30 replies to this topic

[Wiggen]

It seems to me that all the talk about the Splat- and LRM-cats (in anticipation of this next patch) could be fixed with one terribly simple step: make missile rounds prone to being cooked off by flamers. a bunch of Flamandos and Flavens (sorry, couldn't help it) would make me think twice about trotting out a build carrying 8 tons of explosive ordnance. It makes the flamer a viable battlefield asset, it's "canonical" for those that care (or so I am told), but most of all it just plain makes sense. High explosives + high heat = boom. Boating any kind of missile would bring with it the risk of being pop-corned from the inside. You could even figure out how to give the flamer-wielding mech (probably a light) the credit for this combustion damage, making them a little more equitable for c-bill grinding.

There may be some very simple reason this wouldn't work that eludes me, but I can't think of it. seems like a fair and simple solution that neither side of the argument could disagree with.

[Team Leader]

Jenner with 6 flamers rolls up behind the other teams LRM support. Flames them. Explodes them. LRM support gone in seconds. QQ commences.

[Bad Karma 308]

With the speed that LRMs and SRMs fly the actual time they would be exposed to the effects of the flame would be measured in milliseconds. Not enough time to heat anything up, especially no where near enough to cook off the explosive payload.

[Thirdstar]

Bad Karma 308, on 17 February 2013 - 09:24 PM, said:

With the speed that LRMs and SRMs fly the actual time they would be exposed to the effects of the flame would be measured in milliseconds. Not enough time to heat anything up, especially no where near enough to cook off the explosive payload.

I don't think that's what he's talking about. He talking about making it so that flamers blow up ammo that's still in the mech. Which is of course a terrible idea.

[Rakashan]

You miss his point. He's not cooking off missiles in flight. He's cooking off the 400 rounds left in the chassis. I.E. he's suggesting that Flamers should actually cause enough heat to overheat and cook off ammo like normal overheating.

[jakucha]

I know this game isn't a full on sim, but would missiles really go off quickly if exposed to a flamethrower? I know tank rounds will, but would like to keep it with some elements of realism

Edited by jakucha, 17 February 2013 - 09:30 PM.

[Wiggen]

Thirdstar, on 17 February 2013 - 09:26 PM, said:

I don't think that's what he's talking about. He talking about making it so that flamers blow up ammo that's still in the mech. Which is of course a terrible idea.

See, I want to know why this would be a terrible idea? I'm not being facetious. You must have a reason to think it would be a terrible idea that I'm not considering. Please expound.

[Bad Karma 308]

AH, I see that indeed I did mis-read his intention.

Still, if high energy laser blast that leave your components glowing red don't cook off stored ammo, flamers sure as hell wouldn't be able to impart that kind of thermal mass.

Edited by Bad Karma 308, 17 February 2013 - 09:34 PM.

[Commander Kobold]

LRMs already have their nerfs they're called hills, ams and ecm. Two of which are available to everyone.

Bad Karma 308, on 17 February 2013 - 09:24 PM, said:

With the speed that LRMs and SRMs fly the actual time they would be exposed to the effects of the flame would be measured in milliseconds. Not enough time to heat anything up, especially no where near enough to cook off the explosive payload.

He's talking about the LRM/SRM ammo in the mech.

[Wiggen]

jakucha, on 17 February 2013 - 09:30 PM, said:

I know this game isn't a full on sim, but would missiles really go off quickly if exposed to a flamethrower? I know tank rounds will, but would like to keep it with some elements of realism

Also, I'm not saying it should happen instantly, but if you can keep a flamer or two targeted on a missile cache for 8-10 seconds (just pulled that time out of the air as a hypothetical) why couldn't you expect some rounds to explode?

[Thirdstar]

jakucha, on 17 February 2013 - 09:30 PM, said:

I know this game isn't a full on sim, but would missiles really go off quickly if exposed to a flamethrower? I know tank rounds will, but would like to keep it with some elements of realism

Then the question comes up, why don't AC rounds similarly cook off.

