57 replies to this topic

[Radical eliminator]

Just like LRMs have a minimum range, SRMs logically need the same if not more so, as their warheads are even more powerful!

At the moment we have game destroying stalkers and catapults hug a target at 1 meter and alpha, not taking any damage themselves at all! By not having a minimum range the weapons are grossly overpowered as it is easy to get this close to a target in the middle of a fight and do so intact.

The game has evolved to the point of "hug the enemy till they explode"!

[sycocys]

The rather short max range really hurts them, and once players start grasping the concept of "stay outside their range" you'll see builds that effectively force them into carrying a more diverse set up.

[focuspark]

Really? What would that minimum range be? 20m? 50m? 100m? Let's just go with 20m for a second. If SRM (by the way, SRM is an acronym which doesn't get pluralized because the M, which stands for missile, gets pluralized to "missiles" without the need for the 's') were given a minimum range of 20m, they'd only have a 250m effective range; and since their spread is dictated by their distance flow to impact, there would be no feasible way for pilots to do pin point damage even with Artemis.

Basically, you're suggesting taking a mediocre weapon and making it slightly sub-par to counter a ridiculously slow mech from ramming you and unloading all of its weapons? I don't think so.

How about this: stand back and put a PPC in the Stalker's face. Actually check weapon loadouts on Assault mechs and if they have SRM stay 300m+ away from them at all times. If you can't aim unless you're within 300m, then you need to practice more.

The entire point of SRM is a deterrent to face huggers... so the alternative is you could put a few on your mech.

[Radical eliminator]

focuspark, on 15 February 2013 - 07:14 AM, said:

Really? What would that minimum range be? 20m? 50m? 100m? Let's just go with 20m for a second. If SRM (by the way, SRM is an acronym which doesn't get pluralized because the M, which stands for missile, gets pluralized to "missiles" without the need for the 's') were given a minimum range of 20m, they'd only have a 250m effective range; and since their spread is dictated by their distance flow to impact, there would be no feasible way for pilots to do pin point damage even with Artemis.

Basically, you're suggesting taking a mediocre weapon and making it slightly sub-par to counter a ridiculously slow mech from ramming you and unloading all of its weapons? I don't think so.

You are manufacturing all your "facts" here!

SRM are grossly overpowered and not at all a mediocre weapon you are writing here. SRM fits generally kill an assault in 3 volleys, sometimes they need 1 shutdown to accomplish that, but the enemy is disarmed after the 2nd volley anyway. There is nothing an opposing mech can do to counter once a fight gets up to this point.

And stalkers and Catapults are all but slow, the SRM builds go 60k/h or a little more and are among the fastest builds in their class! Plus there is plenty of room to hide on all current maps. They just hide behind an atlas or some building and when targets are occupied/hot, they run straight to them safely and have a kill!

It sounds to me (and you made this personal with your opening insults) you are not wanting your favorite overpowered toy to be hurt!

focuspark, on 15 February 2013 - 07:14 AM, said:

How about this: stand back and put a PPC in the Stalker's face. Actually check weapon loadouts on Assault mechs and if they have SRM stay 300m+ away from them at all times. If you can't aim unless you're within 300m, then you need to practice more.

We do not have radar, and it is easy to not be noticed at all on most maps due to abundant cover and line of sight mechanics. Let alone additional ECM on top of this. Plus you cannot stay 300m away most of the time and still have LOS. Let alone control the range, walking backwards vs a fast charging SRM boat going forwards.

focuspark, on 15 February 2013 - 07:14 AM, said:

The entire point of SRM is a deterrent to face huggers... so the alternative is you could put a few on your mech.

This must be your most laughable and dumb comment yet as it flies in the face of reality and logic alike. Why on earth would a non SRM boat want to face hug? They only mechs that want to get so close are those with SRM themselves! SRM are thus not a deterrent to face hug, but they promote it!

Quite frankly I am getting sick of dumb or trolling people like you online. Your a disgrace to the human race, everywhere!

Edited by Radical eliminator, 15 February 2013 - 07:50 AM.

[focuspark]

<snicker>

I'm what? Lol. You're espousing opinion and calling it fact - who's manufacturing what here?

So basically, somebody out played you and you're mad? Look man, if you can't see a Stalker behind an Atlas... I don't know what to tell ya. Basic rule here: if you're not setup to brawl, don't get so close. If you're getting ambushed, think about why that might be and don't let yourself get ambushed.

The fact is: unless you're with in 50m SRM do incredible spread, limiting their punching power to less than a medium laser. Artemis will take that range to about 100m. If SRM are required to be used at a longer range, they become mostly useless and will disappear - if the range is only annoying it'll have zero effect on combat.

