31 replies to this topic

[AndyHill]

yashmack, on 15 February 2013 - 01:29 AM, said:

youre correct
the reason that DHS are not 2.0 has been covered a few times by the Devs as well
They explained that having the DHS dissipate 2 heate very second was OP for light mechs
They had Jenners running around loaded to the gills with energy weapons doing non stop alphas and never shutting down, made them ridiculously powerful in test, so they brought it down to 1.4, then it was released to us for play

That's what they said, but it's not really true. The Jenners we have now ARE the dreaded 3 second Jenners of their internal tests. Due to a bug (?) engine double heat sinks have always been true 2.0. Since lights don't have many heat sinks outside the engine, they are almost exactly as heat efficient as they would be on true 2.0s. The difference is really apparent only in heaviest 'mechs.

[Anony Mouse]

I understand that this isn't tabletop and with rate of fire changes come armor points per tonnage changes and a whole slew of tweaks and buffs and nerfs and so on. The rub though is a failure to scale all this stuff. I hope its just the Beta phase blues but as is right now there are several things that are severely out of scale. Theres a common thread throughout all the level 2 tech stuff that balances very well, Look at XL, ENDO and Ferro its weight versus size. So when DHS get massively nerfed for game balance, and I'm fine with the how and why involved in all that, the size becomes an issue. Make DHS two crit slots a piece, 1 crit slot for clans when the time comes.

[Eric darkstar Marr]

How about this we remove the NAME Double Heat Sink and change it to Expanded Heat Sink would that stop the whining? Or would that bring in a whole new why you change the name its not canon people crying like no other.

[Lightfoot]

@OP

They never introduced DHS 2.0 in Closed Beta. They were never deployed for Beta Testing.

PGI Internal Testing showed them to be to powerful at the same time they were deploying a Nerf to Mech Internal Structures to prevent players from running what they called "Nekid Mechs", where the players were only spending 6000 CBills to repair only the CT Armor section, thus reaping 10x normal CBills from matches.

In actuality what was overpowered was the Internal Structure Nerf. Not DHS 2.0. (imho) The Internal Structure Nerf was eventually fixed and we no longer pay for repair and refits.

What has never been Tested or Balanced is Double Heatsinks at 2.0.

PGI says they are too beaucoup. I say if that is so make the Engine DHS 1.4 value and the External DHS 2.0 and we will see what is too beaucoup a value for DHS. I am guessing DHS 1.7 for the current DHS 1.4's is about right.

And guess what, MWO is still in Beta Test mode so let's test the DHS and get them to conform to Battletech style gameplay.

I can remember all the AC Boats in previous MechWarrior games shutting down from overheat, especially with no extra DHS.

That is part of the intrinsic game balance in MechWarrior. Everything overheats your Mech except Machine Guns and Gauss Rifles. Guns have high weight but don't need many heatsinks, Energy has high heat, but low weight/space for many extra heatsinks. All Mechs have Heat Management requirements and right now MWO is Heat Management=OFF for Ballistics.

No one is whining, we are just saying, "Hey, PGI, DHS 1.4 isn't doing Heat Management right".

[MaddMaxx]

Seiga, on 15 February 2013 - 01:24 AM, said:

I didn't know they were different. This isn't immediately obvious anywhere in the game itse--

...oh, look. I just proved your point.

The real question now is, knowing what you do now, will your game play change or will the values you have been taking into account as you build somehow change. Is your Heat Efficiency of 1.25 now somehow different?

P.S. If they did in fact make the DHS's all, say 1.6's, you do realize that would be a major nerf right? The current 1.4 DHS with the Pilot perk become 1.6 DHS with the 10 engines ones still being 2.0.

So no, please leave the GD DHS's alone, if you want to NERF yourself, just pull 2-3 off your ride and consider it done. Thanks. (grumble about hose who would pull random #'s from their arses FTL grumble)

Edited by MaddMaxx, 15 February 2013 - 09:13 AM.

[Mister Blastman]

Just give us the full 2.0 on externals and be done with it. It isn't going to break the game.

[Chunkylad]

I use DHS on everything. Proud user EVEN ON ASSAULT MECHS. If I need more HS, I upgrade the engine and use externals. DHS have never failed me.

Edited by Chunkylad, 15 February 2013 - 09:31 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

sC4r, on 14 February 2013 - 11:05 PM, said:

So yea its getting annoying that this topic (and some others like catapult) show up once several times in month showing off how useless, inneficient, ********** the double heatsinks are

some just rant about it some bring graphs or numbers and some just topic title BRING BACK THE 2.0 DHS

so first of all why arent dhs 2.0
they unce upon a time were 2.0 in closed beta when they were introduced however the way the game went at the time was ridiculous because this change -> this made pretty much every non energy builds worthless like spammers of ERLL, ERPPC/PPC and so on could fire quite effectively and if they boated smaller energy weapons like ML, MPL they could fire them constanly pretty much

and now my numbers regarding dhs 1.4
first of all i have no idea wheter engine are 2.0 or 1.4... but most assume its like that so i will trust you
what EVERYONE forgets when they pull out numbers is pilot skills -> heat efficiency and coolrun

the first one doesnt help in heat dissipitation however still helps with the highest heat threshold

the second one is the one that helps doing this so once you unlock it your dhs will go from 1.4 to 1.505... yea still not 2.0 and unhappy? ok you know what this skill has second tier -> once you unlock 3 basics so the maximum dhs efficiency will be 1.61 and lets not forget about engine heat sinks those will be 2.3

so lets lets say now i have hmmm catapult 20 total DHS with 2x errppc
so the heat dissipitation for it will be 10*2.3 + 10*1.61=23+16.1=39.1

39.1 for 20 heatsings??? i dont know if you are good at math but if i recall 20*2=40

tl dr;
if you read this you will get that the pilot skills will bring 1.4DHS to 2.0DHS

No Sir they were not 2.0 in Closed Beta. I was there when they came out under strength, with the disclaimer they would be to powerful. thank you try again!

[MustrumRidcully]

Eric darkstar Marr, on 15 February 2013 - 05:48 AM, said:

How about this we remove the NAME Double Heat Sink and change it to Expanded Heat Sink would that stop the whining? Or would that bring in a whole new why you change the name its not canon people crying like no other.

Still doesn't explain why Enhanced or Expanded Heat Sinks produce 0.2 Dissipation and +2 capacity inside the engine,and 0.14 and 1.4 outside. It doesn't solve the weight class balancing problem.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

sC4r, on 14 February 2013 - 11:05 PM, said:

they unce upon a time were 2.0 in closed beta when they were introduced however the way the game went at the time was ridiculous because this change -> this made pretty much every non energy builds worthless like spammers of ERLL, ERPPC/PPC and so on could fire quite effectively and if they boated smaller energy weapons like ML, MPL they could fire them constanly pretty much

Not true. DHS were never all 2.0s. When they were introduced, they were 1.0s in the engine and 2.0s outside it. Then they changed it to 2.0s in the engine and 1.4s outside and it was pretty good, but it gave lights a bit of an advantage. They went through a few iterations where they kept messing up either the in-engine or out-of-engine DHS values, until finally they made them all 1.4s, but there was never a time when both sets of DHS were true 2.0 DHS.