: It's a jerk thing to do when you charge RL money for mechbays. If it's revamped I will re evaluate that, but I feel like it's not actually giving paid players value as much as it is just screwing over F2P players.

Paid should be convenience/cosmetics and that convenience part is that you have to grind less to get what you want. Because there's no way to grind out mechbays, that's a problem. Else drop the F2P moniker and call it a glorified demo.

EDIT: Plus I don't feel that companies have the luxury of doing this weird grey area kind of stuff anymore. There are far too many games both F2P and paid that are all fighting for time/attention/money and there's some evidence that the market has grown tired of this model in general.

PGI was either very smart or very lucky because I think the success of the founders program is due to the timing of when they released that program. If they had waited until now, I don't think a founder's program does all that well. I really think they caught the tail end of the rush.

Edited by ChrisOrange, 18 February 2013 - 04:54 AM.

[Gruinhardt]

ChrisOrange, on 18 February 2013 - 04:10 AM, said:

Here's the final verdict for me: It's a jerk thing to do when you charge RL money for mechbays. If it's revamped I will re evaluate that, but I feel like it's not actually giving paid players value as much as it is just screwing over F2P players.

Paid should be convenience/cosmetics and that convenience part is that you have to grind less to get what you want. Because there's no way to grind out mechbays, that's a problem. Else drop the F2P moniker and call it a glorified demo.

EDIT: Plus I don't feel that companies have the luxury of doing this weird grey area kind of stuff anymore. There are far too many games both F2P and paid that are all fighting for time/attention/money and there's some evidence that the market has grown tired of this model in general.

PGI was either very smart or very lucky because I think the success of the founders program is due to the timing of when they released that program. If they had waited until now, I don't think a founder's program does all that well. I really think they caught the tail end of the rush.

You mentioned earlier about what your team needs. As a veteran let me give you some free advice. Your team does not need you to have a diverse stable of available mechs. Your team needs you to be efficient in a single mech. I have paid for many mechbays, and only use 2 of them.

[ArmandTulsen]

Niko Snow, on 17 February 2013 - 08:00 PM, said:

I am jettisoning this thread.

As per the last thread locked on this issue, the current limit of 4 'mech bays does not limit a player from achieving anything in particular besides having more than 4 'mechs, which you can still sell and replace at any time. Since only 3 'mechs are required to master any proficiency, there's no blocking taking place.

If you would like to have the convenience of more Mech Bays, you can help support the game by purchasing them using MC. They cost less than a premium cup of coffee, and are a great way to keep me from experiencing scurvy.

The general discussion forum is likely to have the most traffic. I'm guessing that this is a touchy subject which you guys don't want it to have a lot of attention. Is moving the thread here damage control?

Edited by ArmandTulsen, 18 February 2013 - 06:00 PM.

[p4r4g0n]

More likely it was because it was turning into a paying players vs freeloader hate fest greatly similar to the many premades vs pugs threads.

Just waiting for Mike Forst to post here soon

[Volume]

SixStringSamurai, on 18 February 2013 - 03:51 AM, said:

Originally there were only 4. Then they added a 5th when they gifted everyone a free premium tank the lend lease M3 Stuart (discontinued). Then they add one each time they increased the nation tree. Mechwarrior doesn't have an entire research tree based on a nation. But they do allow you 1 slot per nation. Mechwarrior allows you 1 free slot per mech class.

I am fully aware of this. I had over 2,000 matches in WoT's closed beta. I have my premium M4A2E4 to prove half of it (gift for beta players who got 1,000 battles).

We are comparing the game's current state, that is, February of 2013, not "when WoT was in CB before they had those other trees" - this game has already added multiple chassis and not increased the baseline 'mech bays.

4 free bays for the ~16 variants we had in CB is reasonable, but for 56? I don't think so.

[SixstringSamurai]

Volume, on 22 February 2013 - 11:05 PM, said:

I am fully aware of this. I had over 2,000 matches in WoT's closed beta. I have my premium M4A2E4 to prove half of it (gift for beta players who got 1,000 battles).

We are comparing the game's current state, that is, February of 2013, not "when WoT was in CB before they had those other trees" - this game has already added multiple chassis and not increased the baseline 'mech bays.

4 free bays for the ~16 variants we had in CB is reasonable, but for 56? I don't think so.

What you fail to understand is WoT gives you 1 free slot per nation because tanks are defined by nation then type.

MWO has 4 Weight classes, then types by those weight classes. Hence 4 bays 4 classes. 1 Per Class.

[Red Klown X]

Nope F2P players dont need a way to acquire mech bay without buying mc .

there comes a time when they should be honest with themself and the community and the game by supporting the game they play , the dev work and the fun they get .

Beta is not a valid argument , support or leave , all free at all costs dont make a game get better or grow up .

By the way stop comparing a game like wot to mwo , in the wot crap you have to pay for play a tier 9-10 or farm with a tier 5 to get the money needed for play them ( get the repair and the ammo . ) even if you win the match and get on top killer .

Edited by klownnection, 23 February 2013 - 02:28 AM.

[Ken Fury]

Just make a new account once you got your 4 Bays filled, and never pay a $.

If you want the convenience of always having the same nickname, access to your Modules/XLs and an easier time leveling chassis the recommended way is too spend all of 14,95$ (about the same value as a good meal at a restaurant) and be the proud owner of 10 additional Mech Bays.
It's not like you get a lot of long term value for a meal anyway.

[Brother MEX]

Tank Boy Ken, on 23 February 2013 - 02:33 AM, said:

Just make a new account once you got your 4 Bays filled, ...

Actually it is better if you start playing Community Warfare !
Starting with RANK 2, you can get additional mechbays from each of the 10 factions ... giving a TOTAL OF UP TO 50 FREE ADDITIONAL MECHBAYS for each account

[MarineTech]

Another thread makes it to K-Town.

What's going on in here?

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhh.

You just replied to a 2 1/2 year old dead post.

Way to go Captain Timely!!!