I'm a laser guy these days. I did the SRM think back when I was ramping up on CPLT - it was fun, but hardly over powered.

Best to know what you're talking about before coming the forums all angry and full of rage.

[Radical eliminator]

sycocys, on 15 February 2013 - 06:58 AM, said:

The rather short max range really hurts them, and once players start grasping the concept of "stay outside their range" you'll see builds that effectively force them into carrying a more diverse set up.

Problems with your reasoning:

* They are much faster then competing mechs
* You don't know there there until they suddenly are and have a lock, but by then it will be too late!
* Current maps and LOS mechanics force you to be rather close, near their max striking range anyway.

I am sure that a well tuned and skilled long range team with communications and proper scouts will defeat a straightforward SRM rush team. But you have to admit that is not the kind of play most of us will see in this game online.

[Mechteric]

SSRMs just need a normal flight path with seek assistance is all, not this ultra super seeking turn on a dime thing we have now.

[Radical eliminator]

focuspark, on 15 February 2013 - 07:42 AM, said:

<snicker>

I'm what? Lol. You're espousing opinion and calling it fact - who's manufacturing what here?

Forgot what you wrote already and for convenience ignored all the facts i wrote too?

focuspark, on 15 February 2013 - 07:42 AM, said:

So basically, somebody out played you and you're mad? Look man, if you can't see a Stalker behind an Atlas... I don't know what to tell ya. Basic rule here: if you're not setup to brawl, don't get so close. If you're getting ambushed, think about why that might be and don't let yourself get ambushed.

No you don't see it at all, as it is behind a corner, but with an atlas in front to get some fight started. There is no way of knowing it is there unless you commit to the fight. But then its too late and 300m range is absolutely nothing on the current maps, you often need to get closer just to get LOS and be able to shoot!

focuspark, on 15 February 2013 - 07:42 AM, said:

The fact is: unless you're with in 50m SRM do incredible spread, limiting their punching power to less than a medium laser. Artemis will take that range to about 100m. If SRM are required to be used at a longer range, they become mostly useless and will disappear - if the range is only annoying it'll have zero effect on combat.


I'm a laser guy these days. I did the SRM think back when I was ramping up on CPLT - it was fun, but hardly over powered.

Try them again, i did. They are hard hitting even from 100m without Artemis, compared to other weapons such as even large lasers! I was amazed on how much damage they do when i tried it!

focuspark, on 15 February 2013 - 07:42 AM, said:

Best to know what you're talking about before coming the forums all angry and full of rage.

Take your own advice, you been wrong on all your arguments and the facts are:

* The mechs that can boat them, are FAST!
* The tactics you preach don't work with the ranges on current maps!
* You got it backwards when you said that SRM prevent face hugging! They are the weapon of choice when it comes to promoting it. Even you implicitly confirmed that with your reply.

And coming down on me about spelling errors followed by anti-facts is really an insult to get mad about. That is what i call trolling!

[sycocys]

srm's don't lock, and there are a plethora of ways to hit them before they get close or do the same guerrilla techniques and rarely ever run into them in the first place.

If you engage before you know what you are engaging, or even take a guess/watch what they fire (or don't fire if you are out of their range) you are applying poor tactics to your strategy. Can you get snuck up on? Yes, but you can just as effectively do the same to any other mech on the field or pound them down from 5-800 meters.

Get snuck up on by a 5LL, 4 ac5 or dual ac20/gauss machine and get annialated are they suddenly op because you got caught with your pants down?

End of the day better strategy trumps srm boat.

[focuspark]

Radical eliminator, on 15 February 2013 - 08:10 AM, said:

Take your own advice, you been wrong on all your arguments and the facts are:

* The mechs that can boat them, are FAST!
* The tactics you preach don't work with the ranges on current maps!
* You got it backwards when you said that SRM prevent face hugging! They are the weapon of choice when it comes to promoting it. Even you implicitly confirmed that with your reply.

And coming down on me about spelling errors followed by anti-facts is really an insult to get mad about. That is what i call trolling!

Disagreeing with you is not trolling, it's disagreeing.

I build all of my mechs to be as fast as possible. Speed and positioning is more important than firepower for the most part. Stalkers are never fast. Yes, it's true the current set of maps are really well designed with long corridors, open spaces, and a lot of closed in areas for ambushing people. If you dislike being ambushed, stay out of those areas.

As for tactics not working, I recently took down a CPLT-A1 with 6xSRM6 in my CDA-M3 (LBX + 3xML) because I kept out of his range and kept sniping at his legs. It took a while, but I survived to win the match. You claim to know that the tactics do not work, but I have personal experience that says they do.

I personally believe the only OP things about SRM is that they get too many shots per ton of ammo.