Regardless, it's not a good idea to make an obtuse balance like this. 1-2 flamer heavy mechs would be able to neuter an entire team. Ammo already explodes when breached, flamers that make ammo explode despite having intact armor will simply make Energy/Ballistic builds the new FOTM.

[Commander Kobold]

Team Leader, on 17 February 2013 - 09:20 PM, said:

Jenner with 6 flamers rolls up behind the other teams LRM support. Flames them. Explodes them. LRM support gone in seconds. QQ commences.

but for a change the QQ would be valid XD

[Moromillas]

Wiggen, on 17 February 2013 - 09:11 PM, said:

It seems to me that all the talk about the Splat- and LRM-cats (in anticipation of this next patch) could be fixed with one terribly simple step: make missile rounds prone to being cooked off by flamers.

This is under the assumption that the damage numbers of LRM/SRM are wrong, or out of whack. You need some evidence that it's wrong first.

[Commander Kobold]

Wiggen, on 17 February 2013 - 09:35 PM, said:

Also, I'm not saying it should happen instantly, but if you can keep a flamer or two targeted on a missile cache for 8-10 seconds (just pulled that time out of the air as a hypothetical) why couldn't you expect some rounds to explode?

it already can if you heat the LRM boat enough, if he fires he'll overheat and shut down if he overrides you keep flaming him and if he shoots again he risks internal damage and/or ammo explosions.

[Wiggen]

Bad Karma 308, on 17 February 2013 - 09:32 PM, said:

AH, I see that indeed I did mis-read his intention.

Still, if high energy laser blast that leave your components glowing red don't cook off stored ammo, flamers sure as hell wouldn't be able to impart that kind of thermal mass.

Have you seen the way a mech glows under thermal vision after a laser blast vs. a flamer? The laser seems to light up the specific panels that it hits. I wouldn't expect this kind of focused heat to be as explosion-causing. Roast a guy with a couple flamers for a good few seconds and his entire mech glows. I would posit that this would tax whatever insulation and heat reduction systems the mech has much more, hence my reasoning a flamer could combust missile rounds more so than a laser.

[Scrawny Cowboy]

I can see this being useful in a hardcore mode, but should only be effective with multiple flamers. As of now, it would be just another excuse to leg-hump slower mechs because of the lack of knock downs.

[Thirdstar]

Omni 13, on 17 February 2013 - 09:38 PM, said:

it already can if you heat the LRM boat enough, if he fires he'll overheat and shut down if he overrides you keep flaming him and if he shoots again he risks internal damage and/or ammo explosions.

And that doesn't actually happen. Flamers are borked and don't raise ambient mech temp more than 5%. They almost literally do nothing as of now.

[jakucha]

Also, I remember reading a devpost that flamethrowers will probably become good critseekers, so we may get a form of this anyway.

[Wiggen]

Moromillas, on 17 February 2013 - 09:38 PM, said:

This is under the assumption that the damage numbers of LRM/SRM are wrong, or out of whack. You need some evidence that it's wrong first.

I don't really think anything is wrong with them. I was just proposing a possible solution since it seemed there was quite a number of people who do. And per above comments asking why AC rounds wouldn't cook off too, it's simply the fact that less combustible material is housed in those rounds vs. a missile with an HE-type payload.

[Dirus Nigh]

Omni 13, on 17 February 2013 - 09:34 PM, said:

LRMs already have their nerfs they're called hills, ams and ecm. Two of which are available to everyone.



He's talking about the LRM/SRM ammo in the mech.

You forgot 180 min range.

Effectively the OP is asking for a weapon that does through armor crits. This would be a bad idea. Ammunition can explode when a pilot overrides an auto shut down due to internal damage from excessive heat. Ammunition is already subject to critical hits on internal damage any way so this really is not needed.

I am all for putting in performance modifiers caused by high heat. Ammunition explosions is not one off them. This would really hamper the playability of the game. It would also turn the flamer into a major grief weapon that would cause no end of friction for the player base.

Edited by Dirus Nigh, 17 February 2013 - 09:49 PM.