53 replies to this topic

[Gaan Cathal]

The only way this ever works is when the MC you purchase with CBills is bought from players. I.e. there is an exchange where players can trade their MC for CBills. PWE games do this successfully in the F2P arena, and it's a close cousin to Eve's plex-trading mechanic. The fundamental point of it is that the company still sells the RMT currency to a player. It's also a closed economy so there's little reason to bot it beyond whatever reason there was to bot the game in the first place.

That said:

The PWE stable have a huge amount more real-money content than MWO, and they are built on the classic MMO model. MWO is not an MMO, it is an arena shooter and the dynamics are entirely different. The real effects of an exchange on this model won't be apparent until it's tried, and a niche game with a troubled beta history is not the game to try it with. It's worth noting that PWE do not use this currency exchange model in Blacklight: Retribution, their contribution to the F2P Arena Shooter genre, and for anything else you want to say about them, PWE know how to get money out of F2P systems. If they don't think it'll work for an arena shooter, I think PGI/IGP are probably best following their lead.

[sycocys]

While I am concerned about the botting, I do think that PGI does a good job responding to reports when they are sent in because I don't see much of it or suicide farming around anymore. The people that are playing seem to actually want to play the game.

That in mind I don't think it would be a terrible idea, but it would also need to be very expensive to exchange, 10-50 million+ would probably be a better place to start, it needs to be very slow to grind this way in order to encourage MC purchases to make up any difference. Strong builds, founders/heroes + premium time would make anything lower a constant circle of free MC.

[focuspark]

Purchasing of MC directly from PGIGP with non-real money would be a terrible idea and WOULD lead to farming quickly.

Better solution: create an exchange that allows players to trade MC for C-Bills. To make this work, all non-hero mechs would have to be purchasable only via C-Bills. Players who have C-Bills and want MC can then trade with players who have money and want C-Bills. Players with money purchase MC from PGIGP (win) and trade for C-Bills (win-win).

All real money flows to PGIGP (so no for-profit farmers will appear), all players get access to MC to purchase good/services removing the "this game is a P2W farce!" comments, and people who would rather pay money than grind can do so while knowing their money is helping another player as well.

This is what is known as a win-win-win suggestion.

[Wildstreak]

Buying something like MC with C-Bills is not what I have ever known a MMO to do, don't know them all but the ones I do don't allow it. There is only so many things that can be given for free.

In the future, I would rather see some kind of skill-reward system that gives a small amount of MC and other benefits like:
- Kill with Headshots (50) - Title: Sniper
- Kill with Headshots (100) - 10MC
- Kill bigger Mechs with a light (100) - Title: Giant Slayer
- Kill bigger Mechs with a light (200) - 5MC

Things like that.

[ohtochooseaname]

Although I like the idea of buying MC from other players, this sort of exchange is not really needed in this game. There's really only two things you can only acquire with MC: hero mechs, and vanity items (camo spec's hula girls, etc), neither of which will give you a game-winning advantage. The other thing you can do with MC is exchange XP in GXP, which is shorting the grinding process, so it doesn't really give you anything you can't otherwise acquire. This is very different from other F2P games, where paying out money gives you huge competitive advantages. Due to this difference, there's no real need for an exchange, IMO.

[Donas]

Gaan Cathal, on 18 February 2013 - 05:43 AM, said:

The PWE stable have a huge amount more real-money content than MWO, and they are built on the classic MMO model. MWO is not an MMO, it is an arena shooter and the dynamics are entirely different.

~parsed~

It's worth noting that PWE do not use this currency exchange model in Blacklight: Retribution, their contribution to the F2P Arena Shooter genre, and for anything else you want to say about them, PWE know how to get money out of F2P systems. If they don't think it'll work for an arena shooter, I think PGI/IGP are probably best following their lead.

These are both really good points.

Edited by Donas, 18 February 2013 - 10:23 AM.

[Adrienne Vorton]

Hotthedd, on 16 February 2013 - 06:27 AM, said:

The conversion rate would have to be excruciatingly low for it to not cost PGI money.

Something like 1,000,000 C-bills to 1 MC.

seriously? with an exchange rate like that you could just forget about it and trash the whole idea^^ 500million for a cheap colour? this would be a mechanic that is there,but wasted programming time,cause NOONE woulduse it..

btw... i WOULD just trash the idea to be honest... it´sprobably better to give some "MC rewards" at certain milestones, as you can get a few goldcoins for achieving special steps in some games... enough to get a taste of what MC can do,but few enough to encourage purchases^^

Edited by Adrienne Vorton, 18 February 2013 - 01:54 PM.

[Hotthedd]

Adrienne Vorton, on 18 February 2013 - 01:52 PM, said:

seriously? with an exchange rate like that you could just forget about it and trash the whole idea^^ 500million for a cheap colour? this would be a mechanic that is there,but wasted programming time,cause NOONE woulduse it..

btw... i WOULD just trash the idea to be honest... it´sprobably better to give some "MC rewards" at certain milestones, as you can get a few goldcoins for achieving special steps in some games... enough to get a taste of what MC can do,but few enough to encourage purchases^^

Let us assume that MW:O will be around for years.
I, for example, have been playing since the beginning of December. (2.5 months)
I have 5 mastered 'mechs, all the XP I could use, all modules, ~25k in unused GXP, and 90 million C-bills.
To prevent farming, 1,000,000C-bills : 1 MC might not even be enough.