[Adridos]

Giving short range missiles a minimum range...

As much as I hated the moment when a splattcat cored me from 100% in one shot, making an exclusively short range weapon a gimp at short range is too much.

[M3atloaf]

Radical eliminator, on 15 February 2013 - 06:00 AM, said:

Just like LRMs have a minimum range, SRMs logically need the same if not more so, as their warheads are even more powerful!

At the moment we have game destroying stalkers and catapults hug a target at 1 meter and alpha, not taking any damage themselves at all! By not having a minimum range the weapons are grossly overpowered as it is easy to get this close to a target in the middle of a fight and do so intact.

The game has evolved to the point of "hug the enemy till they explode"!

TL:DR - I'm constantly out of position and have SRM cats and Stalkers in my face 1-2 shotting me all the time and I don't like it. Please nerf the game so I don't have to learn skill, placement, strategy, or tactics. Removing heat would be nice too as they always seem to kill me while I'm overheated from shooting them.

[Werewolf486 ScorpS]

Splash damage, no minimum range.

[sycocys]

To help you out against the stalker boat build here's a pro tip - Shoot it's legs. If they want it to go faster they need to sacrifice armor.

Don't stand in front of it, it's got an atrocious torso twist and a massive blindspot where you can shred it from if you get stuck up close - the blind spot is so bad any decent atlas pilot can stay in it like he was a light mech on an atlas.

Against the cats - shoot their ears off every-time you see the variant with ears on the field. Done deal, this mech is useless without them.

The various other builds all have weak points as well, except maybe the srm6 atlas with a standard engine, but he's still slow and probably sacrificed other firepower to keep the srm6s with enough ammo to do any real amount of damage.

Finding cockpit locations is the ultimate deterrent, start hitting that and they won't be coming right at you.

[focuspark]

Werewolf486, on 15 February 2013 - 08:30 AM, said:

Splash damage, no minimum range.

Wouldn't that make an already, supposedly, over powered weapon system more powerful?

[Radical eliminator]

Disagreeing with facts and packaging it in insulting statements is in fact trolling, but that aside:

When you say stalkers are never fast and then tell me a story about you beating one in a CDA-M3...what does that tell?

Speed is relative! To anything assault and most things that are heavy, a Stalker is really fast. There no way around that and comparing it with a medium to say it is slow is just pointless. You have to take into account that to control range and hit the stalker in LOS, you will need to face it and thus walk backwards, reducing your top speed a lot, and have room to do so!

As for your comment on what you think is overpowered about them. Maybe, but I can't oversee exactly how much of a difference a rounds per ton change would really make an impact. Maybe a little less boating, but given the damage they do now, even 1 less SRM6 is hardly gona change things much.

[CancR]

Srms are a part of the problem why long time MW fans call this game 'Mechassault of duty'. Because of the small maps, every one just running up to each other anyway and m1'ing all people are looking at is how to get the highest damage rating , and SRMs being way over what they should be are the quickest.

It's one of these problems that causes player segregation. When ELO is put in, the players that run up and m1 are going to have their elo drop dramatically but the players that earned a higher ELO and will snipe, use some lrms, and move around the map and not meet in the middle and win the m1 war. the question of segregation comes in if players will ever break that boundry of trying to win the m1 war, or learning mech roles, and playing everything from quake at pro level to UT, Rainbow 6, MW4, Tribes, and tf2, all my experience tells me that it will be a slim margin that will convert.

Devs should be taking steps to make sure every weapon has a acceptable risk/reward ratio. Right now there are allot of things that just simply don't.

[Radical eliminator]

Adridos, on 15 February 2013 - 08:29 AM, said:

Giving short range missiles a minimum range...

As much as I hated the moment when a splattcat cored me from 100% in one shot, making an exclusively short range weapon a gimp at short range is too much.

I know how it sounds, but i provided an alternative....feedback damage (explosion/splash). Some splash damage for shooting from 0, to 20m, or maye even 50m is not going to make the weapon pointless, at least not to a stalker or a catapult. It will still deal its current damage, but it might just prevent face hugging where the target cannot move due to being obstructed.

Splash damage might also be a way to disperse tight groups, which kind of fits the spread property the weapon has and makes it in fact more powerful at its max range and more dangerous to lights and mediums. Thus it wouldn't be a 100% clear cut nerf and maybe even a buff but in another more fun way!

Edited by Radical eliminator, 15 February 2013 - 08:41 AM.

[sycocys]

You mean you can't control you distance by running forward and turning your torso sideways effectively creating an extremely adjustable strafing range?

Are you intentionally limiting your maneuvers or have you not played much yet?

[gamingogre]

SRMs are working just fine. The range and spread compensate nicely for the DPS.