163 replies to this topic

[Pinselborste]

solution to the inbalance would be to balance the tech and have both fight with equal numbers.

balancing overpowered tech with uneven teams is bad.

if clan tech stays overpowered, it will end up with majority of people playing clans.That will result in extreme que times for clan players and the game dieing in some months.

[Mister Blastman]

Khobai, on 15 February 2013 - 08:07 AM, said:

It will be.

Imagine a Clan Assault with x3 CERPPCs and a CGauss, with enough heatsinks to use them almost non-stop. Thats 60 damage that can be pinpointed in one location from across the map. That will kill almost anything in two volleys to the center torso.

One possible solution is to give IS hardened armor though. Which exists in 3050.

But in general I think they have to do something about the pinpoint aiming on weapons because thats what really screwed up game balance. The armor values are based on random hit locations not aiming.

Convergence! I've been harping about this since June with no solution yet.

[Roland]

STRONG LIKE BEAR, on 15 February 2013 - 09:19 AM, said:

its going to be hilarious when a couple catapults just annihilate entire squads of clan mechs

Yes, the clans will cower before the might of the IS LRM's, which are just flat out inferior to clan weaponry.

[Sifright]

Roland, on 15 February 2013 - 09:21 AM, said:

Yes, the clans will cower before the might of the IS LRM's, which are just flat out inferior to clan weaponry.

no he means A1 - SRM cats are going to smoke clan mechs.

Which to be fair if the clans are running stock it's probably true.

[Jacmac]

Wolf Ender, on 15 February 2013 - 07:27 AM, said:

Also from Sarna.net Regular DHS - 3 crits Clan DHS - 2 crits

If this is the case, why the heck didn't PGI make DHS 2.0 and 3 crit slots???

[Joseph Mallan]

dal10, on 15 February 2013 - 08:29 AM, said:

why does everyone ignore me...

Either it's because we already know what you are saying or you are wrong.

[Steven Dixon]

While clan ballistic weapons are only a little better than IS ones, their missiles are quite a bit better and their energy weapons are also a lot better, imagine PPCs with 50% more damage (plus they have much better heat sinks). I am really interested how they are going to balance the clans.

[Pinselborste]

Steven Dixon, on 15 February 2013 - 09:45 AM, said:

While clan ballistic weapons are only a little better than IS ones, their missiles are quite a bit better and their energy weapons are also a lot better, imagine PPCs with 50% more damage (plus they have much better heat sinks). I am really interested how they are going to balance the clans.

hopefully not the TT way.

Edited by Pinselborste, 15 February 2013 - 09:47 AM.

[Mister Blastman]

Steven Dixon, on 15 February 2013 - 09:45 AM, said:

While clan ballistic weapons are only a little better than IS ones, their missiles are quite a bit better and their energy weapons are also a lot better, imagine PPCs with 50% more damage (plus they have much better heat sinks). I am really interested how they are going to balance the clans.

Balance? Just let Clans be Clans. The IS stravags will learn to adapt and conquer or be purified.

[Rakashan]

Look. The devs have followed TT canon pretty closely which includes imbalanced Star vs. 2 Lance drops. Why, in the name of Garth, would you ever think that they're going to put Clan mechs in side-by-side and equal to IS mechs? We know it would be imbalanced. They know it would be imbalanced. TT canon says it is imbalanced.

We don't know what they are going to do to try and balance them but those of you whining preemptively here, please... Just go take a few drinks, smoke a bowl and relax. The world is full of things worth worrying about and this is most definitely *not* one of them. Wait until they announce how Clan stuff will work and then give it a try before you claim the sky is falling.

[Roland]

Sifright, on 15 February 2013 - 09:36 AM, said:

no he means A1 - SRM cats are going to smoke clan mechs.

O RLY?
The 100 lrm MadCat says lol to that.

Or, for extra lolz, it could just pack on a billion SSRM 6's. Basically, a spatcat, but without the need to aim.

[FupDup]

Rakashan, on 15 February 2013 - 09:52 AM, said:

Look. The devs have followed TT canon pretty closely...

1. TT was played from bird's eye view (let you see the entire battlefield all at once, including the exact positions of your enemies)
2. TT had turns (not real-time)
3. Some weapons here have different heat
4. Some weapons here have different damage
5. Some weapons here have different ammo per ton
6. TT let you control more than one unit at a time
7. Convergence
8. DHS
9. Double armor
10. ECM
11. Dice rolls
12. No BV here
13. Hardpoints
14. Modules
15. Pilot Trees
16. Laser beam durations
17. Streak mechanics
18. Anything else that I might have missed

Edited by FupDup, 15 February 2013 - 10:10 AM.