[focuspark]

Hotthedd, on 18 February 2013 - 03:53 PM, said:

Let us assume that MW:O will be around for years.
I, for example, have been playing since the beginning of December. (2.5 months)
I have 5 mastered 'mechs, all the XP I could use, all modules, ~25k in unused GXP, and 90 million C-bills.
To prevent farming, 1,000,000C-bills : 1 MC might not even be enough.

do you do anything besides play MW:O?

[Valorcalls]

www.perfectworld.com

That is all i have to say on this topic.

The way they do it works great.

I play STO and Champion's online.

[Hotthedd]

focuspark, on 18 February 2013 - 04:59 PM, said:

do you do anything besides play MW:O?

You sound like my wife

[Alekzander Smirnoff]

Check it, time frame POV.

Lets say it takes you roughly, eight minutes per match which includes all time between pushing the launch button and being able to once again launch a new match afterwards. Plus you must average 100,000 a round.

At an exchange rate of 100,000:1 it takes you 6000 matches to buy a Pretty Baby. Six thousand matches at eight minutes will take you around 48,000 minutes. Fourty eight thousand minutes is roughly 33 and 1/3 days of 24/7 play. Factor in eight hours of sleep and maybe one hour to eat/poop all day and your up to about 47 days.

I'm ok with this exchange rate.

[Sean von Steinike]

NO!

[Rawrshuga]

I dunno. This suggestion is valid. Not to take anything away from those that pay, but why take things away from those that play? Not everyone in this game is going to have a credit card or necessarily the financial freedom (I said freedom, not ability) to pay for MCs. However if the exchange rate is high enough, then those that play often enough ought to get that choice. Why? Because they're contributing as well. Non-paying players push up the numbers of players and played hours that determines a game's popularity and as a result affects the company's ability to interest investors and show that it's a worthwhile product. So they do also contribute to the success of the game, though a little bit more indirectly.

Sure there is the potential issue of farming, not like it hasn't been going on already, but even those drive up the numbers. It's irritating from a player standpoint but the use of bots, cheats, hacks, etc. are a clear sign of a game's growing popularity. However, the balance has to be handled very, very carefully.

Or maybe we make it a bit more ***-for-tat. How about if a suggestion from a player has been implemented in-game, that players gets some MCs for helping the developers out?

[Geadron Kane]

I would prefer that mech variants bought with MC should refund MC when sold, not c-billz. When unlocking modules and skills you need to be buying and selling variants. I have bought 4 bays but with each mech requiring 3 variants it is hard to keep them all.

[Eddrick]

Terran123rd, on 16 February 2013 - 06:21 AM, said:

http://www.penny-arc...crotransactions

The video made sense. But, there is also the below problem that, I feel, is likly.

Rauchsauger, on 18 February 2013 - 12:31 AM, said:

As soon as they are able to convert Cbills to MC there will be bots / farmers

Keeping Bots and Farmers is the responsability of the in game moderators (AKA GM or Game Master). However, if they can not keep Bots and Farmers under controle. There is a big problem that effects everyone.

[Valorcalls]

All i have to say to farmers is this:

In Star Trek Online, YOU DO NOT SEE FARMERS.

Why?

Everyone "farming" is grinding **** for themselves, or to sell **** to buy **** for themselves. The source of zen in the game is from dilithium, which can be refined at 8000 a day (9000 for "gold" members) and is seperate from the rest of the resources in the game (which there are to many of).

Also, If some poor fool wants to exchange his MC for C-bills that someone else will do the reverse of?

Who the **** cares? at the end of the day the devs end up with the same amount of the money. How?

CAUSE THE CONVERSION IS FROM THE POOR FOOL WHO ALREADY PAID THEM MONEY AND WANTED C-BILLS.

Who are we to tell the poor fools in the game how to spend the real money them spend?

Seriously, I'd love a 1million-1 ratio for MC. I would never pay them again, but someone would pay them and id trade for the MC they paid for.

Unless they do another Founders type program. Then its **** AND TAKE MY MONEY FOR YO ANIMATED STUFFS. I was mad i didn't have the extra money for the legendary founders pack.

[Rauchsauger]

Eddrick, on 18 February 2013 - 10:49 PM, said:

The video made sense. But, there is also the below problem that, I feel, is likly.

Keeping Bots and Farmers is the responsability of the in game moderators (AKA GM or Game Master). However, if they can not keep Bots and Farmers under controle. There is a big problem that effects everyone.

This is not true. Also the best way to keep farmers/bots under control is to have no mechanic they can abuse.

[Rauchsauger]

Valorcalls, on 18 February 2013 - 11:03 PM, said:

Also, If some poor fool wants to exchange his MC for C-bills that someone else will do the reverse of?

Who the **** cares? at the end of the day the devs end up with the same amount of the money. How?

CAUSE THE CONVERSION IS FROM THE POOR FOOL WHO ALREADY PAID THEM MONEY AND WANTED C-BILLS.

Who are we to tell the poor fools in the game how to spend the real money them spend?

Seriously, I'd love a 1million-1 ratio for MC. I would never pay them again, but someone would pay them and id trade for the MC they paid for.

Your logic is flawed. First of all the OP advertised no trade between players - just that you could change your own cbills to MC and vice versa.

[Alekzander Smirnoff]

As I noted above, it would take 45 days of solid grinding (16hrs a day w/ an average of 100,000+ cbills a match) to generate enough cbills to convert at a 100,000:1 ratio to buy a Pretty Baby (as an example). I think that's a fair trade.