[Rakashan]

Seriously? You're not really that dense, are you?

The devs are designing a real-time shooter. That has some prerequisites like not having turns, not being a top-down birds-eye and not using dice.

The weapons elements, armor and DHS that you mention were all initially implemented with numbers taken directly from TT and have been scaled since then. You can see the discussions here in the forums as they did it and why.

ECM actually draws from canon but includes a lot of optional rules and it is the best argument for your case which gives you one point. As I said in the first place though (and you chose to ignore) nothing you could have said up front would have changed the way they implemented ECM. It's not worth worrying about and amazingly the devs have done a good job modifying and interpreting TT canon to get a balanced shooter. Maybe you should give them the benefit of the doubt for a change.

Pilot Tree, Modules, etc. are a good compromise for providing new functionality, expanding the shooter aspects of the games and offering some of the optional rules from TT. The zoom module makes no sense when you are abstracting the entire pilot role. Sensor decay is not applicable in the strategic mode. 360 degree targetting same deal.

Edited by Rakashan, 15 February 2013 - 10:42 AM.

[Joe Mallad]

STRONG LIKE BEAR, on 15 February 2013 - 09:19 AM, said:

its going to be hilarious when a couple catapults just annihilate entire squads of clan mechs

or it will be just as hilarious when a clan mech with 80 LRMs spits them in a Srm cats face at point blank range and obliterates it . Or a clan mech with duel UAC 20s does 80 points of damage to that SRM cat and it goes boom

[Khobai]

Its going to be hilarious when one madcat annihilates a couple catapults

[Hawkwings]

Clan LRMs are going to be the single weapon that breaks the game more than anything else. I'm just gonna call it right now.

[StalaggtIKE]

Khobai, on 15 February 2013 - 07:57 AM, said:

Not really. With no min range you can direct fire the LRMs without a lock and still do massive damage. Which is exactly why Clan LRMs will have to have a min range for balance reasons.

Its the same old problem... PGI didnt want to balance missiles properly so they just threw ECM at it. What PGI needs to do is balance missiles WITHOUT ECM and then ECM should just have no effect on missiles.

So true. After a while all bandaids go bad.

[Helbourne]

Screw balancing, I am so tired of reading about balancing this with that. Clan weapons are supposed to be better than IS weapons in every way. If Clan = IS then there is no point to Clan. Clan LRMs have no minium range and that is how it needs to be. Just wait for Streak LRMs... these forums will just flood with tears.

Remember quanity is a quality all of its own. In other words IS mechs can take out Clan mechs when IS out number Clan.

p.s. Just make Clan NPCs, oh wait... that would require single player / co-op mode. Can't have that? Leave them out.

Edited by Helbourne, 15 February 2013 - 11:09 AM.

[Colddawg]

Clan ultra ac-20 is my response to the first post.

To everything else, this is NOT TT. If you want TT there's a game being made called Mechwarrior:Tactics.
Also people seem to be forgetting that there are hard points here so it won't be a matter of how many ssrm-6's you can fit on the Mad Dog because they'll probably *** that in the butt immediately.

Edited by Colddawg, 15 February 2013 - 11:18 AM.

[FupDup]

Rakashan, on 15 February 2013 - 10:39 AM, said:

Seriously? You're not really that dense, are you?

The devs are designing a real-time shooter. That has some prerequisites like not having turns, not being a top-down birds-eye and not using dice.

The weapons elements, armor and DHS that you mention were all initially implemented with numbers taken directly from TT and have been scaled since then. You can see the discussions here in the forums as they did it and why.

ECM actually draws from canon but includes a lot of optional rules and it is the best argument for your case which gives you one point. As I said in the first place though (and you chose to ignore) nothing you could have said up front would have changed the way they implemented ECM. It's not worth worrying about and amazingly the devs have done a good job modifying and interpreting TT canon to get a balanced shooter. Maybe you should give them the benefit of the doubt for a change.

Pilot Tree, Modules, etc. are a good compromise for providing new functionality, expanding the shooter aspects of the games and offering some of the optional rules from TT. The zoom module makes no sense when you are abstracting the entire pilot role. Sensor decay is not applicable in the strategic mode. 360 degree targetting same deal.

I never said I disliked any of those changes listed in my previous post (most of which I support, actually). I also didn't say anything against the devs. All I did was list a considerable number of things that have differed from canon (many of which for good reasons).